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VF5R Brad changes

Discussion in 'Arcade' started by Blahzie, Apr 22, 2008.

  1. Libertine

    Libertine Well-Known Member Content Manager Brad Silver Supporter Content Coordinator

    The opponent is facing away from you in R when they recover.
     
  2. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Ladon, I don't believe just holding [G] ever worked. You have to enter some kind of ukemi command, then release [P] and [K] while still holding [G]. For e.g. [P][+][K][+][G]~[G]

    However, I'm unsure if the success of this depends on the knockdown position.
     
  3. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

    PSN:
    manjimaruFI
    XBL:
    freedfrmtheReal
    I think in some weird cases theres been a sort of 'glitch' ukemi that teleports the character straight to standing position. I agree with myke in that there needs to be some sort fo ukemi command first (P+K+G)
     
  4. Libertine

    Libertine Well-Known Member Content Manager Brad Silver Supporter Content Coordinator

    My favorite Brad player with a name I can't pronounce has graciously provided us with VF5R Version B frame data for our beloved Lothario:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/mudanadoryokusuki#play/uploads/1/vT3aqn4jE0o


    On Guard

    [2][K] = -15
    [1][K] = -15
    [1][P] = -15
    [2][K][+][G] = -19
    [1][K][+][G] = -15
    SL/SR [P][+][K][K] = -15
    SB [K][+][G] = -17
    PT [2][P] = -18
    [6][K][P][2][K]* = -14
    BT [2][K] = -14
    [P] = +2
    [P][P] = -5
    [P][P][P] = -8
    [P][P][P][K] = -16
    [2][P] = -5
    [6][P] = -5
    [6][P][K] = -16
    [3][P] = -4
    [3][P][P] = -6
    [3][P][P][+][K] = -8
    [3][P][K] = -7
    [4][P] = -3
    [4][P][K] = -6
    [K] = -4
    [K][P] = -6
    [K][P][K] = -8
    [6][K] = -8
    [4][K] = -8
    [2][K][K] = -5
    [3][K] = -6
    [9][K] = -15
    [6][P][+][K] = -6
    [4][P][+][K] = -5
    [3][P][+][K] = -6
    [3][P][+][K][P] = -13
    [2][P][+][K] = -6
    [2][P][+][K][P] = -9
    [2][P][+][K][P][P] = -8
    [2][P][+][K][P][P][6][P] = -9
    [K][+][G] = -5
    [6][K][+][G] = -15
    [4][K][+][G] = -7
    [4][K][+][G][K] = -8
    Ducking [P] = -6
    Ducking [P][P] = -14
    Ducking [K] = -3
    Ducking [K][+][G] = -15
    Ducking [P][+][K] = -6
    SR [P] = -6
    [P][K] = -4
    SR [K] = -1
    SL/SR [P][+][K] = -3
    SL/SR [P][+][K][P] = -3
    SL [P] = -4
    SL [K] = +5
    SB [P] = -4
    SB [P][P] = -6
    SB [P][P][K] = -9
    SB [P][P][K] On hit or guard [K] = -6
    SB [P][+][K] = Stagger
    SB [K] = -9
    LD [P] = -3
    LD [P][P] = -6
    LD [P][P][P] = -6
    LD [K] = -8
    LD [K][K] = -13
    LD [K][+][G] = -7
    [P][P][K] = -15
    [​IMG][4][K] = -6
    BT [P] = +1
    BT [P][K] = -6
    BT [P][+][K] = -3
    BT [K] = -6
    BT [2][P] = -4
    [7]/[8]/[9] [P]/[K] In ascension or midair [K] = -7
    [7]/[8]/[9] [P]/[K] In descension [K] = -6
    [7]/[8]/[9] [P]/[K] In ascension and midair (?) [P] = -10
    [7]/[8]/[9] [P]/[K] In decension (?) [P] = -10
    [P][6][P] = -6
    [P][+][K] = -2
    [6][6][P][+][K] = -6
    [6][6][P][+][K][P] = -13
    [6][6][P][+][K][2]/[8][P] = -4
    [K][+][G][2][K][+][G] = -22
    [​IMG][3][P] = -8
    [3][3][P] = -6
    [3][3][P][P] = -13
    [4][6][K] = -13
    [4][6][P][+][K] = -5
    [4][6][K][+][G] = -6
    DM [P][+][K] = -15
    [4][K][P] = -2
    [4][K][P][K] = -8
    PT [P] = +3
    PT [P][P] = -7
    PT [P][+][K] = -8
    PT [K] = -1
    SB [4][P][+][K] = +1

    *I think that it's safe to assume that the frames on guard are the same for [4][K][+][G][K][P][2][K].


