Wanted All Lei Fei Players

Discussion in 'Lei' started by masterpo, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    lastmonk
    We're looking at starting a team of Lei Fei players that for now we will call Team-Shaolin

    Lei Fei players of any level would be welcome as long as you pledge only to play Lei Fei in public tournaments, online rooms, and public gatherings. In other words we're looking for players who are pretty much dedicated to and have a passion for learning Lei Fei.

    Team-Shaolin would exist largely on PSN and XBL VF5FS using the new Room concept of VF5FS. We would dedicate rooms for training among ourselves, rooms for ranking among ourselves, and dedicated Shaolin rooms just for challenging other teams.

    Team Shaolin would have several major goals:

    1) To greatly improve our skills in Hai Shiki,Bokutai, douritsu shiki, koko shiki, nehan shiki ura nehan shiki, suirakan shiki etc. as a team and as individuals

    2) To permanently once and for all vanquish the myth that
    Lei Fei is a lower tier Character.

    3) To teach respect to any other VF online teams that would
    doubt the tenacity and veracity of the Shaolin way

    4) To eventually disseminate to other sworn Lei Fei players
    that 'secret knowledge' that only master Lei Fei players
    share.

    5) To produce and be a home for some of the best at least
    most dedicated
    Lei Fei players on the planet.

    Because we have XBL and PSN versions of VF5FS we would have a Team-Shaolin XBL and a Team-Shaolin PSN. We would ask that Lei Fei players with the most senority (those who now swear to Lei Fei) and have played VF the longest, to volunteer as team leaders either on the PSN or XBL side. Team leaders do not necessarily have to be the best Lei Fei fighters. We're looking for maturity, cool heads, experience and VF wisdom.

    Our dojo masters will be those who actually have the most skills with Lei Fei. Once the teams are started, we would have ranking matches among ourselves to identify the Sifus, disciples, students, etc. If you play on both XBL and PSN you can be on both teams (but your capacity might be different)

    Although Team-Shaolin is primarily an online team (because that's where we would interact most of the time) we would like team members to represent in offline tourneys, events, etc.
    If you're from Team-Shaolin we want it known that you're from Team-Shaolin

    The only basic rules for acceptance and continuance in Team-Shaolin are:

    1) You must be absolutely dedicated to Lei Fei when fighting matches in any public forum, tournament, online public room, or event. If you are a multiple character player, Team-Shaolin is not for you. If as a member of Team-Shaolin you are caught representing some other character, you will be banished, dispatched, vanquished (in other words kicked).

    2) This is a hard rule, but necessary one. We ask that you only spar with other Team-Shaolin members in private, or in online rooms that are exclusive to Team-Shaolin members. We rank among ourselves in closed Lei-Fei only tournaments, but we never publicly challenge each other in any type of public event. As a member of Team-Shaolin, if you are caught publically (knowingly) fighting another member of Team-Shaolin, you will both be kicked.

    Whatever team leaders and dojo masters we end up with may come up with additional rules but these 2 rules are immutable for Team-Shaolin.

    Obviously we will need several team leaders on the Team-Shaolin-PSN and Team-Shaolin-XBL. There will be no limit to the number of Masters both teams can have. Internal tournaments will divide all members of Team-Shaolin into one of the three folling groups:

    Masters (Sifu)
    Disciple
    Student

    Basically representing Advanced players, Intermediate players, and Beginning Players. Will have open admissions until August 30, 2012. Please respond before then if you are interested in being a team leader or member in either for Team-Shaolin-PSN or Team-Shaolin-XBL

    If you would like to join Team-Shaolin after August 30,2012 you must first defeat 3 Team-Shaolin members of the student rank.

    We need someone on the XBL to initially take names and act as one of the team leaders. Since I'm only on PSN I can't help with the XBL recruits, But my psn tag is lastmonk and I will be one of the team leaders for Team-Shaolin-PSN so if you're interested and you're on the PSN friend me, or send me a PSN mail.
     
  2. BlackDragon37

    BlackDragon37 Well-Known Member

    Since when has Lei-Fei been a lower tier character?
     
