VF5R Kage Changes

I am not liking the changes I am reading so far. I don't want to complain because I have not played R as of yet, but from what I am reading, it sounds like they are detracting from what makes him a ninja. The TFT I could careless about. I will miss the previous 4,6 p+g throw. The absence of the 9p+g, 4k+g losing its sabaki properties, no rolls from Jumonji, and no more manual punch counter feels like they are stripping away his trickery tactics, movement, and some basics of taijistsu altogether. I am sure players will soon find different tools to get the job done, but man are they removing some of the classic elements to him. Shun is looking to be the better trick character now.


A?!

 

The new Kage looks more like Kage's lost, evil twin brother or something...

A little off topic but it'd be cool if they included "classic" versions of characters in a future VF incarnation

 

Looks like the second P from Shippuujin stance PP is a standalone attack now?? Anyone else notice that?

 

Ahh yeah that's what I meant ^_^ So the old f+p+k,p is gone eh?

 

I, for one, welcome the nerfs to Kage. The more the merrier! We all know hurricane stance was bullshit, glad to see it got whacked in the face with a MC nerf stick.

(all my losses to his bullshit stances, catch throws, TFT combos, and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif haven't made me biased at at all... on an unrelated note, horray for buffs for Shun and Blaze!)

 

Good to see you. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

 

... Next, Kage loses his /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif. It's coming, you know it.

 

Here is the full move list for Kage in VF5 Final Tuned:

.
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>>Kage<<

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (Happens @50th Frame, Nh 15 Dmg, Ch 150 Dmg)
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif + /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

==End==

>>Je...
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I despise the "changes" to Kage. He has received almost nothing but nerfs with very little to compensate. But what really pisses me off is the complete removal of certain moves and properties like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and all its stance equivalents, and of course the loss of sabaki on /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif. Completely removing moves is always a bad idea unless they were game breaking and nothing Kage could do in VF5 V.C was game breaking. The only reason people complain about Kage so much is that a lot of really good players happen to use him. He has plenty of weaknesses and his damage potential was never as ridiculous as say Wolf's.

What particularly annoys me is that other characters, like Shun and Jeffry have received HUGE buffs. Shun was already a bit above most of the cast and in R he seems plain unfair.

I'm really hoping R gets some revisions because it doesn't seem balanced at all. As it is, I'm probably going to be picking up another main if the current R ever gets a console port. Kage is already sort of hard to play as, and I'm nowhere not good enough to deal with all the nerfs right now. The only difference is now he has no pay off, being in the middle tier at best and low by what I've seen.

Tiers don't usually mean a hell of a lot in the recent VF titles, but R just might change that.

 

I was also disappointed when I saw the changes to kage in R
maybe it makes the game more balanced I dunno I aint no expert but for me things will get a lot worse /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

one thing that I have thought about is why do they have to nerf down so much? why cant they only upgrade the other characters

 

I saw a clip where it seems like /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will float on mC, though I don't know if that is the case with opponents evading the wrong way -- I don't think so though. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will be very difficult to use in VF5R.

Even though on paper /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif looks stronger in VF5 compared to VF4 because of the additional /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif which can be hit checked, in reality it was a LOT less useful because failed evades only take 21 frames versus the 23 frames required to execute /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif. This means that unlike VF4, you cannot use /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif to hit opponents out of a failed evade! Even more so especially with the ability to cancel evades with dashes in VF5.

- In VF4, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif had 3 uses: beating failed evades, beating evades in the wrong direction, and going under high attacks.

- In VF5, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif came to 2 uses: beating evades in the wrong direction and going under high attacks.

- Now, in VF5R, AM2 takes one more use away and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif will be used pretty much only for going under high attacks. I'm betting, as Myke suggested, that /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif has a better reward-risk ratio than /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif for beating evades in the wrong direction. Given that the average combo from /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is still only ~50 points and the high execution risk...I just don't see this move being used much in VF5R.

