Wakeup Options

This is probably the worst aspect of my game right now. The only solid wakeup option I use is baiting a wakeup attack and nailing 44K+G into combo (which is always fun).

Other than that I tend to just keep dashing in close until they stand (having been intimidated into not rise kicking via 44K+G) and then try to keep up the pressure.

I feel I'm missing a lot here and was wondering what you guys do.

 

I had trouble with this as well but now after trying a few things and researching a few different playstyles I came across these options for VAN:

DS: Defensive Style, as the name implies relies heavily on how quickly you can download your opponent

- Defensive Elbow (1P) Everyone's favorite sabaki Easy to throw out and catches nearly anything coming at you low. I also like using this against people with long range lows (Pai), and sweeps to cut them off early and use a long range move of my own like a Wheel Kick for example

- Leopard Strike (46P+K) I knew this was a sabaki for mid kicks but it took me a while before I put it together that 5K wake ups could be deflected as well (VF5FS is my first experience with the series), so between Defensive Elbow and this move, you have an answer to pretty much any offensive options your opponent has on wake up if you can read it fast enough

OS: Offensive Style is bit more risky if you want to pressure on wake up, it's more about mind games and intimidation than anything else

- HAWK Strike (9K) Like I said, very risky... If you see that wake up sweep coming at you throw this bad boy out there

- Bunker Buster (9P) Same deal as HAWK Strike only because you can cover a larger distance you can bait a wake up sweep then quickly retreat until you confirm the whiff, then pounce on them!

- Reaper Rolling Toe Kick (Descending_K) Bait the wake up attack then retreat with a back jump and Roll,Roll,ROLL!!! This will result in a stagger which you can quickly follow with Bunker Buster for a tasty combo; or if you want to get fancy you can even do a Russian Hook hit-throw (43P+K_P+G) afterwards. If you get into the habit of using Descending K in Defensive Style you can trick your opponent into blocking low for this move that hits Mid in Offensive style if they're not paying attention

I'm sure there's plenty other stuff but these are the one's I'm currently implementing in my game. Hope to play you online sometime!

 

GREAT info Tanooki!

I'd like to add a couple of things as I also feel that VAN's wake up options aren't so straight forward.

DS: Let's say that you have them trained (or you're anticipating) to not attack on wake up. I've found that a lightly meaty 1K+G (low>Intercept) is a pretty decent option against opponents that are fazed. If you do it with the proper timing it will whiff which is intentional as you are not trying to give them the opportunity to block it and punish. From then you mix it up.

OS: Bunker Buster (9P) whiffs on a TON (all?) characters during their waking sweep if done too early. Basically, you and your opponent will whiff eachother and will be near neutral. This is bad if you don't expect to whiff, you'll be caught off guard. Personally, it feels like I'm at disadvantage on whiff in that situation.

Spear (66K+G) - I'll use this if my opponent is wakeup attack happy and miss judges their spacing. If you find yourself RIGHT outside of a wakeup attack whiff scenario then you can spear them and go for the throw mix up. It's not the best option but it is an option. You have the added bonus of showing them that they can't just throw out moves even if you're outside of striking distance.

 

Vanessa's (OS) 66K+G is a better wakeup option than her DS counterpart just because it has greater reach so if you're aware that you're playing against someone who always uses a rising attack, you can bait them into thinking that they'll hit you by doing a quick backdash and inputting (OS) 66K+G during the recovery frames of their attack.

The timing is fairly tough with rising lows but its still a good option.

 

^ It's worth noting that Vanessa gets no forward travel from the move alone so doing a backdash followed by a quick input of 66K+G may whiff.

 

For her wake-up game I'd start by training the opponent to not do wake-up attacks.

You can do this depending on the distance and positioning of your character and the knocked down opponent.

If you have space, Vanessa has great backdashing and jumping speed, which allows you to make people whiff their wake-up attacks.

For Defensive Stance (DS)

After Knockdown
This move allows you to get out of the range of a wake-up attack and gives you a mix-up opportunity.
You can charge the attack and if they are love to do wake-up attacks, you let it go. If it connects as they are attacking, you get a free combo.

