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VF5FS Easy Throw Escape

Discussion in 'Dojo' started by Dennis0201, Jun 2, 2012.

  1. Dennis0201

    Dennis0201 Well-Known Member

    I just realize I was doing unnecessary inputs all the time. [​IMG]
  2. Tricky

    Tricky "9000; Eileen Flow Dojoer" Content Manager Eileen

    That 6323G to input cancel the evade is difficult to do in practice. I've been in dojo for the past few days trying to get that to be natural. It's actually really helpful to see this video. Time to practice this now too!
  3. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    Akai JC
    Dennis - thanks for taking the initiative on making these threads. There are various things that I know I would like to play around with and test later.

    More tidbits related to "Easy Throw escapes" (also called "Simplified Throw Escape" or "Lazy Throw Escape"):

    Taking a portion from Noodall's Translation of an Arcadia article about Final Showdown changes:
    From my short experience (please correct anything that is wrong):

    - If you hold [P][+][G] simultaneously during recovery of a move you will not be in a guard pose. I had a tendency (when trying to have [6][P][+][G] throw escape input buffered, to just be walking forward). You will have a throw escape input registered though from my understanding of a shoutbox conversation with AlexMD. AlexMD, also mentioned something about the buffering working for 1 second before the buffered input is not registered.

    - If you want to stay in a guard state: You basically press and hold [G] first. While in guard state, you can press and/or hold the [P] button with [6] or [4] or [5] to have a throw escape buffered in.

    - The previous throw escape method can still be done. However, only one throw escape input is registered. Multiple throw escapes input will not be registered. Throw escape window is 20 frames - 10 frames before and after throw connects (having the simplified throw escape method kinds of make it not as important to know the throw window).

    - Not sure if low throw escapes can be buffered similarly in a crouch guard position?
  4. Dennis0201

    Dennis0201 Well-Known Member

    Yes, press G first to maintain guard position is necessary.

    The old TE method is workable, but the timing is not good against delay throw.

    Check out 0:21 [​IMG]
  5. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    Akai JC
    Hmmm, no inputs shown, but if that is true, neat. I wonder how this would work with fuzzy guard...
  6. Dennis0201

    Dennis0201 Well-Known Member

    Since -4 fuzzy is 33G now, he probably just tapped P afterward.
  7. Zass

    Zass Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure I follow what's going on in that video. Can someone explain?


  8. Tricky

    Tricky "9000; Eileen Flow Dojoer" Content Manager Eileen

    This is way easier to do in FS than it ever was in vanilla. The window is huge now.
  9. samtheseed

    samtheseed Well-Known Member

    Shun is Drunk
    Great vid, thank you. Really helpful.
  10. Tricky

    Tricky "9000; Eileen Flow Dojoer" Content Manager Eileen

    So the window for where you can do the TE is kinda large. You can do it at the start of your evade, then buffer the canceled failed evade option select. Or you can do the failed evade option select buffer first then do the Easy TE.
  11. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    Akai JC
    In the video (using Akira):
    First example: Evade - Easy Throw Escape - P+K
    Second example: Evade Canceled Throw Escape - P+K
    Third example: Evade Throw Escape Crouch Dash Cancel - P+K

    For the purpose of the easy throw escape input (the advantage is no whiff throw execution), the first example is good enough:

    1. Akira player at disadvantage input [8] to evade.
    2. During the evade, Akira player input [4][G].
    3. While still holding [4][G], the player taps/hold [P] also (in other words [4][G][+][P]
    4. Noticed Akira did not whiff a throw but was able to use striking attacks instead [4][P][P][+][K] immediately after buffering the throw escape.

    Throw escape window is a 20 frame window (10f before and after throw connects) which is actually slightly smaller than vanilla VF5. Holding down on the [P][+][G] input means you don't have to time the press within the throw escape window. You can prepare the throw escape input much earlier than the throw escape window. If you released the [P][+][G] input before the throw window begins, then it will not be recognized as an input.
  12. KiwE

    KiwE Well-Known Member

    If you're in a sideturned position; why would you ever not just hold G and escape the only throw that can come now?
  13. Cla

    Cla Well-Known Member

    I'm pretty sure the tutorial in console FS teaches this too.
  14. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf

    Yes it does, and now if you have to fuzzy you can use [1] and [3] as input too. That means you can escape a low throw with the yutori system right now, tought the fuzzy is usefull only up to -3 now and you have to cd fuzzy at -4.
  15. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    Did anyone in this thread suggest otherwise?
  16. SketchCarellz

    SketchCarellz Member

    Hey all. I am new to Virtua Fighter.

