VF5c vane punishable attacks

Discussion in 'Vanessa' started by erdraug, Sep 29, 2011.

  1. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    I was playing BorisOfWales the other day and noticed he didn't punish OS b,df+p+k. He's usually diligent when it comes to punishing blocked lows or knees. Which made me wonder "maybe he's just not aware that the russian hook is -12f on block". Which, after asking him on the shoutbox, turns out to be the case. So i compiled a list of vanessa's punishable moves, complete with short description. Sure, the command list can give you this information - but if you've never picked up vanessa you don't actually know how the moves animate. Hopefully with these short descriptions you'll be able to recognize them, even if you're not familiar with the input.

    So let's start with OS, it's simpler. I'll be listing moves from the most punishable to the least punishable:

    OS uf+k+g (HAWK strike)
    Move description: A jumping knee that floats on any hit. Screams punishable. Really easy to recognize.
    Disadvantage: -15f
    Recommended punishment: 14f or 15f punisher or floater. Throws connect but seem like a waste.

    OS db+k (sit down low kick)
    Move description: a low kick. Vanessa will crouch for this one. No followups, chip damage. You'll rarely see this.
    Disadvantage: -14f
    Recommended punishment: This is THE ONLY punishable move from OS that recovers low. Punish with your character's 14f mid. Low throws... will probably connect but the vanessa player might remember to break them (since vanessa has low throws too).

    OS d+k+g (Leg Slicer)
    Move description: a low kick that leads to a hit-throw on CH. Vanessa does a little twirl in order to hit your ankle with her rear leg.
    Disadvantage: -14f
    Recommended punishment: the move recovers high, however it has good range. If you block it at max range your 14f punisher or floater might whiff. You might want to punish with a p,k while holding forward instead. Same deal with throws, they might whiff at max range (and seem like a waste anyway).

    OS d+k (Stepping Low)
    Move description: Also a low kick. However this one is the first part of a 3 hit-string. It starts as low kick-high punch and can end either with another high punch that knocks down or a mid knee.
    Disadvantage: -14f
    Recommended punishment: The move recovers standing but since it's part of a string it's kinda hard to punish. Throws will lose if the vanessa player continues with the string, and so will 14f punishers or floaters. Stopping the rest of the string with a low punch works but a more damaging low, like a sweep, is recommended. If your character has an even more damaging MID move that can beat the high punch that follows (for example akira, goh & eileen shoulder rams, Lion's D,f+p, shun mulekick, that Aoi hit-throw etc.) then by all means use that instead.

    OS df+k,k (Stepping Toe Second Impact)
    Move description: a mid kick-mid kick string. The first kick has other, non-punishable, followups so a vanessa player might actually try to use it if he thinks he'll get away with it.
    Disadvantage: -14f
    Recommended punishment: 14f punisher or floater. Throws connect (but seem like a waste).

    OS f+p,k,k (Stride Combination)
    Move description: a mid punch-high punch-mid kick string. Vanessa does a little twirl for the last kick. Looks punishable without providing a knockdown so vanessa players will avoid it outside of floats.
    Disadvantage: -14f
    Recommended punishment: 14f punisher or floater. The last kick doesn't push back but, still, it has good range. If you block it at max range your throw might whiff (and it seems like a waste anyway).

    OS p,p,p,k (Machine Gun Combination - who makes up these names?)
    Move description: 3 high punches and a mid kick that knocks down on hit. The last hit animates similarly to DS OM k and looks just as punishable. Since vanessa's OS punch string comes in a p,k variety they tend to use this once less frequently.
    Disadvantage: -14f
    Recommended punishment: 14f punisher or floater. It pushes back so throws might whiff (and seem like a waste anyway).

    OS OM k (Quick Knee Kick - no seriously? it's a knee, why call it a kick?!)
    Move description: offensive move followed by a knee. Crumples on CH. Has a very short range so vanessa players will probably refrain from using it.
    Disadvantage: -13f
    Recommended punishment: p,k or throw. f+p+k string for Sarah.

    OS b,df+p+k (Russian Hook)
    Move description: an overhead punch that slams on hit. Evades high attacks during execution.
    Disadvantage: -12f
    Recommended punishment: p,k or throw.

    OS b,f+p+k,p (Lighting Smash Combo)
    Move description: vanessa runs towards the opponent and delivers two mid punches that knock down on hit. Looks punishable.
    Disadvantage: -12f
    Recommended punishment: p,k or throw.

