VF5 Ver.C Kage Command List

Looks like mistake in the commandlist..
The second hit of Shippu /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif appears linear in ver C.!

Or maybe this is a hitbox issue. Set CPU to do a DM and do Shippu PK.. CPU will evade both hits regardless of direction. I wonder why nobody noticed this before.

 

Maybe because you are one of the kind? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Interesting find! I was thinking it was half circular.

 

The list is missing Shippujin PP second hit crouch stagger also.

 

I tested it on Wolf. I had them evade away from the screen.

First I go to Shippu from elbow. Leaving me in Closed Stance in relation to my opponent.

This means opponent evades toward Kage's back.[/size]

vs. Wolf
- He evades the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and the follow-up low /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

Second, I went to Shippuujin from neutral position with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif this puts me in open stance in relation to the opponent.

This means that the opponent evades toward Kage's front.[/size]

vs. Wolf
- He evades the first punch, the low kick connects.

<u>Conclusion: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif from Shippu ends with a Low-sweep that has to be evaded towards Kage's back.</u>









...but wait let's try it on another character, let's use Blaze.

<u>Condition 1: Evade towards back.</u>
El Blaze
- He evades the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif and the follow-up low /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
<u>Condition 2: Evade towards front.</u>
vs. El Blaze
- He evades the first punch and the low kick!!!

Wait...what? What's going on?

<u>Conclusion: VF5 is teh GhEy![/size]</u>

Anyways, i randomly picked the characters. I would test them on all the characters but I'm late for work. I'll do it later.

 

Okay I was able to test all the characters with the above condition.

<u>Conclusion:</u>
The /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif on Shippuu /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is 100% a low half-circular attack against Jeffry, Wolf, and Akira.

80% of the time it works against Lau. I'm not sure but it may have something to do with the speed of the input, perhaps a little delayed.

The opponent has to evade towards Kage's back.

It's linear against all other characters. There's one thing I noticed also; if the other characters evade towards Kage's front, the sweep whiffs and results in a failed evade animation.

 

So it seems that it was supposed to be half-circular for all of the characters, but something (hitboxes?) caused it to fail to work properly, right? Thus resulting in not hitting most of the characters evading in the wrong direction, right?

 

That pretty much what happens. In some cases, you can even see the low-sweep go through the limbs of the characters but does not register as a hit. Lion, and Eileen comes to mind.

 

I set the CPU to do "Defensive Move Back" which basically makes it evade away from the screen.

Your test would be the second phase of the test /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif
We can atleast conclude from this test that if you evade the first punch and evade again, the rest of the cast outside Akira, Lau, Jeffry, and Wolf will be able to get away from the sweep. In some cases put them behind Kage...(i think it was Goh and Lion, need to check again).

Yeah I thought about having another person to test with too, but I couldn't grab another person at the time...damn VF5 with no recording feature /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/mad.gif

Oh, I tried doing these tests for certain distances too. It still gave me the same results.

 

Akira can evade it just as well. You can make this happen by delaying the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif in shippu /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif slightly to remove the "stupid CPU"-factor. Something in CPU's actions makes it do a failed evade if you do a string too fast. I didnt bother to check the other characters you mentioned as I suspect this is the same issue.

 

I would think that the way the CPU evades is consistent, so that it isn't a variable in the test.

I would also be inclined to think that if a human player is to evade just as the CPU did, evade the first punch and then evade again in the same direction, we would get the same results no?

The only thing I haven't tested yet is what Myke suggested: block the punch, then evade the low /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif.

Judging by the failed evade that comes out, during my tests, I would think the game recognizes the low /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif as a sweep. The only variables would seem to be different characters having different hit-boxes and the input speed of the Kage player.

So we can say then that it differs depending on the input of /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif.

I guess this is one other example of how the hit-boxes are messed up in VF5.

 

I didn't realize the timing difference until I got to Lau. After that I got lazy trying it again for all the characters before Lau.

As for the way the CPU evades, I just think that the timing in which it evades triggered the same time whenever it should evade no?

Damn, I'm confusing myself now. You know what I'll test it again (you don't seem to have smiley for "rolls eyes" :/). First the same way I did, and I'll play with the timing for all characters this time. Then I'll have someone guard and evade.

