Weird Stuff (boredom post)

This isn't intended to be helpful or to spark discussion, I'm just bored. I guess maybe people new to the series will maybe find these random bits neat.

-The subject that inspired this ... Jacky's df+P,P,P. Without a counter, the first hit doesn't combo into the second hit, and the second doesn't combo into the third. With a counter, both the first AND second hits are somehow beefed up so that hit 1 combos to hit 2 (that's normal and expected) and hit 2 combos to hit 3. This is a forgotten move that should be abused like crazy. It's fast (like one frame slower than a punch) and on minor or major counter it's a guaranteed combo that can be followed with u+P. I still don't understand WHY it works, Sega just wants it to be a combo so it is. Another example of this is jacky's [hold forward] PP-f+P-K. In VF3 it's a true combo if you hold forward. I'd assumed the stats for PPf+P were different for the elbow if you held forward, but now I think it might be something like the VF4 df+PPP. In VF2, this weird carried-over-hitstun is seen for some P,P,K combos.

-There is one known bug in evo... brad and goh can do their heavy pounces in situations where the opponent isn't knocked down (when brad and goh have their back turned). You can try it after a surprise exchange, but brace yourself for a reamin'.

-Akira's throw escape is the only one in the game to get a special sound effect when escaped. HaawAAUGHHH!

-Not so weird: Lau's hopping sidekick goes into his canned sidekick combo... sidekick-P-palm. Weird: If you time it right, the sidekick never comes all the way out, but P-palm still does, so it looks like a cancelled kick into the P-palm. Weirdest of all: You can do lau's hop-sweep, then cancel the sweep into P-palm. The timing is hard. I only seem to get it when I hop and hold db after trying the sweep. Not sure if that's a requirement or a fluke.

-If wolf lands a stunner in the opponent's back, like after a tech roll, he can sometimes land the hit throw and teleport through their body for the knee-and-drop animation. To set it up yourself, do f+K+G -> f+P -> f+K and have the CPU tech roll. dash and time a b+K+G to hit them in the back. It may be stance dependent, and getting close enough for the stunner to work is tough.

-I already made a few posts on this weird one - attack --> throw is almost never a true combo, but a few special moves like vanessa's b+P don't allow the opponent to mash out of throws. It's a true combo for these moves. Others include jacky's paksao reversal (autoinashi + punch) and jeffry's f+K+G.

-In evo, brad starts out in open stance while everyone else has always started matches in closed stance since the beginning of VF. Brad is "special".

-While several attacks will knock down an 'unsteady' opponent (when normally they never knock down at all)... only one attack in the game does the opposite. It will normally knock down every time but FAIL to knock down vs a stumbling opponent. That's wolf's b+P ... if it hits after a butt stumble from his D,DF+P or if it hits during a wall stagger, it merely stuns and creates a guaranteed throw situation.

-Wolf's P -> catch (f+P+G) is a true combo on major counter, while I'm on this subject. It's the only throw (catch or not) that does this.

-Rumor has it that on PS2 VF4, there is one difference in gameplay from arcade... you get major counter dodges more easily on 2P side. I tried testing this and it is not confirmed.

-The single palm in akira's stumbling trip, single palm is canned. We all know that. What's interesting is that it's definitely special in the way it hits the opponent. I used to think any perfectly timed sgpm from the correct distance combos into a double palm. But b,dP+G -> single palm into the wall doesn't generate the heavy wall stun you need to get a nearly guaranteed spod, while plain old D,f+P does. So the properties of these moves are different and it's likely sega did it like that on purpose to give akira the ST -> sgpm -> dbpm combo.

-On the subject of Sega Loves Akira, guard break -> SJK is a special combo, the f,f+K executes one frame faster than usual after a successful guard break, guaranteeing damaging float combos like guard break-SJK-shrm-dpbm.

-In VF3, one could get a ring out on the wall stage through a goofy bug - occasionally you would just slide out from between the floor and the walls on the side of the stage, and that's a ring out. Doh. It's captured in a movie.

-On the subject of VF3 bugs, in VF3 OB there was a glitch whereby one could get the opponent airborne with kage (doesn't matter how) and then pretty much mash P+K+G and cause them to freeze. From there you could combo at will or push them out of the ring. Cheap!

-VF3 had an infinite combo. If kage got his shinsodan against taka near a wall, taka kept bouncing up and eating roll after roll until he died. Thankfully it's a rare, difficult to set up situation, not something you can abuse in combat. VF4 has a similar combo, after a wall hit TFT do shinsodan vs. aoi for several hits. But of course she can tech roll if she feels like it.

-If I remember right, taka's was the only back throw in the game that did monster damage AND allowed him to follow up with a combo. Pai's stumbled for combos but does next to no damage. Vs aoi taka could get something like 5 hits on the bounce, and there was no tech rolling so aoi was screwed.

