We all have to start some where I guess...

Well, I did it. I damn did it.

I've got a history with trying to learn this game here.

See, I started maybe around 2011/2012...

Everyone who starts out on this game is a total noob right? I didn't think it'd be that bad with hours of experience with one game and like 2000 hours + experience with SFIV. But, no. Me and Lau saw tough times. Like, at most a 35% win rate. Then I stopped for 6 months and tried to pick up Wolf. I must have lost 40 matches before I finally won 1. Never again.

Now about part of Winter Break Last year and Summer this year, I tried to pick up Brad the bad guy Burns and Goh Hinogami. Now, I've done barely ANY video or other supplementary material at this point, but I think I was doing good at first. I've at least found out how to annihilate cr P mashers with certain setups all by myself (Goh more than anything because f K is just the best thing ever on CH). But I feel like I'm getting worse. I lose to almost everyone all the time. Like that one Lau (Tuchma- whatever, your name is stupid) or some lazy 50/50 setup noob Kagoocjunk, or I just fight KyleVF and get annihilated and have another existential crisis. My data even got deleted and I think I'm like 70 out of almost 240 matches total now.

I need help. I can't get gud a VF5:FS.

 

Lau faces some unique challenges as he lacks a fast mid launcher, 46P is great for punishing but suffers from being a high attack.

4P+K is the key to unlocking Lau's potential - it's slow but if you can get your opponent to block it you get a free kokei mixup with 4K+P,P,kokei. this puts you at frame advantage with access to a fast mid launcher, a circular and a guard break.

Lau's P,K is trash except for +12 punishing. it's nearly throw punishable on guard and your only option is to ETE or cancel into kokei which puts you at -5 and unable to guard. On punish it's fine, gives you kokei mixup. Sorta like Kage's on punish I guess.

Lau's 6P is terrific. Punish sweeps with it and you've got kokei.

his 3P has super good range. hit confirm 3P,P,K, leaves you at -3 after the last hit so just fuzzy after.

3K is a monster. Lau gets huge damage off of catching backdash with it. like other 3K, it's +8 on crouching guard.

Lau has many circulars. K+G puts you into kokei, 4K+G sideturnes your opponent, 6K+G is fast and pushes back really far, but is launch punishable. 2K+G sweeps.

hit me up for games.

psn: oneida_vf
xbl: oneida1

 

Well, I've kinda put Lau on the shelf. I'm not really sure I like him anymore.

I feel like most of the problem I'm having besides some frame knowledge and what's punishable on each character is decent continued offense and what to do on the opponents wake up. Like, I've seen Kage do a front flip out of kick range for pressure and to set up strings and I've seen Vanessa do... I think jump back into some somersault kick that's pretty nasty if you do anything other that block when you wakeup.

All I've ever done with Brad is PKG on some people, but that doesn't make up for my weak offense and with Goh all he kinda has that I've found for wakeup is 46K and that's almost impossible to time with online lag.

As for offense, it seems like I'm never doing stuff that gives me continued advantage. Best I have is with Goh and it goes like this. P K4 2P CH 2PG throw or P+K and either PP 6P or 5K. That's pretty much it. Besides that I'm in the neutral game, throwing out PP 6P and then going for 3KP and sometimes just doing 3K and then throwing. Everything else feels like it's too slow and I'll just get CH for throwing stuff out.

And then there's Brad. Here's my best thing. 3P P+K 6P 6 P+K 2P. I recently faced a really good Brad who seemed to know a lot of setup and times to go into Slip and hit me with that P+K elbow into a big juggle combo and a bunch of other stuff.

Kinda makes me salty. Like when I face a Sarah Bryant. I know it took me a while to realize I'm a horrible no nothing scrub at this game cause I was losing to a Lion spamming stuff like 2K+G, 2KK, 6PP and stuff (there was an even worse one mixing in stuff like 8KK, KK, 66P, 6K+G, 43P into some juggle and THAT'S IT, NO MORE ADVANCE THEN THOSE MOVES). But I see a Sarah Bryant body me with what looks like just moves from that one stance to try and get me into a juggle that ends with the throw or whatever and I'm salty.

