Virtua Fighter 4 first impression.

What is Suzuki trying to do? ignite the old vf2 flame or something? Old stages, outfits; I hope we don’t see an old game. =/ Every new VF game in the past has been a giant leap in both computing technology and game-play engine. So far from what’s seen of the VF4 videos, the graphical power of Naomi 2 does not live up to the standards that other VF games brought out with ModelX hardware. The fact VF4 is on Naomi 2 in the first place along with the announcement of the PS2 translation are definitely Sega’s business decisions than the “vision†of Suzuki. I’ve always wondered why Sega spends so much on hardware when Capcom just pumps out SF games on their CPS boards. The first time I saw screenshots of VF3 on vfhome I was so excited I couldn't sleep that night. Tonight however there will be no problem sleeping. This is not to say I am not excited after seeing the VF4 video. I am! It is different this time though, it’s more like “is it gonna be good?†than “how good is it gonna be?†The Graphics… is unimpressive, it’s evolutionary not revolutionary. Don’t expect VF4 to be the king of graphics as VF3 was. I'd keep my fingers crossed on the game-play engine. But it is disconcerting to see Suzuki “going back to the rootsâ€Â. What does that mean? Undulations will be less important? Yes I noticed they were fighting in a flat box too. No advance defensive techniques? Err, can’t double throw escape? Well whatever it will be, it will be different. There will be new players and some of the old players will fade away, just like it was with VF3. Hope I will like VF4.
Things didn’t like:
Noticeable Anti-Aliases issues, comon this isn’t VF3.
Sarah, WTF did they do to her? Just bad…
Pai/Lau’s outfits, too colorful, too much, K I S S pls.
Akira, what is that? A belly??
Wolf, can you do a Tiger uppercut too?
Backgrounds, Where are the spectators??!
Things liked:
Aoi Aoi Aoi
About time Sholin comes in
The settings of the stages make you feel important.
Shun is cool
VF4 will be with me soon!!!

 

I think it's very difficult to say anything about what the gameplay might be like in VF4 judging by what we've seen so far. The VF4 video didn't really show anything but cosmetic changes - new gfx, animations of victory poses and scenery/stages, but almost zero new actual gameplay (save the stuff with the new Monk character - the bit with Pai and Lau doing wome weird inashi'ing is probably nothing but promo-stuff). Practically all the moves were old.

So how far into developement is the game itself? Some rumours say 30%... which leaves me wondering - is the first and most important and hardest thing about the game creating and optimizing a cool gfx engine? Is the very last thing they do decide how many buttons the game will be using? If the answers are yes to both, I'm frankly a bit appalled. But what do I know about creating games? I know it's very humble of me, but perhaps Yu knows more about it than I do.

Thinking back to the days of anticipating VF2 and VF3, I think we had a very hard time predicting what the new games will be like. I also think most of us were very impressed with each new game and the improvements they offered in all areas.

Taken from http://www.coremagazine.com/news/3755.php3 :

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Continuing, he (Yu Suzuki, ed.) spoke about the gameplay system in Virtua Fighter 4. Running on Sega's Naomi2 arcade architecture and slated for translation on the PlayStation 2, the game will utilize Sega's traditional 3-button setup (Punch, Kick, Guard). New to the series, players will have complete control over their characters through an eight-direction 'run' system. Thereby, aside from normal left and right sidestep type movements, players will be able to move freely within environments. Most intriguing however, Suzuki-san discussed plans for a new magnetic card based ranking system. Eventually, players will be able to upload their best records to an Internet database under development dubbed 'VF-NET.'

<hr></blockquote>

The "complete control" and "move freely" parts of that really makes it seem like something almost ground-breakingly new is being introduced in VF4 - true and complete 3D movement in a fighting game. Perhaps one's character will move in the direction one holds the joystick? u/f would circle the opponent into the screen, d/f out from the screen - and maybe d+G will be the ducking movement, with d/b+G being low block and u+G a hop? Imagine FPS-style truly free movement in a fighting game, with the two fighters weaving in and out in various styles and stances with attacks and inashis and reversals being exhanged and countered in an ongoing flow of pure heavenly combat. It's all speculation ofcourse, and thus perhaps simultaneosly both intruiging and pointless to discuss.

But I'll admit, watching that video did give me that warm fuzzy feeling deep inside again. I can't wait for the game to come out.

