[VFDC CHOICE] Any Vanessa Expert working on a Dojo Guide?

Re: I dont think im an expert, but heres a guide anyway.

I appreciate the fact that you thought of replying, but i sure would have appreciated it alot more if you had actually read the post first. If you dont have time to read it now, then wait until you do have time to post a reply. I dont mean to be rude, but myself, and many of the people who have contributed to this thread have put a fair bit of time and effort into their posts, and its kind of insulting to see you just ignore it all and post nothing but a couple of little things that have already been covered.

 

Juggles and Combo Starters, Oh My

I don't regard Vanessa's juggle/combo game as one of the better ones in the VF4. She has a good poke game and a decent counter/stomach crumble game with the Intruder Hook (Gu+P) and Intercept Body Blow (Gd+P). Both are kind of sidestep motions with mid hits. This scheme produces mostly bounce juggles from the stomach crumble. I'm still working on a small supplement on follow-ups to those two moves <a target="_blank" href=http://virtuafighter.com/versuscity/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=versus&Number=13187&page=&view=&sb=&o=&fpart=all&vc=1>found near the bottom of this link</a>. I know so very little about the greater VF workings and terminologies used in communicating exactly what is being done...

She also has a counter/head crumble game with the Grinding Slicer (Gu+K) and Grinding Back Knuckle (Gd+K). Both are kind of sidestep motions with mid hits. But it's pretty tough to run this scheme in real time. The only good follow-ups to this are her pounces. Let me know if you have success with it. I'm still learning a lot about her options. Vanessa is such a deep character...

Here are some other juggle starters I know Vanessa has:

<font color=white>Both Stances</font color=white>
Leg Bomber (db+K+G)
Lightning Smash (b,f+P+K)
Half Moon Kick (*K, aka ws+K)

<font color=white>Muay Thai Stance Only</font color=white>
Uppercut (df+P) [one of her best starters]
Lightening Elbow (f+P+K) [one of her fastest starters]

She has a couple other crumbling moves but I stay away from one (Back Charge Kick, b,b+K+G) because it can get abused a lot. It definitely looks cool and it is pretty effective against n00bs and AIs. Experts will see it coming, block, evade and even reverse it.

 

Re: Juggles and Combo Starters, Oh My

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

She has a couple other crumbling moves but I stay away from one (Back Charge Kick, b,b+K+G) because it can get abused a lot. It definitely looks cool and it is pretty effective against n00bs and AIs. Experts will see it coming, block, evade and even reverse it.

<hr></blockquote>

You can actually just cancel it and do a throw. Alot of people fall for that just because they like to dodge or reverse it.

 

Round Opener Suggestions

<font color=orange>These are just some openers I came across:

Defensive Stance
1) b,f+P+K > d+K > d+K
2) df+P+K -> df+P+K+G
3) df+P+K -> d+P+K+G
4) G,u|d+P -> df+P+K+G
5) G,u|d+P -> d+P+K+G
6) b,b+K+G -> df+P+K+G
7) db+K+G > PPPK > d+K+G
8) P,throw

MT
1) f+P+K -> f+P+K -> d+K -> d+K -> d+K+G
2) G,u|d+P -> df+P+K+G
3) G,u|d+P -> d+P+K+G
4) f,f+P+K,P,P
5) df+P ->*K -> df+K
6) df+P,K -> df+K
6) db+K+G > PPPK > d+K+G
7) b,b+K+G -> df+P+K+G
8) P,throw

Her pounces (df+K or u+P) can be thrown in at the end of any of these but they are not guaranteed. Hopefully, these will give you other ideas to launch into...</font color=orange>

 

Vanessa's good moves

I think I forgot to mention MT:f,f+k+g. Circular and close to 50-50 when blocked, knockdown. Is it special high?? good mixed up with p+k,p for okizemi as it is reversed high.

 

Re: Vanessa's good moves

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Is it special high??