  3. phanatik

    phanatik Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    I phanatik I
    I was totally interested until I read your rules. I practice real chinese kung fu. I love the history of the shaolin temple and kung fu in general. I am a multi-character player (Lei-Fei is my main), but only the players that do chinese kung fu.
    If you don't mind, please explain your logic with your rules.
     
  4. wingchun_warrior

    wingchun_warrior Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    1 name u for all u LEI-FEI NUFF SAID BRING IT ...

    COUNT ME IN I LOVE THIS IDEA YES IM EXCITED TO LEARN MY LEI-FEI WERE DO I SIGN
     
  5. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    lastmonk
    I had not thought about the other characters that also hold a legitimate claim to kung fu. You do have a good point.



    So are you suggesting that we expand Team-Shaolin to include
    Pai and Lau? Or would you add Shun as well? not necessarily a bad idea, but we would have to change focus. I would like to hear your argument.

    We're really trying to focus on Lei Fei. His stances and techniques, I think are some of the most misunderstood in the game (IMO). The idea of a an online team of Lei Fei stylists is very appealing.

    Also, I've been playing the game for a few years now, I have found it extremely difficult to achieve total mastery of any version of Lei Fei. As soon as I've almost mastered one, a new version i.e. VF5FS comes out. We are not looking to put together a team with mediocre Lei Fei players, or casual Lei Fei players. Although we're excepting beginners we want to develop Lei Fei players that are without equal. We want the very mention of the name 'Team-Shaolin' to strike fear in the hearts of our enemies [​IMG] Phanatik, are you really that good with Lei Fei? Have you mastered all of his arts? You indicated in your post that you practice real chinese kung fu, if that is true, let me remind you of something:

    In the Shaolin temple, there are three kinds of men. Students, disciples, and masters. Development of the mind can be achieved only when the body has been disciplined. To accomplish this the ancients have taught us to imitate God’s creatures. This is Master Shao. Master of the White Crane system. From the crane we learn grace and self control. The snake teaches us suppleness and rhythmic endurance. The praying mantis teaches us speed and patience. And from the tiger we learn tenacity and power. And from the dragon, we learn to ride the wind. It may take half a lifetime to master one system.[/size]

    Have you mastered:

    Koko Shiki
    Dokuritsu Shiki
    Ura Ko Ko Shiki
    Nehan Shiki
    Hai Shiki
    Sui Ra Kan Shiki
    Bokutai
    Ura Nehan Shiki

    Lei Fei's wall attacks?

    If you really are a student of Kung Fu(gongfu) you know one of the primary objectives is to practice everyting to perfection and with purity. I personally have not found it possible to reach perfection with more than one character (but then I'm mediocre myself).

    We want the Lei Fei exclusivity when it comes to public tournaments, competitions, ranking modes online, offline competitions. What you do in private rooms,or non public events is not a concern.

    I do understand that other characters have a kungfu claim.

    But to truly achieve mastery and perfection, I think we have to pick one character and achieve total kung fu with that character. I would like to hear your argument though because we do need sparring partners.

    Thanx for the interest.
     
  6. phanatik

    phanatik Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    I phanatik I
    Masterpro, I like your idea of having a Team Shaolin. As a matter of fact, Lei-Fei players play him because they love the character and what it symbolizes.

    I think the following part of your first rule is too much: "You must be absolutely dedicated to Lei Fei when fighting matches in any public forum, tournament, online public room, or event." Tourneys I can see. In public forums and in online public rooms...not so much. And in rule number two...we need to spar other people to understand our opponents. I think Team Shaolin should be well organized, in that it should have training rooms...possibly scheduled, to help develop Lei-Fies, but we need to play other characters. For example, my Sifu had to fight masters from all other schools to graduate (black sash). We should also fight other styles.

    I admire your zeal and passion for Lei. Too bad you are on PSN and I'm on XBL; I'd love to spar you, as I hold the mindset that I can always improve...and I can:)

    Do what you will. It's a great idea either way.
     
  7. wingchun_warrior

    wingchun_warrior Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    Yes Lei-fei only there's to much to learn so id rather stick to the first rule lei fei only
     
  8. phanatik

    phanatik Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    I phanatik I
    Wing, I understand that one should be dedicated, but to be removed from the team because one plays another character??? That's harsh...
     