(The above is the real reason AM2 gave Kage a follow-up /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif after /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif in VF5...because AM2 knew the move is going to get blocked a lot more compared to VF4. The move looks better on paper, but if you take the VF5 system into account, it actually became much, much less useful. In VF5R it'll be barely worth using).

 

Actually Kages unescapable uf+P+G throw is very good, especially when combined with some safe on block midhitting launchers.. But I agree, removal of whole moves feels silly. I face the same with my own characters.. Losing the catch throw will hurt Kage.

 

Some info from the newest arcadia for Kage.

3pp, nh no combos, 2 hits, opp down. frist p blocked, second p counter hit, opp also down. 3pp counter hit, combo possible.

4k, no more sabaki.

shippu stance. 2kk, frist k evadeable(to stomach side).

4pk, powered up. normal hit, opp down.

66p+k, mid attack. normal hit combo possible. blocked small disadv.

1p+k(high), new move. looks like jacky's eyepoke move(46p+k). very powerful. normal hit pk guranted.

4p+kp, high and low. frist hit is half cir, which is great. second is low and u can delay it. blocked nothing guratend, safe move.





Some my own impression after playing R's Kage:

Kage is not weak in R, but u do need to try harder to win now. cuz he was toooooo good in 5 LOL (well compare with other characters's upgrade, he is kind weak...)

frist, about kage's p. from what i understood from arcadia. it seems there are 4 character's p are faster than others in R. those 4 are, kage, eileen, pai and lion. good news for kage players i guess.

from vfbbs: those 4 character's p seems to be 11f, others are 12f. all characters lp are 12f. lion's lp is 12f as well.

3pp, pretty useless now imo. evaded or blocked u fuked up. but after 3pp ch, it seems that u have more space to combo now, stuff like 3pp(ch) p p 2p+kk, possible in R.

4k lost sabaki, but stil good. stil good vs okis. 4k strings (as main tool of kage's backturn game)stil very powerfull, and it gives alot pressure.

shippu stance big nerfing, shippu 3p and 6p range shortered(alot!!). if wiffed then u fuked.

Standard shippu 3p combos:

3p 2p+kk or 46p+kp (all characters)

3p om(back side) lp(or p) 3kpp possible (vs some of characters, like sarah etc)

6p combos:

6p lp 3kpp i think this one is the best for now, it does decent dmg and not so hard to pull off and it works on all characters.

6p lp dpod possible (i think weight up until goh or leifei, not so sure) does good dmg, but recover isnt so good.

4pk good move, 4p elbow class and fast, small disadv. now in R after jmj's auto p reversal, u can go for 4pk, opp down. good stuff.

66p+k(mid), use this move alot. cuz u can combo after normal hit, good against crouching opp. range seems to be ok. bit slow though.

1p+k, kage really needs this move. kick ass, ass kicking move. its fast, very fast. i think prob around 14f. sometimes i use it agaisnst failed evade, works good. 1p+k counter hit, u can dash in do a throw, the dmg connects.

4p+kp, safe move try to use it whenever u can.

kpk, same speed as kage's elbow. counter tool. kp into shippujin possible. last hit k blocked, kage pushes opp's away.(like akira's 46p+k+g blocked)

6p+k, slow but it can makes ur opp turn around. after hit, nitaku between throw or p+k(double hands attack, cant be sabakied, counter hit opp crumples)

k+g, mid. slow but combo possible after normal hit.(k+g, 2p+kk, for high weight, k+g, 3k+g)

TFT combos:

tft knee p 66p+k 46p+kp(or 2p+kk) 63?
tft knee p 66p+k 4pk 64
tft knee p 66p+k 7k+g (for high weight)
tft knee p k+g 4pk 69
tft knee dpod 73
tft knee p dpod 74

wall tft combos:

tft k+g p k+g 46p+kp 73?
tft k+g knee 7k+g over 80s?

trying to use more upper(2_3p) and knee(46k), thats where kage's dmg source coming from.

the little knee, 46k. becuz the command changed, lp(ch) into 46 is possible. too stuff.

ok last thing, i am not good player and i sux. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

hope u ejoyed reading.

 

Nice info!

Great news for pple who already mastered dpod.