Virtua Fighter 5 Final Release System Info

The final release of VF5 in the arcades is looming ahead, and as such, information are slowly coming in. Starting off is system info from Famitsu and Arcadia. I'll briefly summarize them below.


Throws
There are two kinds of throw executions now. The normal throw where you see the hands coming out like in VF4, and 0 frame throw similar to VF3.

Note that every throw can be executed in both ways, the determining factor is based on the situation in which the throw is executed, and not the command.

- Normal Throw -
The speed has slowed down to about heavy weight speed (~13 frames). This throw can be clashed by an attack during execution, however, even in large disadvantaged situations, big moves will not clash with throw.

- 0 frame throw -
Throws become 0 frame when at the time of execution, the opponent cannot escape the throw, such as during the recovery of an evaded attack, or a whiffed throw/attack attempt.

- Throw Escape -
In FT, most throws leave the thrower in a disadvantaged situation when escaped. In VF5 however, most throws leave both sides even when escaped. The catch is that most throws now leave the thrower side turned, so it does not mean that it's safe at al.

Side Turned Situation
New to VF5 is the ability to attack and defend in a sideturned situation. Such situation occurs after certain attacks, throws, throw escape, DM or OM. If you are able to gain a sideturned situation, it is advantageous and allows for continued attack.

Most of the time, in a side turned situation, you can attack and defend as normal; however, when a side hit occurs, you can get special staggers or crumples. When you counter hit from the side, you will see a new blue hit effect. Depending on the character, different moves can cause a side crumple, which can be comboed for massive damage.

Conversely, if you are side turned, you must be mindful of the fact that it's more difficult to employ defensive tech in this situation. If you carelessly take an aggressive option in this situation, you can easily be counter hitted and crumpled.

Furthermore, in a side turned situation, certain moves that don't normally float will, and certain non canned strings will be canned. Sideturned situation is an integral part of VF5, so care should be takened to be aware of the sideturned exchange.

Defensive Move
This is the old evade from VF4. You can input + for the evade attack at any time during the evade. You can still buffer throw escapes and cancel with crouch dash. Although any of those techniques still make you vulnerable to full circular attack, throws, and delayed attacks.

Offensive Move
New to VF5 is offensive move, which is done by inputting ++ during defensive move. Offensive move is a sharp angled movement towards the side of the opponent. It is possible to input or to attack out of OM. It's important to know that unlike defensive move, there are no invincible frames throughout the movement. The moment that you input ++ during a successful defensive move, you lose the invincible frames and become vulnerable to attack. This is why when used during large disadvantaged situations, you are still very vulnerable to be hit. As the name implies, this is an offensive move, therefore it should only be used in advantage, or in small disadvantage.

It should be noted that against moves that move the character forward, such as side kicks, OM will create a side turned situation when you successfully evade the attack. OM is also highly dependent on stance and the direction of the opponent's attack, so very good judgement needs to be made when using OM.

A good example of OM use is in an advantageous sideturned situation. If you OM towards the opponent's back side, you can easily dodge the opponent's attack and move to the back of the opponent. Using the option can cause a crumple which can give very big damage.

That's it for now, more info including VF.TV and movelist will come tomorrow.

 

Awesome posting....did they say what were the determining factors in getting a 0 frame throw?

 

He posted it. When the throw is gauranteed it becomes a 0 frame. Thanks for the info Srider. There are many questionmarks right now still. Can't wait to see how detailed the charinfo is - is it just movelist or does it go further?

/KiwE

 

Well, I think the biggest impact regarding 0 frame throw is when both players are standing. Since you won't see the grab animations now, dashing up to the opponent and throw is much more effective. In FT you can kind of react and attack the throw or more advanced players can ETEG, but you won't be able to do that in VF5.

 

No it will be 0 frame if the opponent is standing, bun bun maru specifically commented on this strategy. The grab animation applies mostly to situations where buffered throwing is done, like in between exchanges. I had posted previously on when exactly a 0 frame throw occurs in another thread, and to be clear i think this is how it works.

In the very first frame of the throw, the game checks to see if throw will connect, if it does then 0 frame occurs. After that it goes into clash window, which is the traditional throw animation, then grip window occurs. So dashing in and throwing an opponent in standing will result in 0 frame.

 

Awesome post, thanks Srider!!

There doesn't appear to be any surprises in the VF5 system so far, but for me the OM system sounds a bit unsystematic. One of the things I liked about VF's dodge system (especially compared to Tekken's and SC's) is that it is systematic in the sense that it was easy to know what you can or cannot dodge (linear, half-linear, circular). But the OM is highly context sensitive, depending on the relative advantage/disadvantage, opponent's animation, stance, and whether attacks canned or not canned, etc. This makes OM very hard to use...I hope as we learn more about the game, a more systematic and predictable way of using OM would emerge. I.e. we can distll OM situations to a few rules: "OM will win in X situation, lose in Y situation" etc.

 

Well from what Arcadia has published, it seems to me that there IS a systematic usage to OM, although Arcadia did not spell it out directly, and instead telling the player to discover what works and what doesn't. I believe the fact that they explicitly spelled out all the determining factors that OM involves is a huge clue for the Japanese players to go by as they figure out where to use OM more effectively.

Look at it this way, OM has the potential to take a huge chunk of life for every character with potentially small risk when used in advantage, I don't think it would be fair for it to be something that doesn't take a considerable amount of yomi, knowledge, and execution skill. What is certain is that to play VF5 at a high level will require a tremendous amount of text book knowledge on top of good yomi, much more than VF4.