  9. SwordSainte

    SwordSainte Member

    I am seriously considering joining this group as soon as I get a dedicated Ethernet cable for my PS3 (right now it's on wireless, which probably makes me useless to you guys), since I really could use the training. And I like the level of passion I see here for this character. However, I have to agree with phanatik here: we need to be able to train against other characters in order to be effective with our own chosen main.

    As a Chinese martial artist myself, I love using Lei. But I also realize that he has certain weaknesses that other characters don't have. He's not as fast as some of the other characters and doesn't have access to many of the simple button input attack strings that they tend to have. he doesn't have a whole lot of "sure fire" moves that others tend to as well. He also isn't as strong as some of the other ones, like Wolf, Jeffry, and Taki. Lei's strengths lie in his strong sabakis and constant mix of attacks. So if we're just training against other Leis, that's what we're training ourselves to deal with. that means we'll most likely be less than prepared when we're up against a Jacky who's going to come swinging with his [P]+[K] and [P] string barrages, or a Pai raining blows from all angles. We need to hone our own moves and train against each other yes, but we need to understand the other characters as well, at least from a perspective on how to beat them.

    I'm not against using Lei as a main wherever we go; that's what I plan on doing. But if you want this team to be successful, then that means when you get together in online rooms to train, you need to spar against other characters besides other Lei's. You simply won't be able to come up with effective strategies against them if you don't; there's no two ways about it.
     
    Pai~Chun likes this.
  10. phanatik

    phanatik Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    I phanatik I
    Well said SwordSainte. I agree.
     
  11. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    lastmonk
    You're correct. We should re-word the rule to deal with the common sense of having to spar with other styles if for no other reason than to understand your opponent. If we can still obtain the original objectives the rules can be relaxed, or rewored.

    Phanatik, keep in mind we do want to start a Team-Shaolin-XBL as well as Team-Shaolin-PSN. We need ppl on both consoles to represent. Perhaps you could be one of the team leaders on the XBL side, and help get the team started.

    As far as sparring with me, there's nothing special to see, I'm more bark than bite. Although I have absolutely mastered the art of losing and I know how to deal with defeat probably better than any player out there. My unique talent is that I can teach a player how to face and embrace defeat. Anyone can cope with winning. But losing a round, a match,a tournament can break a fighter's confidence and if they don't know how to lose properly, they'll find themselves gun shy, or nervous in certain situations. Because I have truly mastered losing, then
    nervousness, anxiety, fear, trepidation, are never obstacles in my game. When you've truly mastered defeat your learn to look for the weakness in the other guy's game instead of worrying about the weakness in your own.

    I've seen many players give up before the round is over, out of
    fear, nervousness, and trepidation. Maybe their opponent has 3/4 life bar and they only have 1/8 life bar, you can just see
    their game diminish. They lose all confidence. They become timid, unsure, almost cowardly. They have not learned the lesson that: "Its not over until its over". I've come back in many matches because I truly understand defeat, and the fact that I have 1/8 life bar, and my opponent might have 3/4 life bar does not determine who wins or my defeat. Its a hard lesson. Really, a Shaolin type lesson. There is no dishonor in defeat, but only in how defeat is handled.

    Yeah, phanatik, about the only thing I can teach you to do is to look loss right in the eyes, recognize it , understand it, and realize when its for real. Many times we lose when we should not have. We gave the opponent more credit than what was deserved. Maybe he/she had a few awesome combos that they were able to get off (and then we assume they're better than we are) when in reality all they have are those two awesome combos and on the other hand we might be a more well rounded player.

    So many players have a simple test, they believe if they could get a certain move off or sequence off on you, that they will prevail. They assume if you fail to throw escape, when they think you should have, or if you don't cancel their little attack cliche strings, they feel they have you. They will then play with more bravado,more flair, more confidence, They can almost taste their victory. I can teach you that in many of those cases your seeminly inevitable defeat is not real. The cocky player has not only decieved himself into believing he has already won the match but he has also decieved you, into thinking that he has already won the match. It requires steel to realize otherwise.

    The two rules, are very forward looking. They make the most sense when Team-Shaolin is established and well known. At the moment they seem over baring so we can adapt them.

