VF5R Jeffry changes

Now that the full movelist is out ( http://rapidshare.com/files/132273359/vf5r_all.pdf.html ), time for confirmation of some impressions from the R vids:

attacks:

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif: command change for elbow ~ hammer

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif: old 64p, tranjef showed some nasty 40% life setups off of this, he seems to indicate it executes a little faster.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif: high, mid; can go to threat after P

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif: mid, high; can go to threat after first P

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif: mid, combos ? into ground hit-throw /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif or /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif when it downs

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif: not a movelist change, but it seems to me that they've reduced the float on MC so that 2kg wont combo, but increased the ability to delay /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif: can now go to threat after P+K, still has the hit-throw on second hit counterhit; I think p+k's animation changed to look like the second hit of P6P, but not sure.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif: different hit effect, not sure what combos are good after this now

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif: still a hit-throw, name says choke slam but dont think i've seen the old choke slam.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif: mid, torpedo headbutt, so probably his new dashing headbutt

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif: hell dunk hammer, changed command for old /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif: mid, no more bob sapp string.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif: high, his new hit-throw that knocks opp off to the side

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:mid,mid new jumping elbow ~ uppercut. 66p afterwards seems to combo for 50-60 dmg. hopefully non-clashing like wolf's

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif: mid, kenka kick, probably same as his old /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif but dont think i've seen it

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif: mid, this is the one that looks vaguely like jacky's 33K. loss of low halfcircular, oh well.


Threat stance:

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif: high high mid. first two hits look doublefisted and halfcircular, but who knows

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif: old P guard-hit-throw

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif: mid, special mid, 2nd hit seems to float

no more threat catch throw, so hopefully ppk is half-circular in opposite direction from 6p

Throws:

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif is gone, guess his throws have been de-emphasized.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif another ring-out threat, looks like opp can't just ukemi like the other directions

wallthrows:
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif old /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif wallthrow

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif old /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif wallthrow

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif raging rush == his old threat catch throw animation

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif high wall throw splash mountain dunk, half wall throw splash mountain hammer (anyone seen the half wall version?)

I'm sure i've missed something, chime in if you've got more info. I'll compare move names for the new mid commands in a bit.

 

Hmm, I'm obviously not seeing the potential here, because, other than the addition of a catch throw from standing, I don't see what would push him from the lowest tiers right up into the S tier.

Anyone care to give their interpretations on the changes?

 

Jeff wasn't lowest-tier in 5c, more like mid.

He doesn't have a catch throw at all anymore in R, as far as I can tell. They took out the one from threat, and reused the animation for a normal wallthrow. Other downsides i've seen are one less throw direction, reduced PK punishment damage and reduced knee damage.

Speculation from videos on the positive side of his changes:

Threat has changed a lot, and he has a lot more entries into it. Threat K,P will combo on normal hit for around 40 points if it isn't delayed. This gives a little more incentive for opponents to stand up when they see threat stance. You can still combo if the first hit MCs, for around 70ish? When people do stand up, its not as simple without the catch throw, but . . . Threat PPK will combo on normal hit if they try to dodge ?half or full circ? for around 50 points. Threat 6P works on high guard, and now also on hit, so it can do like 1/2 lifebar on MC...

It looks like 4KP may be hit-checkable now, and they changed the animation so the P will hopefully whiff less often.

And there's the torpedo headbutt etc wall stuff, but as far as I can tell that's mostly shenanigans.

 

I see; thanks for the interpretation.

I thought '/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif raging rush == his old threat catch throw animation' meant he had a catch from normal stance, but I was mistaken.

From what you've said, it seems like he's more about Threat mix-ups now, but with the removal of the catch from Threat, it seems like it'll be a bit harder to get damage from it. It still doesn't look like it's enough to push him into the very highest ranks, but I guess playability is a big factor.

Maybe I'll look for some Jeff videos to see what people are doing.

Thanks again.

 

You'll see a lot of Jeffs winning. In most jap vids on youtube they aren't even relying on throws very much. It's mostly about threat and high damage combos.

FC df+P~threat looks very good. uf+P+K,P is serious business. I really like the new db+K+G too.
And I'm not sure if they've been buffed but some players rely on b,df+P evasive properties a lot more than what I used to see.

 

Yeah, I use b,df+P a lot because of its evasive and sabaki-beating properties, so I'm hoping it's still useful for that.

The moves you highlight do seem to have quite a lot of potential to them. I'm wondering if they've don anything to the Kenka Hook; I find it to be useful when my opponent is rising from being knocked down (don't know the technical term), as it's safe, half-circular, and allows for almost half-bar damage. I haven't seen anyone use it in a video yet, so I'm a little worried.

It almost seems like he'll be played like Kage/Sarah with the whole 'stance set-up' thing, and less like a standard powerhouse.

Anyway, I'll keep search for videos (only found a couple on YouTube); any more interpretations will be appreciated.