Or you can cancel the , using before she charges in and then you can use , which is a mid-circular to hit after they've whiffed their wake-up move.
(This move has excellent range and also stops side-step attempts if they try)

If they don't use wake-up attacks.
You've got the option to pressure by dashing in for a throw attempt if they are scared of your wake-up punishers.

Or you can attack 1st to gain advantage. By doing moves such as:

- (Has good range and will hit people rolling back or backdashing after wake-up)
- (Staggers crouching, also gives you a mix-up chance)
- (Stops evade and staggers crouching, 2nd hit knocks down on CH)
- (Stops evade and staggers crouching, 2nd hit can chain into hit throw on CH)
- (Gives +3 on Block +7 on Hit)
- (Great move if they try to attack high after rolling back, gives combo)

For Offensive Stance (OS)

You can pressure with like in DS.
Hit you get a combo, or you can cancel for mix-up game.

Mixups after cancel from OS include:

- (Takedown tackle, give you throw mixup)
- (Good range, stops backdashing, even better near wall)
- (Special High, +2 on Guard, combos on hit, gives combo on if opponent uses CH or just CH)
- Intruder Step Mix-up
- or (1st part stop crouching and can give combo on CH, [2nd part], for people who attack low after the 1st on Block or [2nd part], for side-steppers)
- (Gives +4 on Guard +9 on Hit and leaves opponent side-turned, beware or usage since it's a high)
- Jump (On hit this move staggers and can lead to combo, also worth noting, you can use this move as an alternative to the cancel if opponent does wake-up attacks)

 

Nice breakdown,

But Im still training with her DS that I'm havent used her OS much, but in time I will as I feel she has more damage potential in OS.

 

Her highest damage combos all seem to be from OS, yes. DS is just where she keeps her bag of tricks.

I always feel sad without 1P...

 

I try to bait the wake-up on OS, and most of the time I'll be just a smidge out of range or back dash and use 4P+K. It's quick and gets a second knock down.

 

On wake-up for vanessa in OS if she gets a knock down on a move like 6PPK and they don't tech you can follow it up with 2KPK or 2KPP depending on character weight and stance. If they do tech you can still do it except you would go into intruder stance and go for her catch throw or whatever button that would beat out what they press.

 

+ stops working at a certain point and trying to do the late cancel against players who knows Vanessa can be very dangerous, but as long as it works it's christmas.

Otherwise you're better off just staying within range and look to space out and whiff punish eventual rising attacks.

If you want to crush rising attacks in DS then is pretty good for it and relatively easy to time.

Having too much of an infatuation with jumping and attacks that jump is just detrimental to your gameplay in the long run.

 

Nice info guys. Indeed, OS has an easy time beating rising low kicks with jump back > and punishing whiffed rising mid kicks with

DS on the other hand...

@ZeroEx, AFAIK rising low kick will disrupt after elbow rush. Does avoid rising kicks after vanessa's other throws?

Btw, some minor nitpicks about her DS options:
Vane's backdashing and jumping speed is identical to everyone elses, isn't it?
DS doesn't knock down on CH.
DS has poor range (as chinsilver already mentioned). Did you mean ? If not, can you give a setup example?
DS CH yields +19, which theoretically means combos! Can anyone confirm this? Confirmed, this actually works and it's amazing
DS sometimes goes under rising mid kicks after a backdash. You won't get the foot crumple on recovery CH though but, still, +2 and crouching is not a bad place for DS vanessa to be (WS should beat everything except vane/sarah 10f jab and midpunch sabaki/reversal).
Other than that, totally agree with your OS breakdown

Jeneric, shouldn't DS be as easy to time as in order to crush rising attacks? (Disclaimer: due to muscle memory i still do myself but) at least in theory, the two moves have the same active frames (4) and practically identical execution speeds (21 vs 22).

 

Man there is some good info in here, i'll be testing some of this stuff out.

 

When I get the chance to play the game next week, I'll make a detailed breakdown on what situations works against.