    OS p+k,p (Chopping Hook Body Smash)
    Move description: a mid punch-mid punch string. It doesn't look that punishable so a Vanessa player might actually throw out this one.
    Disadvantage: -12f
    Recommended punishment: p,k or throw.

    OS b,f+p,p,p,k (Assault Combination)
    Move description: a fast punch-punch-punch-mid knee string. Vanessa players will probably prefer the b,f+p,p,b+p variation of this string which gives +2 on block instead so you shouldn't be encountering this one often.
    Disadvantage: -12f
    Recommended punishment: p,k or throw.

    OS f,f+k,p (Landing Knee Combo)
    Move description: a far reaching knee followed by an overhead punch.
    Disadvantage: -11f
    Recommended punishment: 11f p,k. DS vanessa can punish with df+p. Aoi, Jeffry and Wolf just get nitaku.

    OS Intruder Step p (Rising Upper)
    Move description: a mid punch that slams on hit. Has a punch followup that switches to DS, is positive on block AND part of the float.
    Disadvantage: -11f
    Recommended punishment: 11f p,k. DS vanessa can punish with df+p. Aoi, Jeffry and Wolf just get nitaku. In theory. However, since there's no real incentive for the vanessa player to NOT follow through with the punch followup, i recommend using a damaging low or a tech crouching mid to beat the high followup.

    OS p,df+p (Feint Body) and df+p+k,k (Upper Heel Sword)
    Disadvantage: -9f
    Recommended punishment: DS vanessa only.
    Move description: well, you can only punish these moves if you're playing vanessa - so you'll be able to recognize them :)

    DS is a little more complicated since it has more moves that are -11f or less which require p,k punishment. Once again, i'll be listing moves from the most punishable to the lest punishable:

    DS d+k+g (Low Spin Slicer)
    Move description: a sweep. One of the two DS punishable moves that recover low.
    Disadvantage: -18f
    Recommended punishment: knee class floater. Low throws connect (but seem like a waste).

    DS f+p+k,p (Grand Spike)
    Move description: a mid-mid string. The first part is a spinning mid elbow that sabakis HP and HK; the second part is an overhead MDP that slams on hit.
    Disadvantage: -15f
    Recommended punishment: 14f or 15f punisher or floater. Throws connect (but seem like a waste).

    DS db+k (Sit Down Low Kick)
    Move description: a low kick. Good range. The other DS punishable move that recovers low.
    Disadvantage: -14f
    Recommended punishment: 14f elbow class mid. Low throws might whiff at max range.

    DS d+k (Stopping Low)
    Move description: a low kick. It looks like vanessa stomps on the opponent's foot. It's the first part of a low-high string.
    Disadvantage: -14f
    Recommended punishment: The move recovers standing but since it's part of a string it's kinda hard to punish. Throws will lose if the vanessa player continues with the string, and so will 14f punishers or floaters. Similarly to OS d+k, you can stop the rest of the string with a low punch or a more damaging low. If your character has a mid move that can beat the high followup use that instead. HOWEVER, contrary to the OS d+k string, the DS version does not have a mid followup. So, if you think the vanessa player will input the rest of the string on hit or block, you might want wait for vanessa to whiff over your head, then punish.

    DS p,p,k (One Two Low)
    Move description: Jab-punch-low kick. Recovers standing.
    Disadvantage: -14f
    Recommended punishment: 14f punisher or floater. Throws connect (but seem like a waste).

    DS evade p+k (Das Boot - no, wait, Barrier Kick)
    Move description: evade followed by a mid kick. It has decent range and pushes back a bit.
    Disadvantage: -14f
    Recommended punishment: 14f punisher or floater. Throws might whiff due to pushback (and seem like a waste)

    DS OM k (Smash Toe Kick)
    Move description: offensive move then a mid kick. Crumples on CH. It animates similarly to the last hit of OS p,p,p,k.
    Disadvantage: -13f
    Recommended punishment: p,k or throw. f+p+k string for Sarah.

    DS p,p,p,k (Shadow Combo High Kick)
    Move description: Jab-punch-punch-kick string. The last hit knocks down, is special high and pushes back on block.
    Disadvantage: -13f
    Recommended punishment: p,k. Throws might whiff due to pushback. f+p+k string for Sarah. But since it's high it's probably better to duck and punish.