Some ppl have ventured that if one goes by what we've seen so far, and don't expect any improvements to be made/revealed, VF4 will be a dumbed down version of VF3 - the liniar and perhaps simpler gameplay of VF2 with snazzy gfx. Some have said it's trying to be Tekken-like in various ways, and is trying to appeal to the masses. Only thing here is, Tekken appeals to the masses in the West, who're basically a bunch of lazy slobs that can't appreciate or be bothered to learn a complex game life VF3, and prefer the quick satisfaction of mashing some buttons in Tekken a few times a month and still being able to win a game or two. In Japan, VF was afaik much bigger than Tekken, and I don't believe it was regarded as too difficult.

But to be honest, I don't mind if it is made so that it appeals more to the masses in the west - after all, I live in the west and am dying for more competition in the game I love to play. Perhaps VF4 being flashy and more mainstream is an excuse to finally join the Dark Side with the instant gratification of clueless but successful Eddy Gordo button mashing.

- Jan

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Gnug315 on 2/24/01 00:19 AM.</FONT></P>

 

/me hugs gnug.

thank you for putting what i've been feeling into words so well.

you make me feel safe and secure.

..not warm and gooey, though.

 

?!

nt

 

Looks like its pretty nice. Luv that AoP gooooodness. If we get a real pecker character there I may actually play vf. YAY!

 

a big penis as a character? that WOULD be interesting!

 

i put up some beta/alpha vf3 images at http://world.std.com/~opus/vf3beta/ just for the hell of it, if to point out nothing more than the obvious fact that things can and hopefully will change.

 

When I was in Japan I did actually see an arcade with three
Tekken machines that were being played. Can't say the same
thing about VF3. It's time to forget the fantasy
world where VF3 is the official school curriculum and
Tekken was developed as a teaching aid for the retarded
kids. Such a fantasy version of Japan does not exist.

 

What I worry about is a simple thing.

Non-vfers (those tha never put their time into it)
Can come out and declare the faults of the game and say silly things.

From there, the brainless masses will follow it like the bible.

Too difficult to play?
Stupid.


<font color=red>SummErs' 'mibu's lone wolf'

 

Akira is wearing a gi(doh)
It's suppose to be loose....not those tight ass gi u read at comics or watch at animation or even SF.

And why do u ask if wolf can do a tiger uppercut?
(just wondering...not attacking u.
I told all my friends when he screams, he's asking Yu to give him better pants)

And since when did the VF series have spectators in the background?

U might think it's an area(spectators in background) which can be improved (I guess it's personal preference)

But in all honesty, VFers are in love with the way the game is played. Graphics are a second. I dare say that cause I'm sure hardcore vfers here on this board all go for gameplay, not graphics.

I just hope there's not alot of ppl out there, who will say
'TTT had spectators, so why shouldn't VF have them?'
I've read too much silly comments and hear too much silly opinions regarding the comparison of VF to Tekken.
Incidentally, all those comments are from non-VF players who think TEKKEN represents 3d gaming.

Yes Aoi is hot/images/icons/smile.gif




<font color=red>SummErs' 'mibu's lone wolf'

 

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Some ppl have ventured that if one goes by what we've seen so far, and don't expect any improvements to be made/revealed, VF4 will be a dumbed down version of VF3 - the liniar and perhaps simpler gameplay of VF2 with snazzy gfx

<hr></blockquote>

Y'know, many believe (and this has been debated before) that VF3 was a dumbed down version of VF2. Imo, I prefer the fast and hard - lost half your bar in a flash - type of gameplay in VF2.

Jan - I couldn't agree more with you on the points you made about the promo video being just that. A promo video. It's so difficult to make any assumptions about gameplay, etc. The Pai/Lau sequence, I can guarantee it's all for show. That will never happen. Although this may sound weird, I would never want VF to bcome a fighting simulation - I want it to remain a fighting game.

cheers,

<font color=white> Llanfair the prized <font color=green>cabbage</font color=green></font color=white>

 

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

I would never want VF to bcome a fighting simulation - I want it to remain a fighting game.

<hr></blockquote>


Amen to that! I said it a year ago, and Llany says it again. VF is wonderful as a fighting GAME. It's definitely not a "simulation."

-Chanchai

 

Mother holy of pearl!! heh, Virtua Fighter 4 looks amazing!!! I'm a big fan of Virtua Fighter 3 and 2, never fond of the first Virtua Fighter. Indeed, I see Virtua fighter to have much more gameplay depth than the Tekken series, as Virtua Fighter actually require *Skill* to play.
The characters has improved in detail as we see their faces becoming filled with poly's and textures. Kind of reminds me of shenmue characters only with more poly's. and environmental effects. The stages are truly impressive, as they are massive and full of detail. But gameplay is what we all question here... I guess E3 will tell it's tale. But if you think about it, I read some articles on Dailyradar and it says that virtua fighter 4 is showing off the NAOMI 2's 128 megs of textures... Last I checked Naomi 2 only has 32 megs of graphics memory... but then again, it also had Hardware Texture Compression... Something the Playstation 2 lacked... Hell... 128 megs into 4 megs will be VERY interesting to see, as the playstation 2 has no texture compression at all... and the 16 hardware lights is very impressive... and that FISH!!! I'm impressed now I've seen the dailyradar movies...