    Although we would have Team-Shaolin-PSN and Team-Shaolin-XBL we could share the training regimen, calendars, and schedules,etc.e.g. if this week, we are focusing on Kyo Shiki,Sabaki, and wall attacks, there is no reason why teams on both consoles shouldn't be able to work on the same things at the same times. If we're doing internal ranking, we should be able to do it at the same times on both consoles.

    Some members will have both consoles and will be able to play liason between the XBL and PSN. And members that are involved in offline competitons, and tourneys will represent Team-Shaolin independant of any partiular console.

    Maybe you can contact some of the XBL Lei Fei's and see what they think about starting a team.....
     
  12. wingchun_warrior

    wingchun_warrior Well-Known Member Bronze Supporter

    ya i feel whatever no matter what ill always play with lei-fei when i master him then ill play other guys
     
  13. phanatik

    phanatik Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    I phanatik I
    Sounds like a plan. I'll throw some bait out and see who bites.

    Thanks!
     
  14. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    lastmonk
    SwordSainte, it is agreed that we need some provision for using other characters when training, and sparring. But keep in mind we can invite others to our training camp to provide that. Here are the reasons why you will never be able to use the other fighters yourself to get better at Lei Fei

    1) You will never be good enough at the other fighters if Lei Fei is your main, then by definition you are better with him than any other fighter. So if you're challenging one of our Lei Fei's during training is will be less than your best.

    2) We want to spar against master players who use the other fighters. We want to learn how to prevail against a master Jeffrey player, or a Master Goh player, or Master Jean Player.
    You can never be master of all the characters and sparring against inferior versions doesn't help us much.

    3)I'm kind of confused with both WordSainte and phanatik. If both of you guys are really training in Kung Fu, then I know that you would not dare go to another master just because you think your current master has some kind of weakness. Boxers might (I mean might) switch trainers like that, but kung fu doesn't work that way.There is a great deal of loyalty in the Shaolin way, a great deal. One does not change schools just to get some small advantage.


    SwordSainte, in terms of Lei Fei's weaknesses or strengths. Let me just say, that when you first start up VF5FS and your at the character select screen. Any character can beat any other character. Jean is not better than Shun, Shun is not better than Pai, Pai is not less than Jacky etc. Its the players behind the characters that introduce the strengths and weaknesses into the game.

    Anything that you imagine to be some character's advantage can be nullified by another good player. Anything that you imagine to be some charater's disadvantage can be turned into an advantage by another good player.

    The only strengths that Lei Fei has are the ones you bring when you select him. The only weaknesses Lei Fei has are the one you bring when you select him.

    Don't use simplistic character overviews as a rationalization for why you need to use more than one character.

    I only use Lei Fei and I have beat fighters using every other character in the game. So as far as I concerned Lei-Fei is capable of prevailing in any situation. But to be fair, the same is true about any other character in the game. If you push for mastery in you character you can prevail against a good fighter using any character.

    So as far as sparring with other characters, I would rather spar against someone who has mastered the other character, than
    spar with someone on my own team who only uses the other character casually.

    This is a long post but important.

    All of the Characters in VF have incredible potential at advanced levels. It will take you a great deal of time to really truly get good with even one character. Unless you're an old man, very old man. Here's a fact, the more characters you use, the less proficient you are at each of them. If you've played VF long enough you might master 2 characters ( I say might) When I see someone playing with 3,4,5 characters I know right away that at best they are mediocre with all of them.

    We will accept beginners, but we're looking for players that want to master Lei Fei. Unless you have no job, are not in school,have no wife/girlfriend, husband/boyfriend and have nothing to do but play VF all day, it is extremely difficult to
    master more than one character. The more time you put into a second or third character, the more time you take away from mastering Lei Fei, its just that simple.


    Now we could argue, that we want Team-Shaolin to represent Kung Fu in general and we would allow Pai players, Lau players, Lei Fei players, and possibly Shun di players, but even in that situation, we would want the Pai players to be exlusively Pai players, and the Lau players to be exlusively Lau Players. And as a group we would represent Online Kung Fu.

    But, the idea that you are on Team Shaolin and you represent Lei Fei in one online tournament, and then in other public scenarios you represent Jeffrey, is a no no. That would be like. Would be like a soldier fighting on one side today, and then another side tomorrow, and a third side the next day.