 

It doesn't know, but it won't make a difference, cause 0 frame throw has already occurred. The game takes a look at the specific situation where the throw occurs, and makes a decision whether or not 0 frame throw occurs. Most of the situation where a normal throw takes place is in a buffered situation.

 

Myke:

yes you can cancel the dodge to forward or backward dash in VF5.

My understanding of the new throw system is:
As for the thorw : 0 frame throw occurs pretty much instantly. So you wont have the 8frame reaction time like in FT. In the "dash and throw" situation: As long as you are standing position and in range, the 0 frame throw will occur.

But bear in mind, there are still "un-throwable" frames in hit/ guard/ stagger situations. in this case the throw will be come the old slower FT throw style (13-14 frames).

I guess this will make the Throw escape harder now? if your opponent blocks your throw counterable move, you will have much lesser time(f) to input throw escape. You will pretty much only have the frezee time to inout TE command, and your hit checking skill have to be tip top.

 

For the 0-frame throw, which does the system see as minimally guaranteed: -8 or -13 on guard?

 

I think there is some thing lost in translation regarding the term guaranteed throw situation.

In vf4 we used it synonymouslywith -8 or above. In regards to 0 frame throw, it means situations where the opponent is considered standing, and not executing an attack or defensive tech. If you think of it that way you can clearly see when 0 frame throw would occur instead of the normal throw.

 

Srider, first you described it as:
[ QUOTE ]
- 0 frame throw -
Throws become 0 frame when at the time of execution, the opponent cannot escape the throw, such as during the recovery of an evaded attack, or a whiffed throw/attack attempt.


[/ QUOTE ]
then it was
[ QUOTE ]

In vf4 we used it synonymouslywith -8 or above. In regards to 0 frame throw, it means situations where the opponent is considered standing, and not executing an attack or defensive tech. If you think of it that way you can clearly see when 0 frame throw would occur instead of the normal throw.

[/ QUOTE ]

the first is a description of when the oppt CAN NOT do anything (but mash TE's presumably), because they are stuck in recovery.

the second describes an oppt who CAN be doing anything, but isn't. So under these rules, if the oppt isn't touching the joystick at all, and hasn't done anything, and you walk up and throw, you'll get 0 frame throw? this seems against the original description, which states 0 frame throw happens when the oppt is basically in recovery from a evaded/whiffed attack (does this mean that after attacks hit Air, in VF5 TE is not possible?).

I'm still confused.

I'd also like to know how many frames of disadvantage are required to cause the 0 frame throw. 13? W/ regards to Nin's point, even though throws were 0 frames in VF3, we still had 10 frames to TE I think, so TE'ing should still have a 10 frame window, even in 0 frame throw cases I think.

Bryan

 

Ok, let me expand it a bit more combining all that's been said in the past.

When I said "when at the time of execution, the opponent cannot escape the throw," it applies exactly as it's said, the key phrase being AT THE TIME OF EXECUTION.

In a situation less than ~13 frames, for example after a blocked mid, for an agressive player to clash a throw attempt, he must buffer the next attack during guard stun for avoid losing any frames and to avoid being consider standing guard. If the thrower wants to throw without losing frame advantage, he must buffer the throw attempt during guard stun so make the fastest possible execution for the throw. In this scenario, the normal grab animation occurs, since at the time of actual execution of the throw, the game knows that the opponent is in a state that's considered throwable.

I think it's also helpful to note, although a bit unrelated, that moves that turn you backwards, or considered ducking state, and airborn moves do not clash with throw. So it's possible to play the traditional reverse nitaku game with such moves.

Let me just state directly what Arcadia had listed as example situations where the normal grab throw occurs.
- During hit or guard stun.
- During crumple by throw or reversal.
- After successful throw escape.
- During successful evade.
I'm sure that this is not an all inclusive list, but it helps to understand what is considered normal throw state.

I think my original description may be misleading, since 0 frame throw is not limited to only recovery situations. I hope it's now cleared up a bit more.

In the case of greater than ~13 (throw speed) disadvantage, this also constitute a 0 frame throw situation, although how much window you have to escape the throw is unknown atm.

 

[ QUOTE ]
In the very first frame of the throw, the game checks to see if throw will connect, if it does then 0 frame occurs.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is one thing about this that confuses me, and please don't take this as arguing over semantics. If the check to determine whether or not a throw is considered a 0 frame throw happens on the 1st frame of the throw attempt/whiff, isn't it a 1 frame throw, not a 0 frame throw? Does Arcadia use this term "0 frame throw," or is this just a convention that you guys have created to differentiate a throw that doesn't take ~13 frames to land?

I think this is an important thing to clear up, because a true 0 frame throw could be performed in a guaranteed throw situation (now -13 i guess) or any circumstance that allows for move buffering, but a 0 frame throw would be impossible to execute from neutral, right?

 

Myke: that's exactly correct. Both A and B statements that you've given exactly match the comments made by a certain player in Japan in one of our conversations. This is why I've said previously in other threads that throw based characters have become a much bigger threat in VF5.

Sixtwo:
At the very first frame of execution, the game checks if the situation is prime for a 0 frame throw, and if the conditions are satisfied, the throw is executed at that very first frame. It's called 0 frame throw because there is no execution frame between the time of button input and the initiation of the throw itself. Finally, YES, a 0 frame throw can occur from neutral.

 

my guess is that when inputting a throw the game checks for opponents inputs

if theres no input detected -> animates into 0 frame throw
if inputs are detected = standard throw?

just a guess