    While I cannot say that I completely understand the system and guides I've read so far, here are my assumptions. When I first DL'd Final Showdown, I was under the assumption (because I thought I read this somewhere) that somehow, when someone attempts a throw, you can input multiple escapes and if the throw attempt matches that escape, the throw escape will occur. So I thought that if someone tried to throw me with a throw that ended in the direction 6P+G, if I saw my opponents hands come out and quickly entered 4P+G then 6P+G I would get the throw escape. I read somewhere that VF allows you to enter up to three throw break attempts.

    While in practice mode, I tried doing this a number of different ways and I could not get it to work. I did see that if you hold down your throw break attempt, the timing of the attempt does not matter and you will get the throw escape. That is a new and interesting mechanism for breaking throws in fighting games, and I will somehow have to make use of that.

    Did they change the system from the older VF5s (I didn't really play them) so that you cannot enter multiple throw escapes?

    Just as background/a sidenote; I'm a high level Tekken player. Not sure if you guys know how the throw breaking system works in Tekken, but throws can be broken completely on reaction. That sounds easy, but it is not and it takes Tekken players years to be able to consistently break the three different types of throws on reaction in an actual match. If there is a surefire way for me practice throw escaping in VF with the same discipline that I did in Tekken, I am willing to do that. But in my mind so far (because of my limited knowledge), despite throws being buffered into evade moves and other things, throws are escaped on a lucky guess because the start up animations are all the same. I'm assuming that someone will tell me that that is wrong, so I would just like to know why that is wrong.

    If there is still a way to enter multiple throw escape attempts, in my head that will greatly reduce the number of throws successfully landed. If I could cover 4P+G, 6P+G, and neutral P+G (or at least two) every time I thought or actually saw a throw coming, I wouldn't feel so bad about being thrown to death. Being that throws are unblockable and VF seems so balanced in terms of all of the other frame data and stuff I have read so far, multiple inputs would seem like a fair throw escape system as well. But I cannot figure out how to do it.

    Forgive me for my limited knowledge and assumptions. It is only to better myself as a player and become more comfortable and familiar with the detailed systems of the game.

    Any solid data I get, I will create a section in this post and update the post so that any beginners like myself will be able to refer to the first post for convenience.

    Thanks in advance,

  17. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    Akai JC
    Hi Sketch - most of what you said should be answered in the first couple of posts. Or in the Final Showdown Noodalls Translation of Arcadia Final Showdown System Changes. The throw system has changed.

    Some throws do have different start-up animations (Look at Wolf for example); however, majority of throws have same exact initial throw escape animation. It is very much a guessing game [the fundamental aspect). You can likely input throw escape by reaction. But still a guessing game.
  18. Feck

    Feck Well-Known Member Content Manager Akira

    Well you can visually react to the grabbing animation then hold [P] + a direction ...still only a 33% chance of getting the right throw though.
  19. SketchCarellz

    SketchCarellz Member

    Aah, gotcha. Throws are a 33% chance of a break, and they got rid of escaping with 1 and 3 directions. Good to know. Thank you.
  20. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Some food for thought ^_^

    For me, throw escapes in VF are often something you use to layer your defense when you're in a vulnerable position. It's an "extra layer of defense" whether it's applying the new Easy Throw Escape to your Guards, something you input when you're stuck in recovery after you whiff an attack or you got blocked, etc... It's even something you can input (without disrupting your options) when you evade, do a reversal, etc...

    Meaning, it's an active part of your flow, without disrupting it. At least that is the ideal in VF. Therefore you have at least 1 in 3 options covered (since in FS you can no longer escape multiple throws).

    That said, Final Showdown has reverted to the Pre-VF5 rule of Attacks beat Throws (well, what actually happened was they got rid of throw clashes which were added in VF5). This means that a full attack (as opposed to a guard-cancelled kick) will beat the normal high and low throws as long as the full attack can animate before the throw fully connects. Because of this, at least in neutral and non-guaranteed throw situations (-10 is guaranteed throw situation), you can technically react to a throw animation by attacking right away. This is very hard and I wouldn't count on it for a long time, but technically you can do that.

    But again, at least for me, throw escapes are "extra armor" you put into your active defense whenever you're in a vulnerable state (or also now, literally whenever you are guarding).

    My 2 cents and hope it helps someone ^_^

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