VF's Interesting Character Debate?

Discussion in 'General' started by masterpo, Mar 2, 2020.

  1. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    Recently on his stream, MainManSWE one of Tekken's high level players commented that Virtua Fighter doesn't have interesting characters in comparison to Tekken. And this is a comment that we run across from time to time, and can be expected from those who don't play the game.:rolleyes: At the same time MainManSWE and other high level Tekken players routinely denigrate Tekken's story mode.:confused:

    At the same time we have on VFDC those players that could care less about story mode, and those players that literally don't want a story mode in VF and would rather have any story mode time, effort and resources put into two player or online player modes:meh: But yet these same players will argue with the Tekken, DOA, or SC community that VF's characters are just as interesting if not far more interesting than the fighters in other fighting games:p

    Both parties are missing the big point here. :oops: The reason why MainManSWE and players from other 3D fighters feel that the characters in their games are interesting and the Virtua Fighter characters are bland or not interesting is because their games have a story mode, character into and ending animations and Virtua Fighter does not :cautious: As much as the 'High Level' Players in all of these fighters deride story mode :whistle: Its precisely the story mode that gives the other fighting game characters the sense of being interesting and the lack of a story mode has the opposite effect on Virtua Fighter.

    • Tekken - Has a Story mode , character Intros, Endings vignettes
    • DOA - Has a Story mode, character Intros, Endings vignettes
    • SC - Has a STORY MODE, character Intros, Endings vignettes
    • MK - Has a Story Mode, character Intros, Endings vignettes
    • VF - Has NO Story Mode, No Character Vignettes

    So the fact that VF has NO Story Mode is the reason why MainManSWE and others perceive VF characters as not being as interesting as Tekken, DOA, or SC characters. The high level players in these other FG (i.e. Tekken, DOA,SC, MK) and on VFDC are ignorant about the relationship between a story mode, character vignettes, and the perception of how interesting characters in a fighting game are perceived.

    Its not the actual graphical design differences between the characters in VF vs those in DOA, or Tekken etc. Its the story mode and vignettes that add the extra dimension to the characters in Tekken, DOA etc. Even if the story modes are bad, short, uninteresting, phony, ridiculous, incoherent, they still give the characters a perceived added dimension.

    So on VFDC we can't have it both ways. We can't claim interesting characters and chide story mode at the same time. We can't dismiss the value of a story mode out of hand and at the same time try to defend how interesting our characters should be perceived relative to other FG:ROTFL:

    Story modes and character vignettes add a perceived depth and dimension to the characters in other fighting games, that the VF characters don't and can't benefit from because VF has no story mode. Its as simple as thato_O

    IMO VF characters have far more flavor than characters in Tekken, or DOA, but that's because I've taken out the time to dig into the back story from wiki's, and interviews, and anime series, and game manuals etc. So I know the backstories behind the VF characters and J6. But not every player will put in this kind of effort to find out what's up with the characters in VF. Therefore many VF players ignorantly capitulate and kow tow to the assertion that VF characters are bland, and not as interesting as Tekken, DOA, SC, and MK characters.

    The real issue here is that Tekken, DOA, SC, MK, and others for better or worse , good or bad have story modes, and the Virtua Fighter Series Does not.:cool:
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
    gido likes this.
  2. beanboy

    beanboy Well-Known Member


    Don't waste your time with their silly theatrics Po.
    The only reason they talk big like that, is because their game is at Evo. And besides, for over more than a decade, certain gamers love to find silly excuses, to trash talk Virtua Fighter, or any fighting game that is not Tekken, not Sony styled, or is not evo friendly, or at evo, or, not heavily balanced patched. Even poor Street Fighter, Mortal kombat, King Of Fighters, and Soul Calibur, despite being games that sadly suck up to the masses, and are balanced patched, nerfed shells of their former selves, suffer from those same trash talkers as well.

    If sega didn't make so many silly business decisions, and if life and the gaming media, was kind to sega, and other stuff, VF's situation might have been different. And Yu Suzuki leaving sega many years ago, was a clear indication that sega was in a bad postion. But at least, he is interested in making a new VF, so that is good news. The only problem now, is if sega is ready to do a new VF.