    SwordSainte and phanatic it might be because you're both new and haven't truly faced advanced players yet, so you don't know, how little you really know about the game, I dunno.

    But to truly master Lei Fei, probably takes more time than you're willin to put in. If you add to Lei Fei, one or two other character to try to master, you're barkin up the wrong tree.
     
  15. phanatik

    phanatik Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    I phanatik I
    I've played LA_Akria, Bristal, Tricky, Stl Tm, Saint Chanchai, and some other current top 5 players (on the leaderboards). Most of them are part of VFDC.

    Look, I am down to join. I have over 400 games on XBL and all but two were played using Lei. If we're in agreement, I will start recruiting for XBL players. I have played some good Leis...

    I like the idea of having a Team Shaolin with just Leis. We can then look for other teams to play against and spar; issue solved. However, VF is a game. Real kung fu training is very hard work. I have to hold a horse stance for an hour...besides all the other stances (and I practice northern style)! VF is not as dynamic,not even close; but I appreciate the correlation you are trying to communicate.

    I am busy with a wife, kinds, college, a full time job, and my kung fu studies! I might not be have the greatest potential due to time constraints, but I want to be part of the team.

    Let me know what you all want to do moving forward.

    Amituofo!
     
  16. SwordSainte

    SwordSainte Member

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3)I'm kind of confused with both WordSainte and phanatik. If both of you guys are really training in Kung Fu, then I know that you would not dare go to another master just because you think your current master has some kind of weakness. Boxers might (I mean might) switch trainers like that, but kung fu doesn't work that way.There is a great deal of loyalty in the Shaolin way, a great deal. One does not change schools just to get some small advantage.</div></div>

    Actually I'm pretty confused with this statement. You see, Lei-Fei is not my master, not does he represent some special style that I'm trying to master and need to swear loyalty to. He's simply a character in a video game, a particular digital representation with a particular moveset that has certain functions and characteristics that the other characters don't have. No more, no less. This is a video game; this is NOT real martial arts, I know we can make some obvious (and not so obvious) similarities and analogies between the two, but I think you're taking it a bit too far. They are NOT the same.

    However, if you want to go with this line of reasoning, I'll play along for a bit, since it can help me to prove my point.

    Martial arts styles (and in particular Chinese ones) tend to have a central combat theory in mind, a set of techniques and specialties that define what that style is. Cha Quan for example specializes in offset timing and engaging at different ranges. Xingyiquan specializes in overwhelming the foe in straightforward bursts, going through the opponent, and is known for offering a plethora of information for the student in a short period of time. Wing Chun is know for its abilities at short range, with its effective skills in trapping hands and attacking with rapid punches. Notice however, when you specialize in something, you're leaving out something else, which means you're not necessarily training in it. But when you leave the training hall and bump into some other fighter and have to defend yourself, you're most likely going to be encountering something NOT taught at your school. Your martial arts will fail you unless you know how to deal with it... just like your training with Lei will fail you if you don't know how to deal with, say, Jeffy's Threatening Stance variations.

    Now, I'll point out that when it comes to real martial arts, this sort of thing isn't that big a problem, at least if the style one is studying is complete. If it takes into account all the various ways one can aim and throw a punch or kick (it's not as varied as you may think), the many ranges of attack, various angles, striking and grappling techniques, etc, then even if it specializes in any set of skills, it will focus using those skills against all the others. But it means that this style will at least have basic knowledge of those other skills. If it doesn't, this style won't survive outside the training hall. And there has been many a reputation destroyed for this very reason. Taking this back to Virtua Fighter, this is what phanatik and I are trying to tell you: you need to understand the basic methods the other characters will use against you if you are going to beat them with Lei. You don't need to master the other characters in order to get this experience, any more than you need to master other styles in order to master your own chosen one.