    DS f+p,k,k (Back Knuckle Stream)
    Move description: a mid-high-mid string. Vanessa twirls around for the first hit punch, the does a high and a mid kick. The last kick pushes back a lot on block.
    Disadvantage: -13f
    Recommended punishment: p,k. Throws might whiff due to pushback. f+p+k string for Sarah.

    DS Hold G then d+p or u+p to vanessa's front (Intruder Hook)
    Move description: vanessa, uh, wobbles forward and punches the opponent in the kidneys. It's a weird move. Crumples on CH.
    Disadvantage: -12f
    Recommended punishment: p,k or throw.

    DS Hold G then d+p or u+p to vanessa's back (Intercept Body Blow)
    Move description: vanessa leans to her side and punches the opponent in the kidney. Crumples on CH.
    Disadvantage: -11f
    Recommended punishment: 11f p,k. DS vanessa can punish with df+p. Aoi, Jeffry and Wolf just get nitaku. If your character has a 11f or 10f jab and you can't differentiate between Intruder Hook and Intercept Body Blow, i recommend you always punish with p,k.

    DS Hold G then df+p or uf+p (Gliding Slicer and Gliding Back Knuckle, depending on foot stance)
    Move description: Vanessa takes a step to the side and does a backhand chop to the opponent's neck. Head crumples on hit.
    Disadvantage: -10f
    Recommended punishment: 10f p,k. So Eileen and Pai and Sarah only. DS vanessa can punish with df+p. Everybody else just gets nitaku.

    DS p,df+p (Feint Body)
    Disadvantage: -9f
    Recommended punishment: DS vanessa only.
    Move description: again, you can only punish this move if you're playing vanessa - so you'll be able to recognize it.

    Note that the command list indicates two more DS moves that are -9: f,f+k and b,f+k. However the first one has great pushback so DS df+p can't reach. The second one has a followup so, again, it's hard to punish with DS df+p.

    Finally, a couple of moves that work from Both Stances:

    BT k+g (Turn Low Spin Slicer)
    Move description: a sweep performed from the back turned position. Knocks down on NH! This one recovers high.
    Disadvantage: -15f
    Recommended punishment: 14f or 15f punisher or floater. Throws connect but seem like a waste.

    Jumping p (Double Knuckle, Elbow or Step Straight)
    Move description: vanessa jumps THEN does some kind of attack with her hands. NOT to be confused with OS uf+p which animates like a "superman punch"; that one is actually +2 on block!
    Disadvantage: -10f
    Recommended punishment: 10f p,k. So Eileen and Pai and Sarah only. DS vanessa can punish with df+p. Everybody else just gets nitaku.

    Hope i didn't forget anything. Sorry for the lack of formatting, i didn't have the courage to add emoticon button inputs for all of these attacks. :zzz:
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2015
  2. AnimalStaccato

    AnimalStaccato Well-Known Member

    Epeeeeeeec post

    I definitely didn't know that Russian Hook was -12.

    I do hope that they have a dojo option in FS where you can prac against any move, that would help so many people out.
     
  3. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    Damnit, i forgot to mention DS d+k.

    /facepalm

    I knew it was too late. Please, can a mod add:
    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">d+k (Stopping Low)
    Move description: a low kick. It looks like vanessa stomps on the opponent's foot. It's the first part of a low-high string.
    Disadvantage: -14f
    Recommended punishment: The move recovers standing but since it's part of a string it's kinda hard to punish. Throws will lose if the vanessa player continues with the string, and so will 14f punishers or floaters. Similarly to OS d+k, you can stop the rest of the string with a low punch or a more damaging low. If your character has a mid move that can beat the high followup use that instead. HOWEVER, contrary to the OS d+k string, the DS version does not have a mid followup. So, if you think the vanessa player will input the rest of the string on hit or block, you might want wait for vanessa to whiff over your head, then punish.</div></div>
    between db+k (Sit Down Low Kick) and p,p,k (One Two Low) ? For consistency's sake?

    I also forgot to mention that BT sweep knocks down on hit :(
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2015
  4. akai

    akai Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    Added to original post.
     
  5. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    Thanks Akai you're the best (y)
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2015
  6. MarlyJay

    MarlyJay Moderator - 9K'ing for justice. Staff Member Gold Supporter

    PSN:
    MarlyJay
    XBL:
    MarlyJay
    Nice post. Good work [​IMG]
     

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