    Or are they doing one behind the scenes?;)

    Anyway, to answer your question, VF has characters, just as interesting as any other fighting game. Even when I was a soul calibur player, gamers would talk about how cool Akira Yuki is, with the Ryu headband, and how Lau looked like a villian, that came from an old chinese kung fu movie. A few months ago on some other forum, people who were non VF players, posted a pic of Akira Yuki doing his famous elbow pose, and a handful of them, were commenting on how cool he is and calling him the cool dude. And a few of them even said, they wish Tekken had better character design. It's not the first time I heard people say that. No joke.
    (Unfortunately, I can't remember which game forum. Lol!)

    In the case of story, I agree with alot of people here. Story is the least important thing for VF. Virtua Fighter was always a series, that historically and saleswise, didn't need a story to sell many games. VF should concentrate on giving characters more moves, adding more mechanics, expand the gameplay and if possible, then concentrate on a story later on. Probably as dlc. Hopefully it doesn't cost too much. And of course, people will say we live in different times, so everything and game company business practices, must change. But to be real, that statement is not always true, and is not fully based in reality.

    I don't think, anyone wants to see a VF game, with some cheesy story, like the ones that alot of certain other fighting games have. Or have an abrupt, half way cliff hanger ending like in DOA6. Most likely they'll sell the other half of DOA6's story as dlc.:p

    And besides, Yu Suzuki and AM2 came up with the story for Shenmue, so it shouldn't be difficult to make a simple story for VF. The story snippets we get in the VF game manual, even in the character bios, is indication that VF does have a good story. Like the interesting story, about the mystery person, who helped Vanessa and pals escape J6, and Shun Di's mystery student who infiltrated J6. Wait..........could it be the same person? o_O

    Sorry for the long post.
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
    masterpo likes this.
  3. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    Yea man, we're mostly on the same page. The other thing about Tekken and DOA is not only did they have story modes (good or bad) character vignettes (good or bad) both of them have have movies based on their characters. Tekken even had a CG movie. I won't mention all the Mortal Kombat movies. So this does give the perception that their characters are more interesting than VF characters:( Of course I know better, but these story modes, character vignettes, and movies impact how Tekken ,DOA, MK etc characters are perceived in the FGC.

    Now VF did have an Anime series, but it does not include all of the characters. And like you posted, there are bits and pieces of VF's story in the game manual. VF doesn't necessarily have to put in a story mode. There are other ways AM2 could tell the VF story, e.g. they could put out manga, anime, youtube short stories a new VF RGP, etc. While non of this stuff is necessary it would help promote the VF characters. That would help some of the misconception about the VF characters being uninteresting.

    Also if you show a group of people who are not into VF, Tekken, DOA, MK etc the character rosters of all of those games. you'll find VF characters in many cases are more appealing to general public:ROTFL: I know, I've tried this experiment (more than a few times) on family and friends who were not into the FG community:LOL:

    Yea, a story mode is not necessary, but if done well it would help and could be fun. And yes it definitely should be the last priority after characters, modes, stages, moves, customizations, TBH the story doesn't even have to be in the game. Sega could put out a good VF manga, or another VF anime, series hell make a VF RPG (like Shenmue started out to be);)
  4. gido

    gido Well-Known Member

    Oh boy, this is gonna be a long one...Why did I just now find this lol? If you all didnt know now, I'm very passionate about a story mode for VF for the main reason you have stated in your op...

    It gives characters dimensions

    I love that. It gives characters a meaning, a personality, not through just gameplay intros and win quotes, but through pure emotion, charisma and depth that they all can have.

    I was going to start a small topic on Jacky on a Jacky page but I guess it proves it point here as well...