    Now, here's where this comparison between Virtua fighter and real martial arts begins to fall apart, at least in regards to the argument you are presenting here. Contrary to what Kung Fu movies, books, and badly educated martial arts teachers will tell you, there was a great deal of cross training and knowledge exchange, at least among independent experts, when it came to Chinese Martial arts. In fact, many of the styles that are famous today got their start by masters of one style sharing ideas with another and coming up with something new. That Cha Quan I mentioned? It was developed by Muslims who migrated to China years ago, mixing the fighting arts at the time with their own understandings of combat. Their own methods ended up mixing into so many other styles it's crazy; just for your own research, find out how many styles have Tan Tui as one of their beginning forms. The Tan Tui form comes from Cha Quan. How about Bajiquan (considering the game we;re playing, I know you know that one... right?)? Practitioners of that style have been known to mix and train in the techniques of Piguazhang, and vice-versa... so much so that there's now a famous statement in Chinese martial arts that alludes to this mixing. Considering Baji is known for explosive power, and Pigua is known for it's fast, slamming arm motions, this make sense: the two compliment each other well. Xingyiquan and Baguazhang practitioners are also well known for cross training in each other's styles for for widening their understanding of combat: Xingyi moves in straight lines, and bagua moves in circles. Actual Bagua (the style I currently study) is a great example of a style that developed from others; so much of its own compendium of techniques and combat theory came after thousands of years of martial arts development, all given from several different styles. And don't even get me started on Shaolin (hey, our character's martial art, how about that?); how many styles are trained in that temple again?? And how many actually ORIGINATED with that temple? (hint: you'd be very, very shocked with the answer.)

    My point is thus: having an understanding of a wide range of combat techniques and theories, as well as conversing with other fighters with different specialties of their own HELPS martial artists not HURTS martial artists. In fact, martial arts wouldn't have advanced without this mixing. Trying to suggest the opposite, and then linking it to digital characters in a video game who mimic real martial arts (with varying degrees of authenticity), in order to keep people from using other characters is ridiculous, and it will actually keep people from being effective with the character.

    Now, I'm not saying that we need to have people mastering other characters in your Lei Fei group... otherwise what's the point of calling it a Lei Fei group? What I AM saying is that we have to have some familiarity with those characters in order to know how to deal with them. Sparring with AI animated characters can only take you so far; you need to have an idea of how a human will use those characters against you, and you need some understanding of the main weapons they like to use, while mastering your own tools.

    Now I know you said you'd rather spar against say, a masterfully played Jacky instead of a beginner level Jacky, and I can see why. But you know what? If you're not an expert player yourself, you'll actually pick up little from dealing with them if it's not set up as an educational match. They're just going to be trying to wind the match, and will be using the character in ways that you as a lower level player won't be able to comprehend at the moment, since you're still trying to master lower level stuff. This is why for the most part, in real martial arts, people spar against people AT OR NEAR THEIR LEVEL. The same goes for video game playing; that's why ranking mode is set up the way it is. Besides, a lower level Pai player can still give you leagues more information on how to beat Pai in general than playing against other Lei's ever could. And against an expert Pai? Unless they are specifically trying to train you to beat their moves they are going to be busy pounding you into the ground in ways you won't be able to understand, with you walking away going, "I don't know how to stop that!" And I know that's happened to you before; it's happened to all of us. And there's a reason for that: they've gone beyond just using the character to beat you. They're instead taking advantage of your lack of experience.

    You do NOT have to master other characters just to have a basic understanding of their specialties and tools. And there's nothing wrong with admitting that the character you use has certain weaknesses compared to theirs. If you're thinking I'm wrong for saying so, fine. Go ahead and try to out-speed Pai. Meanwhile, I'll be busy trying to use the tools Lei has in a way that negates her speed... something I'd have a better chance of doing when I have a better understanding of her own weapons. And I don't need to master her to know that Lei's anti-punch moves can be helpful against her, and that blocking her [P][P][P][2][K] string leaves her open to [9][K]+[G] combos.

    Please understand that I'm not writing this to put you down, or trying to say that your idea sucks; I think your group is a fantastic idea, and I really want to see Lei dominate this game in the West just as well as, if not better than, the other characters. I just think that in keeping members from at least understanding the basics of other characters you're harming your team more than helping them. Just my opinion, but hey, maybe I'm wrong.