    The other values recorded are the frame disadvantages Brad has when transferring into Slipping and Ducking from his various moves. I believe these values reflect the frame situation should Brad remain neutral and not attack from these stances, so I won't bother placing them here since I can't see any practical application for them.

    I didn't see the frame data for [P][6][P][K] or [6_][K] on guard.

    I also apologize for the inconvenient ordering of the moves presented above. I copied the data in the order presented from the videos.

    Here are the most notable changes, which may or may not be VF5R Version B specific:

    [6][P] - This is still -5 on guard from VF5R Version A, which is great for Brad's defense due to players being able to use [2][G] to fuzzy.

    [6][P][K] - This used to be -18 on guard in VF5 Version C, but is now -16 on guard.

    [K][P][K] - This move has gone down from -12 on guard to -8 on guard. This might be a good string to use against side-turned opponents.

    SR [P] - This became at least -7 on guard in VF5R Version A. I'm glad that it is once again fuzzable. It would be great if [4][P][K][2]/[8] SR [P] still beats the opponent's elbows like in Version A.

    [P][K] - This was -8 on guard in VF5 Version C but is now -4 on guard. A nice change.

    SL/SR [P][+][K][P] - This is now -3 on guard! This used to be non-fuzzable, so -3 is a HUGE difference! And as you can see, it lost its special guard animation.

    [P][6][P] - I thought that this was changed to -5 on guard in VF5R Version A. If so, it's back to -6 on guard now. You need to crouch dash fuzzy.

    [4][6][K][+][G] - It's now -6 on guard, meaning that you can crouch dash fuzzy! This looks like it's an even better tool against the wall now.


    I'm really liking these changes to Brad! [​IMG]
     
  5. tonyfamilia

    tonyfamilia Well-Known Member

    Great job, thanks Libertine!
     
  6. Feck

    Feck Well-Known Member Content Manager Akira

    Damn, some R player needs to do that with Akira...
     
  7. tonyfamilia

    tonyfamilia Well-Known Member

    I've noticed that the light down attack can not be blocked when the opponent techs to the foreground/background but it can be blocked when they do quick rise (in place). I would test this but I won't get my 360 back from MS for at least a few more weeks.
     
  8. Feck

    Feck Well-Known Member Content Manager Akira

    You're considered crouching after you tech roll and light down attack is a high attack, methinks.

    That's why quick rise works cause you recover standing, don't think it's a glitch. Probably doesn't work when your in face down, feet towards position but never seen that happen.
     
  9. Manjimaru

    Manjimaru Grumpy old man

    PSN:
    manjimaruFI
    XBL:
    freedfrmtheReal
    If that would be the case then the kick would whiff.. which it doesnt. Its blocked standing. Therefore its a mid or a special low (latter most likely).
     
  10. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    High attack? Special low? What? [​IMG]

    Down attacks can only be guarded while standing, so they're effectively a mid level attack.

    The "instant down attack guard trick" (release [P] and [K] while holding [G]) when tech rolling can be performed during both the side roll (foreground or background) and in-place recovery.

    For those who haven't seen it: When performed successfully, the tech recovery animation is cut short and your character warps instantly into the standing guard position.

    When doing this during a side roll recovery it is recommended that you roll into the background [8]. The reason being is that if you roll into the foreground [2][P][+][K][+][G], then release [P] and [K] there's a chance that you'll be left holding [2][G] the instant the down attack is connecting. So you end up warping into a crouching guard animation, resulting in you taking the hit. To avoid this, you want to ensure the stick is at neutral when you're holding [G]. This could be difficult to perform consistently which is why rolling up into the background is recommended as it eliminates this problem.