    Jacky Bryant is one of my favorite fighting characters of all time. Out of all the JKD users in every fighting game and as just a regular fighting game character, he is one of the best and iconic one. I would even further say moreso than Akira, even though he's supposedly the poster boy. But here's some reasons why...
    1. Originality. He's not a clone. He has his own style. Instead of him yelling Bruce Lee war cries when he attacks (ex. "Wutahhh!!"), he says "Yeah!!!!" And "Come on!" That little detail is originality. He does not dress like Bruce Lee, nor act like him unlike Fei, Law and sometimes even Lui Kan, something even Akira failed at for having resemblance to Ryu for example.
    2. He actually has a detailed and convincing story which is related to the Virtua Fighter plot. When people mention Virtua Fighters characters being boring or stale they dont know much about Jacky. Even though some of these characters mentioned above have a decent backstory we all may know of, he takes it a bit further but just simply being different in both looks and personality and style.
    And alot of people here are absolutely right. A Virtua Fighter game does not need a story mode. However, it should have one for the sake of casual play. If not a story than at least an arcade ending after the point on defeating Dural.

    However again, alot of people simply just wanna know What is Virtua Fighter? Why are they fighting? Heck, even I wanna know. That's when I started to watch the anime..

    And from the very first episode, I knew this was going to be good. I can actually finally relate and understand and even care for Akira for once..He's not just a guy who screams out "Orah orah orah!" He has a personality, he's not stiff, he's a completely new and easy going Akira. Yea he may have a cliche personality but its 10x better than what we get in the games. This Akia is what I would have wanted for the VG series, someone with at least a dubbed voice :sneaky: :p and has a more light hearted showing charm but can be a straight badass when needed.

    Now dont go on google, but can anyone tell me what you know about Vanessa Lewis?

    Tell me what you know about Brad Burns? Why should I play as him, because he's a kickboxer? Because Vanessa is a military fighter who does Vale Tudo? This for a casual player is not enough. Honestly, when I first seen Vanessa ever since 4 (when she wasn't white washed :cautious:) I thought she was pretty dope. Couldnt say much about her other than her being the "black girl in VF" But she look like a fun character to play as.


    This is just one of my favorite commercials from back in the day, I just love the presentation in this commercial it made the characters look sick!! And after not ever owning a DC at the time and not playing VF3, I was ready to get back into VF4. But after a while of playing these characters you get to wonder what do you actually know about these characters? What can they do. I know the majority of the fanbase here dont care for such small detail like that. But building a compelling character is such an important thing.

    I didnt wanna overwhelm anybody so much but I like these kinds of topics. I'm just gonna leave with an old vid from fg enthusiast, Maximillian Dood about this.

    masterpo likes this.
  5. Thesch28

    Thesch28 Well-Known Member

    Virtua Fighter characters have good designs at least on paper, and i say on paper because some characters just look awful or worse than in past games in the VF5 series.
    like come on bro... Jeffry used to be cool, in 5 he's just weird and ugly.
    But anyways.. Yeah VF characters are interesting while still being down to earth for the most part (not kage) which is something very unique if you ask me.
    But the lack of prologues, endings, story modes, etc. really hold back VF's appeal for newcomers how are people supposed to make a connection with the characters without knowing their intentions, their accomplishments, their challenges.
    Yeah, anyone could read their stories in the manuals (which are actually pretty good for the most part!) but that just feels like reading some kind of document about a historic figure and to many that's boring.
    People would care a lot more about the characters if the story from the manuals was presented to the players IN THE GAME in a cool way.
  6. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter


    I think VF's lack of cut scenes, intros, endings, and a story mode are likely budget related. They simply may not have had the money to do it. Clearly AM2 has the talent, but I think another famous game broke the bank for Sega, and they may not have had the money for any CG movies to be put into the VF series:(
    gido and Thesch28 like this.
  7. Thesch28

    Thesch28 Well-Known Member

    VF Kids
    beanboy likes this.
  8. beanboy

    beanboy Well-Known Member

    I definitely agree with that. The same thing with Lion. Lion and Jeffrey had more personality in the older games. And Jeffrey looked way cool, and acted way cooler in the older games. He had that sega style charm to him, that was not present in later VF games. Even with the voice acting. Also, I miss super whiney Lion.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
    Thesch28 likes this.
  9. gido

    gido Well-Known Member

    Yea there were many questionable design choices in VF3 that killed it for me...Kage, a ninja we're talking about, wearing sheer top with white pants and some dress shoes? :cautious:

