VF5FS OFFLINE /Tournament Ranks and Vs Mode Stats

So What Gives?

Everybody says (I Agree) that the real competition is offline VS play. The VFDC bigshots say because of Lag, cherry picking, etc, Online Ranks don't mean anything.

Okay, How come Sega made no provisions for offline ranks for VS (2 player) play? What are we supposed do; make our own ranking system for Tourneys?

If offline(2 player) VS mode is the "TRUE REAL MODE OF VF PLAY" then where is the ranking system? Where are the win/loss stats if offline VS is the true legitimate/official mode of competition? Where are our ring names and PR Statements?

We had our first 'true' offline tourney this past weekend, No real way to save ring names, no VS stats for any fighter, no idea of RANKS. Are the ppl coming in to the tourney Dans, Warriors, LionHearts? Who da-fuck knows! The VS mode in VF5FS is so bare bones that it doesn't keep any kind of real stats for player 1, player 2 W.T.F? If VS mode is the 'TRUE REAL MODE OF VF PLAY' then Sega really left us holding the bag. Yes! I'm grateful to have VF5FS, it did add online play to the PSN, but for hard core, offline is "SUPPOSED TO BE" where the action is, but yet, no ring names, no PR statements, no, way of keeping stats and no RANKING system at all WTF?

Now that the sheer excitement of having VF5FS with online PS3 play has worn off, and we get back down to the business of offline tourneys and competitions, it clear what a disaster 2 player mode is.

I would like to have a ranking system apply to 2 player mode, especially since the only legitimate matches that are fought, happen in 2 player mode.

 

You are a tool.

 

This fucking guy!

 

TLR

zzzzzz

 

LOL what the shit is this?

No but if u REALLY want a working ranking system, hit up Jaxel - heres an example of the system he built: http://8wayrun.com/rankings/

not exactly what you're looking for but at least displays "trueskill" offline at tourneys

 

I like Jaxel's system. We should use that for Next level's ranking system we've been building.

 

We need somethin,

If you want to keep rank in 2 player, how do you do it. You have tourney's we know who won, who came in 1rst, 2nd, 3rd, etc.

Do we keep 2 player ranks on VFDC? Since the online ranks don't mean anything (cough, cough)

where do we keep the offline ranking system?

 

Thread of the year.

If you need a title or number to tell you who's the best you're in need of a kick up the arse.

 

Evo allowed for ranking in versus if i remember correctly. The account was tied to your single player rank as well.

 

2nded. If we're going to have a ranking system that's fine with me, but we don't need it really. It's not a travesty or anything. We're doing it at NL to add some drama to the stream and pick who gets to go on.

 

I can only agree with Seidon and Tricky.

Why the hell do you think we need offline ranking, Po? For what reason?
Do other fighting games even have any kind of USABLE offline ranks (cough cough)?
Or... What is your point?

 

There are a couple of different ways to handle offline ranking. The first is to enable it versus the CPU. Not a true representation of rank, since no human opponents are being fought. The second is to enable it in offline versus, where a person can just inflate his rank by fighting an opponent not being controlled by anyone.

Offline ranking is pretty pointless on a console version. It's only relevant on a public arcade system.

 

I've been playing VF since Virtu Fighter 4

1) Virtua Fighter 4 has offline / vs ranking (Kumite Mode)
2) Virtua Fighter 4 Evo has offline ranking (Quest Mode)
3) Virtua Fighter 5 has offline ranking (Quest Mode)

@Seidon, Tricky, Unicorn my point is why should Sega take offline ranking out of the game , when its been a standard feature all this time?

@Libertine why such a weak analysis? Singleplayer video games have always had high score, best time, most kills, highest level cleared, more star ships destroyed etc. Thats a part of video gaming. Initially it was how well you could do against the computer. Your chums would try to see if they could out do you. Who ever would get high score could put their initials up, or some other way of claiming their fame. Saving counts, high scores, zombies killed, levels cleared, apples eaten, etc has always been a part of video games. Of course your rank against the computer is part of the same tradition.

Now for some reason you're under the 'FALSE' assumption that beating a player is somehow better than beating the computer. Depending on how the AI is set up it can be far superior to any human player and if you beat such an AI you would be one bad ass.
Beating VF5FS on hard and very hard would be a serious challenge to at least half of the ppl on PSN right now. From a personal perspective its much easier to beat 8 out of 10 ppl on PSN than it is to beat VF5Fs extra modes on Very Hard. I could rank up all day on most of the ppl on VF5FS PSN, I could not rank up all day against the Sega Maniacs on VeryHard or the GoWest team. Even the Dreamers on Very Hard require concentration on my part.