    For reference, this tidbit comes from an old thread: VF5 Q&A from Tougeki Damashi Vol 7
     
  11. tonyfamilia

    tonyfamilia Well-Known Member

    Goh vs Brad (Itoshun! & new item win pose)
    <object width="480" height="295"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/U6KpeXbW-gY"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/U6KpeXbW-gY" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="480" height="295"> </embed></object>
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6KpeXbW-gY&fmt=18
    Cool combos I had not seen before @0:34 and @1:49
     
  12. Libertine

    Libertine Well-Known Member Content Manager Brad Silver Supporter Content Coordinator

    Hey tony, that first combo was previously performed by someone in one of mudanadoryokusuki's videos, and can be seen here at 1:20:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl7OcDNyZLo

    I heard a ground hit in the video you posted, so I fear that it may not be guaranteed. As for the second one, it looks like [4][P][+][K] is a great combo filler in Version B. His combos looked quite toned down previously, but with the additional hits allowed now, the damage may be similar to that of Version A.

    BTW, I think that win pose is from a scene in Samurai Champloo.
     
  13. Libertine

    Libertine Well-Known Member Content Manager Brad Silver Supporter Content Coordinator

    The YouTube Brad player mudanadoryokusuki had uploaded more of Brad's VF5R Version B frame data awhile ago:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2Kkk6UKtPw

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki8YOT7tKf4&feature=related

    Two quick notes regarding this video in regards to the frame data on guard posted previously:

    [6_][K] = -6
    [P][6][P][K] = -13

    The special high kick retains the push back on guard it received in VF5R Version A. The second item above recovers one frame slower on guard than it did in VF5 Version C.

    On Hit:

    For the sake of brevity, I will only include the moves that are new or have changed since VF5 Version C this time.

    [3][P][P] = +2
    [3][P][P][+][K] = +1
    [K][P][K] = Knock down hit effect similar to that of Ducking [K][+][G]
    [1][K] = -6
    [4][P][+][K] = +4
    Ducking [P][+][K] = +6
    Slipping Left/Slipping Right [P][+][K] = ±0
    Slipping Left/Slipping Right [P][+][K][K] = +2
    Slipping Left/Slipping Right [P][+][K][P] = +5
    Sway Back [P] = -2*
    [1][P][+][G] = +8
    [1][K][+][G] = -3**

    *This move is now akin to Sway Back [P][+][K] in VF5 Version C aside from the fact that you can enter stances from it.

    **The video says ±0, but mudanadoryokusuki provided a note in the description informing us that it was because it connected as a side hit.


    I didn't recall seeing any frame data for [​IMG][3][P] and [3][P][+][K].

    The rest of the data in the videos shows the frames from going into his derivative stances from his various moves. The frame counter assumes that the player enters the stances and waits for Brad to recover rather than the advantage Brad has should he attack with fastest timing from his stances. I didn't feel that this data was noteworthy, and is therefore not transcribed here.
     
  14. Libertine

    Libertine Well-Known Member Content Manager Brad Silver Supporter Content Coordinator

    The reason why asked this in the first place was because of this video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxWw__Qpn-U

    It is called a combo by mudanadoryokusuki (say that three times fast). However, in this video I saw it guarded at 1:00:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIwes-IVWok

    So I guess my question has now been officially answered. Thanks for everyone's input.
     
  15. tonyfamilia

    tonyfamilia Well-Known Member

  16. Libertine

    Libertine Well-Known Member Content Manager Brad Silver Supporter Content Coordinator

  17. Happy_Friend

    Happy_Friend Well-Known Member

    I heard AM2 took out shoo shoo
     
  18. tonyfamilia

    tonyfamilia Well-Known Member

    That was weird but maybe the Brad player didn't do it fast enough and the Aoi player is really fast at rolling out of the way.

    Happy Friend, don't hate on the shoo shoo. The shoo shoo wants to visit you in Happy Land. It wants to be your friend. It just wants to be happy, like you.
    Love the shoo shoo and the shoo shoo will love you back... but hate the shoo shoo and there's no telling what the shoo shoo might doo doo.
     
  19. AkiraZero

    AkiraZero Well-Known Member

    Happy, at least they don't have the snoo snoo in this game. Be thankful for that.
     
  20. Happy_Friend

    Happy_Friend Well-Known Member

    I don't know what Tony means and I don't know what snoo-snoo means. I like the idea of VF5R though. Now I have a new set of move for Brad and Shun and Vanessa and Eileen that I will never understand!

    At least Lau has that dope low stagger...
     

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