    Sarah Bryant dressed as a hooker? :holla:

    Wolf, a canadian, raised in a native american environment....dress as a cowboy? o_O

    What were they really thinking at the time? Everything was so off. Jeffry and Lion were much better in design and voice in VF2. And yes him simply saying "I wiiiiiiinn!" was so much more iconic than him yelling all the time like a lunatic. Lion didnt sound like a whiney kid back then. He had a sophisticated charm to him.
  10. beanboy

    beanboy Well-Known Member

    Lion: I don't make allowances for old men.

    Wolf: Oh shut up!

  11. Thesch28

    Thesch28 Well-Known Member

    First of all those are not white pants those are silver reflective pants, and yes that outfit is wack it's hilarious how ridiculous kage looks, it's interesting how you can still dress him like that in FS, yeah that Sarah outfit was bad, also ever since VF3 Wolf has been considered to have some native american blood you can still see this in VF5, i don't see anything wrong with that.

    Come on dude VF3 Jeffry is the best Jeffry, He's a happy guy who likes to brag about his mariner power and laugh at those who lose a match against him while he flexes.
    He isn't an overly angry lunatic like in VF4 and VF5.

    Lions is annoying ever since VF2 his voice wasn't as annoying in VF2 tho but there wasn't anything 'sophisticated" about it :V
  12. beanboy

    beanboy Well-Known Member

    Yeah. That Sarah Bryant outfit was always odd.
    And that Kage outfit was a strange design choice.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2020
  13. gido

    gido Well-Known Member

    "I don't make it a habit to fight the elderly!"
    -Lion Rafale​

    That win quote is probably the best ever I heard in any fighting game. At that time, no one would think of saying something snarky, witty like that. Just from that alone, I got the feeling that Lion was some arrogant teenager that you had to hate but you loved to hate him.
    Tricky likes this.
  14. Tricky

    Tricky "9000; Eileen Flow Dojoer"

    SEGA's other IPS are making them tons of money though. Persona 5 to just name one. I don't think SEGA is actually hurting financially.
    masterpo likes this.
  15. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    I'm thinking more about the Sega's budget around the time that VF4 was released. I think Yu Suzuki had just made one of the most expensive video games ever made at the time . It was story driven, very ambitious, and pioneering. Maybe there just wasn't budget left or confidence left to add an elaborate story mode, cut scenes, intros, endings to an Arcade game.:unsure: Right around that time Tekken 4,, Soul Calibur 2, really started pouring on the story mode, intros, endings, galleries etc. Did the Shenmue budget have any impact on what Sega would do for Virtua Fighter in the way of paying for more Mocap, CG programming, producers, directors etc required for cut scenes, intros, ending, blah, blah, blah.

    And I've never been to a Japanese arcade so I dunno whether cut scenes, CGI Movies, elaborate intros, and endings are practical in a Japanese arcade environment.:confused: And if Sega sees VF as primarily an Arcade product,.....:rolleyes:
  16. Ali

    Ali Well-Known Member

    I never thought that VF's lack of CGI and endings are budget related but more of smart use of resources. SEGA was never shy to invest that's how you got the first shenmues and the ongoing Yakuza.

    I think AM2 just focuses on making a game that looks, plays and sounds solid. I want them to continue to focus on that. I don't care about no corny story cutscenes.
    Sonic The Fighters likes this.
  17. lordraptor

    lordraptor Member

    I wouldn't mind VF having extra offline modes, I'd prefer that the story mode/s would be memorable for being good instead of terribly written and full of plot holes like in MK11 and that endings would encourage me to revisit them years in the future rather than be completely worthless like they are in Tekken 7, but at the end of the day, if the core game itself is great and will give me a reason to revisit the game even years after its initial release, I wouldn't complain about no story modes/endings, I guess it's not easy to be creative nowadays when you're a big, triple A title from a big company, maybe that stifles a bit of the creativity that used to be there back in the older days when video games weren't a big, mainstream thing, who knows...

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