 

also on a side note, the motherfucking monk is doing Long Fist!!! the "international competition" form!!! I know, 'cause I learned it in my wushu class!! though the monk has some techniques issues! heh... (the 2 leg landing and the leg speed...

 

Note the nine dots on his head, a very high level monk at the shaolin temple

There are many different forms of Shaolin martial arts.
And Wushu, is techinically, not Shaolin martial arts.
In our chinese history, there are thousands and thousands of different Martial arts form.

And HERE'S A FACT.
Shaolin martial arts are only allowed to be learnt in China. The chinese government considers it as 'national treasure'(highly classified). Meaning, the secrets are not filtered outside the country.

Unless u're from china(making my post MOOT!!!!!)
I find it EXTREMEMLY hard to believe.

It's a game.

Oh , I came back to edit this post.
The intention is to make it CLEAR I AM NOT CRITIZING U!!!!
Do not misunderstand.


<font color=red>SummErs' 'mibu's lone wolf'<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by SummErs on 2/24/01 12:44 PM.</FONT></P>

 

the form he's doing IS indeed Long Fist, "chan chuan." there are many variations of the form, and from the looks of the video, it seems like he's doing the international version! the international version is done for competitions, and I've been to one of those monk tours for martial arts, and yes, they do have landing problems. I know, my teacher is from one of the old beijing shaolin temples.

 

Just some thoughts, responding to the thread in general:

-> Disappointing VF4 graphics

On a technical level, I don't think anyone can really say VF4 disappointed. If you remember Suzuki's comments, he said each iteration would improve the past by a factor of 3. Since VF3 churned at 1 million pps, VF4 was only promised to be 3 million pps. VF4 as is definitely looks a lot more than 3 million pps; I think 9 million pps is more like it.

-> Anti-aliasing issues

They were apparent in the stills but it's hard to believe Sega won't correct the problem in the final product. And no one's said whether aliasing issues exist in the video. Aliasing is such a publicized problem and it seems unlikely it would go unaddressed.

-> 3D movement

I don't mind using the stick for 3D movement a la Soul Calibur, but I do mind if VF4's movement system were to be just like SC or TTT. Jan's comments are wonderful and that is what I'm hoping for as well; it's not so much the method of input (which we can always learn and get used to) but how the system is implemented.

-> Tekken

In Japan, T3/TTT is more popular than VF3/tb in some arcades but on a whole, according to the arcade charts out there, VF3/tb is still more popular. Taken over the whole life of the respective games and it is clear that VF3/tb is the more successful one in Japan (in the arcades at least).

However, I think Hyun brings up a good point--why do people keep on bashing TTT as a simple game? It is not. Anyone who's tried playing TTT on a high level would realize the game is actually very difficult to master. The fact that TTT is accessible to beginners should not be considered a fault; it is a strength and that is why Suzuki is trying to do the same thing with the VF series.

I do prefer VF over Tekken but is it necessary to always include these snide comments--often unjustified--about Tekken? Can we not be confident enough about the strength of VF not to measure its worth by criticizing Tekken?

ice-9

 

One more thing:

-> VF2 like gameplay

I don't mind if the game is "speeded" up to resemble VF2 more than VF3, but I would definitely regret the loss of emphasis on terrain, walls and 3D movement.

ice-9

 

Yo, what happened to the multilevel and sloping battlegrounds? These arenas look too much like DOA2.

 

Why is anyone worried about gameplay when we haven't heard or seen anything yet, other than perhaps the removal of the E button. Jan and Rich are exactly right, especially with Rich's analogy to the information/previews we had about VF3 when it was in the same stage of development.

Lack of slope on the stages? The stages, like they did for the VF3 previews, will change. I can't say for sure that they won't be flat in VF4, merely that making such inferences based on the previews seems imprudent. Linear fighting? Well considering all the moves we saw (other than the new monk's throw and the Pai/Lau "demo") were in VF3, that doesn't strike me as being very indicative of VF4 being more linear than VF3.

Since I'm not above making snide comments about new VF'ers versus old VF'ers, I'll point out that it's the newbies that are extrapolating far more from the pre-release information than it merits.

To me, with regard to gameplay, the only interesting thing worth talking about is the removal of the E button and how that might affect the 3d fighting.

Well, okay, I am a bit curious about the kung fu the new monk guy is doing too.

-Jason