<hr></blockquote>

Yup~

 

Re: Vanessa's good moves

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

I think I forgot to mention MT:f,f+k+g. Circular and close to 50-50 when blocked, knockdown. Is it special high?? good mixed up with p+k,p for okizemi as it is reversed high.

<hr></blockquote>
Never seen you used that before...... IS THAT YOUR SECRET WEAPON!?!? /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Re: Vanessa's good moves

hehe, waiting for next tournament. You everytime reverse mid /versus/images/icons/smile.gif no lah I think the Daioh movies got quite a number of Vanessa uses this moves. Just haven't really tried to use it.

 

Re: Vanessa's good moves

you mean the verB ones? Cos there is a recent daioh movie on a vanessa wiping out a team. But he only uses defensive mode.

 

Re: Vanessa's good moves

I appreciate ur help Sayow u seem to have studied venessa for a long time . I think my screename should really belong 2 u

 

Re: Vanessa's good moves

"She has a couple other crumbling moves but I stay away from one (Back Charge Kick, b,b+K+G) because it can get abused a lot. It definitely looks cool and it is pretty effective against n00bs and AIs. Experts will see it coming, block, evade and even reverse it."

hmmmmm, dont know i use it all the time and i can catch some of the best players we got here. im not saying abuse it, but maybe go for her fake out of it, at least thats what i try to do. anyway do you guys have any good setups for her Mount and what things do you do after you get up from it, i almosnt never use the one retated punch after you mount

thanx
Red

 

Couple of Questions

Here are a list of things i want to know from any other Vane players.

1) What do you use to punish rising attacks (both d+K and K versions)? For example, do you just back away and let it whiff? try to reverse? Major counter with a particular mid hit (if so, which one)?

My strategy is to db+K+G against low rising attacks, because it hops over low and can score a float if it connects. I also db+P+K reverse any K rising attack that begins in one of the three positions that determine whether it will be semi circular, and thus reversable (faht, fdha, fdht IF they roll to the side), and in case of a full circular K rising attack, i will b,b,(b)+K+G to make their attack whiff and give them a stomach crumple for their troubles.

2) To those who use the low cut-in sabaki DS b,df+P+K against low punches, i would like to know what the best guaranteed followup is. I end up either f,f+P,P or f,f+K ing at people afterwards.

3) What is Vanes most damaging float, or Wall float, including any sort of set up hit? (like MT df+K (wall), db+K+G (wall) df+P,K, df+K which is somewhere around 100 or more, cant remember) These ones do not have to be practical, or easy to do, like the ones i listed in my first draft, im basically just looking for the Maximum Possible Damage. Just because i am curious to know what it is. BTW, this means NON-TECHABLE.. you can include some that can be teched, but make sure to state that clearly when you post it.

4) If you have a custom string, or flow chart suggestion that you feel is very strong, and worth putting in a faq as an example, then i would love to see it.
Here is an example of a custom string i often use (bear in mind that i vary it constantly, but this is like the basics of it)

DS = d+P, ws+P, b,f+K,P, db+P, d+P etc
Variations include adding the standing P, or df+P for high fast pokes, or adding a throw during a counterhit, or if the opponent is guarding too much, or tries to evade. Also, if the ws+P hits as a counter you can f,f+P,P or f,f+K at him. If the b,f+K+P pushes the opponent too far (or any move for that matter) you can try db+K as a low followup. Also add the db+P whenever you feel a low counterhit coming, and b,f+K,P when a high or mid is expected. Lastly, you can substitute the db+P for the b,df+P+K against a low puch, and the b,f+K,P can be turned into a reversal if you can anticipate what your opponents counter hit will be.

Blah, so anyway, looking for your ideas, so i can test your theories out.

Thanks for your time

 

Re: Couple of Questions

1) When I am in DS, usually i will just back off a bit and change stance. If opponent rising kick high or low, they will miss nicely and f+p+k will hit nicely. If I am in MT, I will do b,b+k+g.

2) P+K,P is a good followup after DS b,d/f+p+k. Leaves you in advantage too.

3) No idea never tried.....

