Vs Shun

block his combos then attack. alot of shuns moves leave him vulnerable to counters that avoid low attacks but hit high. Why not pick a huge reward vs low risk move like jeffs knee. should work with adv or disadv. if he evades ur knee delay and knee. float, float, float, and let him eat jeffs half damage+ plus combos--just gotta land 2 to win. the low poke kick should disrupt him effectively too, since shun has trouble punishin low blocked attacks --may want to consult with someone who knows jeff's frame data like twp b4 using the low kick, i based this off 2p works to push shun away from pppk strings.
and if ur having trouble against none other, and masared, well...they're high ranked for a reason.

 

You guys really aren't answering the question that's being asked, which is how to deal with the evasive properties of shun's moves. here's what I know . . .

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif :
"knee him in the face" is fun but misleading. You need +8 in order to beat his 14 frame 2k with your 17 frame 6k. Less than that (+6 for sure, not sure about +7) and, despite the frames, he can duck the knee with 2k. It doesn't take much damage, but you'll also get knocked down instead of having advantage, because you're still in the air; knee has weird jumping properties but they don't save you here.
<rant>as an aside, I don't put much stock in this "huge reward low risk knee" meme. If you have +8 and land MC knee against 2k, it does 89 points of damage. This is great, don't get me wrong, but it's not half life+, because 2k is such a small-damage attack. If knee is blocked, shun gets free kk or chouwan combos, which are not trivial especially if he has drinks. </rant>
some other stuff to consider against 2k. . .
2k+g will beat 2k consistently at small advantage, for 20whatever damage and +4 adv; unsafe if its guarded (pretty unlikely) or evaded, but the real danger is mule kick.
43pp will beat 2k consistently at medium advantage if you don't delay, for 41pts and a knockdown, more if he hits the wall. If you're trying to do 443pp as a delay to cover other options, 2k is fast and has pretty good range so short backdashes don't work all that well despite 43pp's evasive properties. It's unsafe, but because of the heavy delay possibilities on the second hit, its effectively much safer than knee on guard or evade.
66pp will stagger, then float against 2k in situations where knee would work ( can also work at +6 depending on closed stance / distance ), and you can tack on 1k+g for 58 pts; if he hits the wall you can do a lot more. It's totally safe compared to knee, especially if you can check the first hit (fuzzyable), and has heavy delay on second hit, which is still only -8 on guard.
Throws obviously fail against 2k, but its only a recovery hit so you will get your +10 afterwards as far as I know.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/ub.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif:
even if you have +8, shun can still avoid immediate knee with this. again, you're in the air, so you'll be floated even by the p followup (as opposed to p+k), and if he's on top of things he can get a small combo to boot. Delay knee will own it, though.
how do the other moves fare against 7p+k+g p?
2k+g will whiff, neither move hits, not sure about frame situation.
43pp can be evaded, or can hit it depending on delay / backdash. Dunno if this is direction specific, shun player want to chime in? Either way you wont be knocked down unless he did the p+k followup.
66pp is similar to 43pp but less likely to hit b/c of range.
Throws, similar to vs evade, you can throw him out of the movement & before the p comes out if you're close enough. Which brings us to mule kick

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/u.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif:
immediate knee against this, you get bigger mc damage bonus. It's fast enough that if you delay too long looking for 7pkg, you can lose.
2k+g loses to this for a combo.
43pp will beat it as long as you have some advantage and don't delay too long.
66pp will beat it, but you wont get the stagger / float.
Throw attempts always lose, even at +8, for a combo.

so, there's no real simple answer; that being said, I tend to think of 43pp as jeff's universal anti-bullshit move: sabaki / ducking moves / jumping moves / failed evades (if you delay) etc.
It doesn't do a ton of damage, and its unsafe on paper, but in practice its pretty safe especially if your opponent hasn't played adamYUKI a whole lot and learned to immediately counterattack after the first hit /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

we were probably waiting for someone who actually knows what they are talking about to comment. took you a while KoD

 

heh, I struggle against shun like everyone else. Wasn't trying to say that knee was necessarily bad advice, just that normal frame advantage rules don't apply vs shun.

 

Heh exactly, someone said I know Jeffs frame data. I think only frame data I actually
know is his jab is 12 frames. (and that's probably wrong)

 

Thanks for words of advice KoD. Shun's so hard to hit and has too many bullshit moves.

 

thanks for the write up KoD.
46P+K has worked very well for me too. It moves Jeff forward quite a bit and gives some nice damage and oki. i remember posting a sober combo for this launcher in the jeff section. 46P+K,2P,2P+K i thought it was.
I have seen shun go under 2K quite some times so i don't use it that often. 43PP seems better as it has a little bigger range and you can delay the 2nd P quite effectively while the followup of 2K doesn't scare as much.

 

what about for lei who doesnt have a knee attack to speak of

 

actually his /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif is a knee... a terrible one lol.