So Libertine your premise that rank against the CPU is meaningless is simply false. If all the ppl on PSN or XBL could easily beat all of the AIs in VF5FS then you would have some bad ass players in general, but they can't and you don't.

As far as you ranking up in VS against some scrub. LOL that's more a reflection of you're personal lack of integrity than a game flaw. Its like a person that cheats to win. They know they cheated, and therefore their victory is empty. If you got to stormlord by beating your 7 year old little brother who can barely hold a stick, unless you have a mental handicap you are not going to go around and brag that you are a storm lord.

Vs rankings and Singleplayer rankings only have meaning to you, the individual. Just like the fact that I've killed 10,000 enemies in Dynasty Warriors 7 during a single battle. Its a big deal to me, who the hell else cares? Its a measurement of personal achievement that I personally have value for.

Yes I would like to see how many time I beat the AI on hard and very hard. I don't give a flying fuck whether its important to you our not. Its important to me. I'm on record saying this almost 5 years ago. The AI's in VF play better than most of the ppl that I've met, the games are more enjoyable to me. And if Sega had the AI's talk trash, then it would be a wrap. Yes I want to keep track in my personal profile how many wins and losses and my rank in VS mode. I don't care whether it means something to the world or not. I play the video game for my own enjoyment. And I would enjoy seeing my loses, wins, and rank in single player and vs mode.

I don't know libertine, unicorn , seidon, tricky maybe VF is the only game you play, but any of you that have friended me can compare trophies and see that I play and am very good at a lot of video games, and every one I play (EXCEPT Virtua FIGHTER 5FS) keeps statistics in single player, and VS, from Socom4 to Amored Core 5 to UFC Undisputed to Ninja Gaiden 3 to Assassin's Creed to Soul Calibur5 to Need For Speed Hot Pursuit, and the list fuckin goes on and on. Everybody keeps count in singleplayer and vs except VF5FS. So don't fuckin try to convince me that they have it right and everybody else has it wrong.


You know who has it wrong: Libertine, Tricky, Seidon, and Unicorn, if you can't see the place that measurement of self achievement has played in the history and definition of video games, then you should chill in responding to my posts. Because in general when I post something, I'm typically knowledgeable about that subject

 

I thought that you were going to reply with something like this. Allow me to make myself clear:

I am a fan of the ranking systems in the offline versions of VF4, VF4: Evo, VF5, Tekken 5, and Tekken 5: DR. I think that ranking is a good idea and a fun distraction, even if the competition is against CPU opponents. I also enjoyed fighting the teams you've mentioned very much. I also played on VERY HARD and some of those matches were quite intense. Personally, I only found the final team to be very threatening, making me retry on some occasions. Well, that a Lei opponent from a previous team. I think that the AI is very good, and it's possibly the best that I've encountered in a fighting game to date.

However, I thought that the premise of this thread was "real competition." This is the kind of competition that you typically can't find playing on consoles offline. For the dedicated fans that are able, an improvised system can, and has, been devised. That's what I was thinking about in my previous reply. You seem to believe that lacking offline rankings is a huge oversight by Sega, and I disagree. The offline modes present offer other distractions, none of which include ranking for appeal. There's already the License Challenge for people who want to collect some sort of reward for progression. My preference would have been for another version of Quest Mode, with ranking included, but what are you going to do? The ranking had a practical application outside of your progress. It allowed you to be pitted against more challenging opponents, the higher in rank that you got. So from that perspective, I think that ranking is very relevant for a Quest Mode. It isn't for earning licenses, beating teams, or for Arcade Mode and Time Attack.

My favorite mode in FS involved those team battles. I found those challenges more entertaining than any version of Quest Mode that I've played in the past. The only thing I would have liked better is if you needed to start again fighting the first opponent if you lost to an opponent later on. It would have enhanced the "you vs. the team" feel.

Again, I thought that you were coming from the perspective of "real competition." There's plenty of the types of things that you've mentioned already, such as scores for Time Attack and licenses for the License Challenge mode. I like offline ranking as much as the next guy, but its omission certainly has little to no impact when it comes to assessing one's placement among skilled human opponents. As I said, it's only important on an arcade machine. It's in public, where lots of human opponents will use it. Having such a high number of "real" opponents is a much better way to understand where one stands in the ranking strata.