4) P+K,P -> WS P is strong in DS. Vary between that and P+K,P -> throw. Almost after anything in DS, you can follow up with b,f+k,p. eg, f,f+k, d/f+k,etc. In MT, I usually end up with f+p+k. eg, kkpp(blocked),etc.

 

Re: Couple of Questions

1) What do you use to punish rising attacks (both d+K and K versions)? For example, do you just back away and let it whiff? try to reverse? Major counter with a particular mid hit (if so, which one)?

I always mix it up, ill got into mt stance and jack them up or let it whiff a few times to let them think there safe , then start mixing in reversals or even throws

REd

 

Re: Couple of Questions

Couple more questions:

1) Whats the best followup (best guaranteed if possible) to the db+P+G throw? Also the best followup for throwing someone into a wall with that move.

2) What move is best for performing a backstagger while in MT stance. I use df+K but the timing is incredibly tricky. Much harder than the timing on the DS df+K. I was hoping there would be a better move. Related question: Whats the best stomach crumple followup from MT stance that will still leave the opponent face down, head towards. I just use the simple f+K. Lastly, What would be the best backstagger followup from MT stance. Due to my difficulty getting the MT backstagger i havent been able to test out the options well enough.

BTW, i have a bunch of new backstaggery stuff for DS that ill post soon. Once i got it all double checked.

3) Just a minor concern. I have a vid here in which the vane always follows up a counter hit ws+P with df+K,fc+K (DS). He connected with it twice, and missed once. The opponent seems to techroll the last kick a whole lot. I cant remember if ive been able to do it cleanly yet. At any rate, if you test it out, and figure out how to get it on the characters without them techrolling the last hit, i would like to know how (timing, tricks etc) I use db+K to do the fc+K quicker but its still not fast enough. I have a hard time thinking this japanese vane player would utilize that followup if it wasnt guaranteed.

4) Not a question, but just a request: KEEP ON POSTING!!!!
Anything i dont already have, or any errors in what i have written, or personal strategies you would like to share are all appreciated. Need... more... replies. I want this to turn out to be a good faq, and im not conceited enough (or good enough) to think i can do it on my own. I need the help of other Vanessa players.

One last thing, the second draft of the FAQ should be up later in the week, and i think ill make it its own thread when i do, just so people dont have to sift through a 4-5 page thread just to check it out. Look forward to getting help on that when it comes out.

thanks for your time

 

Re: Couple of Questions

1) d/b+p+g is useless without wall hit. For wall hit, f+p,k,k, pounce (DS) is very strong.

2) I dun really like backstagger stuff as quite rare you will get those. For stomach crumble, easiest is f,f+k,d+k or dodge p+k+g. At open stance, g,u+p (dodge towards Vanessa's back) you can connect f,f+k,d+k,k.

3) the last low kick depends on the opponent weight. You can check out for who it is confirmed in Training mode. The point is that even if opponent techrolls the low kick Vanessa recovers faster or almost as fast so no risk.

 

Re: Couple of Questions

"1) d/b+p+g is useless without wall hit. For wall hit, f+p,k,k, pounce (DS) is very strong. "

Agreed! I did this once on a aoi player trying to be slick, and i got caught in that rev she has from back turn, but if they bounce off the wall, try to go into MT stance drop an elbow in them then fp,p, k, down k or go for the tackle without the punch, while rising df k for some little damage

Red

 

Re: Couple of Questions

I checked that final kick on Akira, Lei, Jeffrey and Pai, and with them set to techroll, it never once hit any of them. Are you sure you have tried this move with the AI set to techroll it? Because it sure doesnt seem guaranteed on anyone, regardless of weight right now.

 

Re: Vanessa's good moves

Thanks, Vanessasman. I'm a student at VF just like you. VF is like a huge cup where you and I can only seem to see bits and pieces of it. Some see the smooth shiny surface, others see the firm handle, still others can see the intricate inlay. We're all discovering this wonderous world and this marvelous character together. As far as I am concerned, everyone here is a VF master...

Thanks for the post, Mike. One can never have enough combo knowledge, eh? Cheers...