    (by the way, if you want to have a better understanding of real martial arts history, I have two books to recommend to you: Chinese Martial Arts Training Manuals: A Historical Survey by Brian Kennedy and Elizabeth Guo, and The Spring and Autumn of Chinese Martial Arts - 5000 Years by Kang Ge Wu. Both are excellent sources of authentic Chinese martial arts information, though some of it may surprise you, especially if what you know of them is just based on legend... which is what most people happen to think is real knowledge, unfortunately.)
     
  17. vmoney48

    vmoney48 Member

    I am down to join the group. I've been playing Lei since VF4 and want to get some training in with other players.
     
  18. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    lastmonk
    @vmoney send me a friend request on PSN my tag is lastmonk

    SwordSainte, I agree with the vast majority of what you're saying. I think maybe my post was to long for you to read. The basic point was

    Yes we should understand the styles of other fighters!
    No we should not use ourselves to get that understanding!

    Here's the logic:
    Lei Fei is your main right? right! we agree!

    Why not learn from master's of the other characters?

    For example: if MykeVFDC is a kage expert and you want to be able deal with Kage fighters, why not ask MykeVFDC to spar with you?

    If me an you are in a practice room, and we both main Lei Fei,
    Then you decide to use Kage to spar with me, You are not a Kage expert, and you never will be, because Lei Fei is your main. You might be mediocre with Kage, so if I spar with you, I'm only practicing against a mediocre Kage. That's not the goal my friend. If you want a dominant Lei Fei, you have to spar against the best Kage's out there, not against your fellow dojo members, who will at best be mediocre usin g Kage.

    Here's the Logic:


    1) You will be the best with your main character

    2) You will be less than your best with any other character

    3) The VF characters are simply too deep for you to master more
    than 2 of them over the life time of the version of VF you
    are playing at the moment.

    4) Every version of VF offers enough changes to require you to
    go back into the dojo with your main.

    So., If our goal is to produce the best Lei Fei fighters, then we have to spar against the best Pai,Jeffrey,Goh,Jean, Brad,Kage, etc. fighters. Since we cannot master them all, then the theory is to focus on one, and invite other true, Pai, or true Goh players to spar with you. Yes you can casually spar with other members of Team-Shaolin as Goh, or Lau. But by definition you will not have mastered Goh, or Lau so your team members will not be sparring against the best. We want to sparr against the best fighters we can. WordSainte Do you understand?

    Now there is another argument I thought you and phanatik were trying to make. Here's the other argument and it does have merit. Why not expand Team-Shaolin to include all the Kung-fu practitioners in the game, which would include:

    Lei-fei
    Lau
    Pai
    Shun di
    Akira (possibly)

    So instead of having Team-Shaolin only represent one style of Kungfu it would represent all the styles. That is the argument that I though you and Phantik were originally trying to make. That argument has merit. But even in that case, we would want Pai stylists to be Pai stylists, Lau Stylists to be Lau stylist. We would not try to get all members of the team to master 4 or 5 characters! The fact of the matter is, the more character you use, the less proficient you are at all of them. If you like, I'll prove it to you.

    I can understand you want to casually mess around with multiple characters, try them out in different scenarios, but if you and phantik want to be world class fighters, then you have to stick with one (unless you two cats are extreeemly exceptional)

    I can't convince you of this, you will have to see it for yourself. Both of you are for the most part beginners, you will understand what I'm talking about after you've been brutalized, humiliated, minimized, and marginalized by some of the world class players in VF. At that point you will really see how little you know, and you will realize, that in order to truly up your game, your going to have to pick one character, buckle down, and do the work. I wish you and phantik much luck. Keep in mind you will always be welcome in Team-Shaolin once your point of view has evolved. But at that time you will have to beat three of our student ranked members (which might not be as easy as you think)

    Other Lei Fei players that are willing to do Lei-Fei exclusively, and are interested in joining Team-Shaolin
    (for the PSN version) just send me a friend request:
    my psn is lastmonk. For my Xbl brothers and sisters, PM me here on VFDC and as soon as we have a team leader for the XBL then I will forward your names.
     
  19. Seidon

    Seidon Well-Known Member Content Mgr El Blaze

    There's an elephant in here and his name is delusion.
     
  20. vmoney48

    vmoney48 Member

    @masterpo ok i can send you FR on PSN but just to let you know that i will be playing more on XBL.
     

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