As far as "comparing trophies" is concerned, Achievements/Trophies are no indication of how good a person is at a game. Most of them feel like a cheap way to extend a game's lifespan. It's like grinding points in 1980's arcade games. We've come full circle.

 

Libertine said:

" I thought that the premise of this thread was "real competition." This is the kind of competition that you typically can't find playing on consoles offline."


Libertine Huh?

Live Tourney's are played offline! Live Tourneys are the real ones remember! offline refers to both single player and VS mode. And currently there is no ranking system for VS mode (where the real tourneys are played)

You and several others on this side are under the erroneous assumption that "real competition" is only human competition. Since AI is part of my field IRL. I'll make a few points here. Recently and for the first time in history A artificial intelligence system called WATSON just beat a couple expert Jeopardy players at the game Jeopardy. I think we all recall Deep Blue's victory in chess over one of the world's greatest Chess players. Unless you are an AI insider most of you have no idea what the new algorithms look like that are coming down the pike. Things like evolutionary algorithms, bio inspired artificial intelligence, fitness functions, etc are not part of your vocabularies. You think you know how AI fighting engines are being designed when most of you really don't. And the few that have some idea, are basing your opinions on old obsolete algorithms.

Today and tomorrow, most challenging competition that you will face in a fighting game will be AI on its difficult or very difficult settings. In some cases these settings can result in an AI that can out perform most human beings. And if you can beat this level of AI you would absolutely devastate most human beings.

Here's what most of the detractors fall back on, "Well I found such and such weakness in the AI and it can be exploited by blah, blah ,blah technique". My response is that's good for you. But the same thing can be said for any master human player (who will have some weakness) whether you've found it or not. The game makes attenuate the AI so that it is possible to beat it. But they could publish AI's with the hardest possible algorithms, most of the players on this site and that play the game could not beat these difficult algorithms. Its not that they can't be beat, its just extremely hard to find there weaknesses and to beat them on sheer speed and dexterity is beyond the reach of most human beings.

So Libertine, and all the rest of the players on the site that are under the false assumption that the AI is not real competition you have it completely wrong. In the long run the AI is the only real competition. Here's my ghetto-level-evidence.

1) Starting with VF4 until present. I've played many many thousands of matches, I have thousands of wins and losses against human players. But the most well rounded and challenging matches I've ever played in VF have been against the AI in the special sparring sessions on VF5FS. Even when I've lost matches against some of VFDC's accomplished players, its not the same as being dominated by the AI in the special sparring sessions. I go back and look at the replays of my fights against really good human players I always see why I won and a way that my opponent could have easily beat me, and why I loss and what I could have done to win. But against these AI's on very hard its difficult for me to duplicate my wins or be confident in my wins. I do beat the AI's on hard sometimes but its more random than I would like. Also when I lose,its normally not because I made some rookie mistake, I was just dominated plan and simple.

2) The games against the AI in the special sparring sessions are far more rewarding than playing against any human player I've ever meet. I guess its not just the AI's in the special sparring sessions, it the AI's on hard in quest mode, kumite mode, etc.

3) I have almost 2 thousand wins and several hundred losses in VF5FS but none of those matches were as well rounded, exciting, or suspensful as the matches against the AI on very hard (no offense to anyone I've played ) But if I truly want a competitive match where virtually every round is filled with excitement and intrigue, I don't even think about playing human players.

So IMO ranking against the AI's on very hard in single player would be an indication of actual skill. Its my opinion that the AI's on very hard in the special sparring session would consistently beat the majority of players on the PSN. So if you can get a rank for beating someone of the PSN, you should be able to get a rank for consistently beating the AI's on very hard.

Also since VS mode is the primary mode of tournaments some kind of ranking system should be designed for 2 player that is not easily compromised. Perhaps a ranking system that would not let you rank up against only a few profiles. A ranking system that required that the players you rank up against must also have a legitimate rank that is reflected by a diversity other profiles that they have beaten and so on.

Yea, I want my single player statistics back, my win/loss ratio any single player and vs mode back. I want ranking in single player back. I want profiles and some way to rank in VS mode.

AFAIC Real Competition is against the AI's on very hard