Sorry, I think maybe this post went on for too long.

 

there's no such thing as "continued offense"....

if your opponent blocks anything other than a P or the few select moves that give you advantage (ex: kage 9kg) you will be at a disadvantage. From there you can only Guard or attempt an evade. If you feel ballsy you can attempt to attack from disadvantage (abare). Seems like you need to play the in game FS tutorial a bunch.

Hmm you obviously know your notations. How about studying the moves you have trouble with. See how negative they are on block so that you can learn to punish spam.

 

I've done the tutorial stuff a while ago. The only thing I have trouble using in a match is that offensive sidestep, sidestep guard cancel and crouch dash guard cancel.

And yeah, I know there are a bunch of moves that are either jab punishable, throw punishable or launcher punishable. I just feel like what I try ends up in a kind of offensive dead end. I'll get frustrated or annoyed of being jabbed out of strings (let's say with Brad) and then suddenly I'm going 2P+K 6P get blocked and then nothing. 4K 6 K and then nothing or PK 3PP and then nothing. Like, I faced another Brad and he was pulling way longer strings than me. Part of it was lack of match up knowledge, but he was doing stuff like comboing me into side turn and then making me either block like 4 hits or avoid a throw. He had some way of going into that 2PKG K+G thing and then 6K after.(whatever the notation for holding forward is, I dunno). Maybe another part of my problem is I should know what direction to sidestep some of these things is...

I also did learn to punish some of that spam, at least Lion spam. Pai spam is still here or there (better with Goh so I can punish... I think 2KK with Goh's cr 3P+K cause it staggers). And I don't know if it's Sarah Bryant SPAM or actual offense. I try to sidestep and get hit. I continue to block and eventually get hit low. Oh, and I also don't really like some of those autopilot-y Lei Fei's. Only recently figured out that backturned kick that knocks you down is sidestepable. Can't stand that one stance seems to counter hits and some attacks deflect punches.

 

What is the difference between "spam" and "actual offense" to you?

We should get some games in and figure out where you should be focusing your time.

 

When you say offensive dead end, what do you mean? If your move is blocked you're at frame disadvantage. 99% of the moves in this game are disadvantageous on block - VF is about those moves, not the 1% that should be used sparingly for frame traps (since most lose to fuzzy anyway). This game doesn't really have block strings, that's SF stuff.

 

That Goh 46K might no be about lag but the fact that you can't use it on fullcircular kicks. You can aply that after some throws if opponent does mid rising kick but not after all of them. One of the best things to do to rising kicks is to just learn to block them.
You can also outright beat them if you time a powerful enough attack to clash with the rising attacks active hit-frames. Easiest move with Goh for this is .

P, 6P is better than doing PP, 6P. PP is not guaranteed on hit anyway and P, 6P is (mostly) uninterruptable on block. If 6P CH's you get to mix up. Also, the common mix-ups in VF are between mids and throws. Learning situations for good throwing opportunities or just watching your opponent and throwing them in situations where they stop attacking is a good thing. And if they are attacking when you have large advantage 6K them.

Learning some defensive techniques for when you are being blocked is a good idea too. If you've got a good connection with Oneida you should give it a go. I'm sure he can give you more precise pointers if he sees how you do first hand on his own screen.

 

Ok, I have seen a player struggle with VF so many times that I have a lot to say on the matter, but I think that if I say too much it will just confuse them and accomplish little. I will try to write something though and try to keep it simple:

step 1: calm down



step 2: Understand that vast majority of moves in this game are disadvantage on block, and thus there is no such thing as "continuous offense". Some of the moves are even disadvantage on HIT (such as most low attacks that don't knock down).