 

Let Attacker (Kage) = Player 1
Defender = Player 2

<u>Test 1:</u> Evade Twice

Player 1 (Kage) will attack from Shippuujin with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif using the fastest timing and then by delay. Player 2 (as Aoi or Akira) will try to evade both attacks.

<u>Fastest timing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif</u>
Player 2: Evade Towards Front
: Akira : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif evade success[/size] : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif evade failed[/size]
: Aoi : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif evade success[/size] : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif evade failed[/size]
Evade Towards Back
: Akira : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif evade success[/size] : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif evade success[/size]
: Aoi : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif evade success[/size] : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif evade success[/size]


<u>Delayed /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif</u>
Player 2: Evade Towards Front
: Akira : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif evade success[/size] : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif evade success[/size]* (failed evade animation is triggered)[/size]
: Aoi : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif evade success[/size] : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif evade success[/size]* (failed evade animation is triggered)[/size]
Evade Towards Back
: Akira : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif evade success[/size] : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif evade success[/size]
: Aoi : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif evade success[/size] : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif evade success[/size]

<u>Test 2:</u>Block then Evade

Player 1 (Kage) will attack from Shippujin with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif using the fastest timing and then by delay. Player 2 (as Aoi or Akira) will block the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif then try to evade the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

<u>Fastest Timing /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif</u>
Player 2: Evade Towards Front
: Akira : /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif blocked[/size] : [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif[/img] evade failed[/size]
: Aoi : [color=#33CC00][img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif[/img] blocked[/size] : [color=#FF0000][img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif[/img] evade failed[/size]
[b]Evade Towards Back[/b]
: Akira : [color=#33CC00][img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif[/img] blocked[/size] : [color=#33CC00][img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif[/img] evade success[/size]
: Aoi : [color=#33CC00][img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif[/img] blocked[/size] : [color=#33CC00][img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif[/img] evade success[/size]

<u>[b]Delayed Timing [img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif[/img][img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif[/img][/b]</u>
[b]Player 2: Evade Towards Front[/b]
: Akira : [color=#33CC00][img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif[/img] blocked[/size] : [color=#FF0000][img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif[/img] evade failed[/size]
: Aoi : [color=#33CC00][img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif[/img] blocked[/size] : [color=#FF0000][img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif[/img] evade failed[/size]
[b]Evade Towards Back[/b]
: Akira : [color=#33CC00][img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif[/img] blocked[/size] : [color=#33CC00][img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif[/img] evade success[/size]
: Aoi : [color=#33CC00][img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif[/img] blocked[/size] : [color=#33CC00][img]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif[/img] evade success[/size]
==========================================
Player 1 and 2 then switched roles with Player 1 as the defender and 2 as Kage. The results were the same.[/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color][/color]

 

I cant test this with a friend atm, but all of this is more than slightly dubious. If something is evadable, it aint a sweep. There are no character-specific differences whether something is evadable or not. Its much more likely that you make the linear attack track the evader somehow (for instance evader pressing unnecessary buttons). Even in the case of succesful evade this can happen.

 

I agree, a sweep is supposed to be a sweep. 3 out of the 4 test it was a sweep. Somehow the delayed input makes it whiff only on the situation where the opponent evades twice.

With the test that Myke suggested in which the defender guards the first punch, the defender was unsuccessful in evading towards the front while successful towards the back. I did this over and over to make sure, it wasn't like i got the results i wanted and just stop.

So, my hypothesis is that during a double evade the defender is caused to move in a certain distance or angle where the sweep misses/whiffs. The game triggers the failed evade animation in the process. I think it just has something to do with the hit-boxes.

I should've tested it with Wolf and Jeffry, since they seem to have the biggest hit-boxes in the game.

I tested Aoi, since during my early test I was under the impression that the "bug" only works on lightweights. I wanted to see if I can replicate the CPU test but with a Human player. I tested Akira with your suggestion too.

 

That suggestion has some merit. It is possible that its halfcircular and its hitbox properties just have made it whiff on CPU opponent with some characters that did a failed evade on it. I try to test more today.

Yet another episode that could have been avoided if there was a recording mode..