Continuous offense is more of a consequence than actual tactic or strategy. It is what human beings do when a superior opponent gets inside their heads: they turtle up, curl up to a ball and cry "stop hitting me". If you feel like you have been a victim of it, its because you don't yet know how to deal with it, and so your opponents are free to do what they will. The best method of defense against random shenanigans and low launchers and whatever, is to play tight, and pressure your opponent enough so they don't have a chance to do it.



Step 3: Learn how to turn disadvantage into advantage.
This is accomplished universally through first defending successfully, and then immediately using fast basic moves like P, 2P or 6P. If they block P, do 6P like Combolammas said. P, 6P is one of the few 'blockstrings' in this game and it is almost universal. All characters can do it in some fashion even though they may not have 6P elbows. In general beginners often underestimate the potential of simple jab (P) and how completely different it is from PP. P is +2 on block for all characters in the game. And thus, even on block it can be a start of your offensive. The best way to avoid doing PP by accident, is to input P,G.

Especially, you are looking to hit any of these basic moves with a counterhit. When you do, proceed to step 4. Otherwise keep defending and jabbing/elbowing.


Step 4: Know what to do once you actually gain advantage.
After you hit your opponent with counterhit P, 2P or 6P, you usually have enough advantage (depends on character) to do any of your big launches and not have it interrupted. So this step is best accomplished by learning couple actual combos. Unless you know how to damage your opponent, none of the previous setting up does much. On the other hand, unless you know how to get advantage, you may never get the chance to do combos.

But couple combos in your arsenal and you have a much shorter distance to run and survive. Once you have settled on a character, we can discuss simple combos. This step is important also because it gives you a goal. "I want to hit my opponent with a Knee" for example. Hit your opponent with enough knees and you win. Mission accomplished. Hitting your opponent with a big combo gives a much needed boost to confidence and sense of accomplishment. For example Brad: 6K+G, P, 44P, BT 2P, 46K+G.

When your opponent is savvy enough to start fearing your launchers and start blocking, you can add throws to the mix.

 

I want to learn both Brad and Goh if possible. Goh seems more based on reads, heavy damage throws and counterhits but Brad seems to have a lot more potential.

 

brad is pretty much top tier, so yeah... lots of stuff to work with there.

Also, I wont be able to tell you much different from the guys above when it comes to general VF... they are the peeps that taught me VF (sheds a tear in honor of blackstar) But if you need brad help and setups, i can hook you up.

 

Just rely on basics and fundamentals. Basics and fundamentals WILL guarantee you success in any fighting game you play. Some VF basics are blocking, throw escapes, mid/throw mix up(extremely important), and understanding advantage disadvantage.

I also recommend you watch a lot of high level japanese matches on youtube if you can. Some people learn much better visually, so just watch matches for a while to understand whats going on.

 

I know it's too late but I really wanted to respond to this, in case anyone feels like they had the same problem.

I really feel like the OP was at the same stage I was a year or two ago. I could play, I knew enough good moves etc to win, but I was just getting destroyed by competent players.

It took me respecting other people to level up. The people you play are READING you. They are anticipating things you want to do, and quite deliberately shutting them down. They are not stupid, they are smart and they are watching your play. Until you appreciate this and start applying it to your own reads, you will lose to anyone competent.

 

There are definitely some people, with low rank and like 20,000 matches, that are just full stop ASS, tho. Like holy shit.

 

Do you have a local scene? I'd recommend going out to that, or trying to set up some gatherings if you do. Even if your scene consists of one person, that's better than nothing, and playing in tournament is always a sure fire way to get better, and it's a good experience too. I don't really like online personally, I feel that it teaches you bad habits, I tend to avoid it IMO, but if you've got nothing else you have to make do with what you got

 

agreed. In toronto our scene was basically just me and mademan last year, now we have like 16 people coming out. Takes time to grow but ya gotta start somewhere!

 

Why don t u record some matches and through it, we ll be able to advice u easier. What u do good what u do wrong etc... even with ur smartphone it s not important if it s enough clear