-For people new to VF who think taka sounds like an animal... he was and he wasn't. In early versions taka was almost impossible to knock down. Knees and high kicks and other stuff that normally knocked people down never did against taka. However that made it possible to do nasty hitstun -> throw combos against him... for example knee, throw. Taka could escape the throw, but in those games there was no triple throw escaping, so he was pretty much fucked. A funny example of revenge though: Jacky kickflips and taka low punches. The kickflip nips the tip of taka's hand without knockdown. So jacky lands and taunts, allowing taka a free Giant Throw or Combo of Death. But back to taka being screwed: He floated lower than other characters, but he was very slow to hit the floor and bounced off the floor really well, allowing for stupid combos that were otherwise impossible against other characters. A classic example is lion df+P+G (gets behind taka) -> u+P+K (knocks down) -> lion dodges towards taka's legs -> d+K (hits on the bounce a long time after the knockdown) -> f+P (on the bounce again) -> modified uppercut (FC,f+P) .. again on the bounce -> f+P (otb), P (otb again). Poor taka couldn't do anything about it.

- On the subject of jacky's kickflip taunt...notice the taunt is gone in Evo. In early versions jacky said "come on boy..." in a much much more manly tone than the one he uses now. How disappointing.

-In version A of VF4, back throws were escapeable. There's only one movie in existence showing this happening. Kyasao does it too, attaboy kyasao. There were also some strange game imbalances in version A that allowed for sick combos like jacky P+K,P,K -> PPu+P.

-The lowest documented win percentage chibita has ever had in VF4 is 91 percent. I think I've seen him as high as 94%. His current percentage is 91% and 93% seems to be what he spent the most time at. Chibita played VF3 too, but was one of the lesser known tetsujin. There are clips of him playing VF3 lion.

-Some moves crumple if they hit an unsteady opponent where normally these moves only crumple with a counter, for example lau's f+P+K after a wall stagger will crumple. There is at least one weird move that crumples even though it normally never does otherwise. Wolf's f+P (after f+K+G for example) will crumple an opponent who has been staggered from a FC-uppercut or after a wall stumble.

-There's a movie showing akira'd dodge attack hitting (with the hit noise anyway) but not causing hitstun or knocking down. PS2 (?) weirdness.

-Some fully charged charge attacks lead to combos from a successful hit. Pai's leads to stuff like PPPd+K. Lau's sometimes combos into df+PPPd+K. Wolf's P+K charge attack is evil, inflicting medium high damage and stunning them enough to go into a knee or shoulder ram.

-Kage's jumonji hopkick has bullshit hit detection. Not only can it not be dodged, but if you do a TFT float combo and use PPb+P(hold) to go past the opponent's falling body, it will hit behind kage.

-On the subject of weird hit detection, akira's knee has hit behind him ever since VF2. (VF1?) ... a recent bay area tournament clip shows an akira player (western lariot) just raping goro2000's pai violently... knee, p, shrm, dbpm... spod... then in another round he gets back turned and MC's her with a back turned knee going the wrong way. In Vf2 this was a useful trick, because in VF2 akira's db+P+G surprise exchange was a strong, valuable throw that allowed you to do a deep single palm hit in the back, then combo that into fff+P for big damage. But if akira did a quick knee, the knee stuffed the single palm. But that set up other nasty games for akira.

-Only one missed pounce in the game produces a special sound. Kage's longest range knee pounce makes a loud crunch noise if he hits the floor. Hitting the opponent (which takes an act of god pretty much) causes a major counter boom.

-VF2 obscureness: Saturn version advertised double the speed and resolution of arcade VF2 on the back. And despite shitty textures, the game WAS actually noticeably faster and had higher res. wtf.

-Certain hit throws only work after the opponent is done being stunned (so they can mash out of the throw). Interestingly, these throws allow for you to do some fun stuff between the hit and the throw. For example after d+K, QCF+P+G jeffry can backdash. Ditto for after wolf's uf+P -> f+P+G. You can do any dash or crouch dash between the hit and the throw, and the throw still works if the opponent is throwable.

-After akira's stumbling trip, there's a long window where you can do the automatic single palm or double palm (with QCF+P or QCB,f+P). It's possible to sneak a dash or crouch dash in during this window to create seamless looking dash-dbpm. In VF3, when the stumbling trip was really godly, you could even do many different attacks between the stumble throw and the double palm. Stuff like high kick, jab, elbow, etc worked.

-Virtua Fighter Evo version B comes out December 9th says one japan BBS, no further news available.

-Wolf's pounce randomly fails to track a downed enemy and misses completely, I'd say 1/50 times or so. It's the only one I've ever seen do that.

-Jeffry's dashing elbow-uppercut combo in VF2 used to have a strange property (I think). It was the only move where if you delayed the second hit, you got shorter recovery on it. This made stuff possible like ff+P (delay) P (MC) -> df,df+P+K (the old command for his XPD/splash mountain).

-Face up, head towards ground throws in evo cannot be escaped I think. They're the only ones that cannot.

-Unconfirmed weirdness that I always wondered about: Jacky's 5th lightning kick has cancellable recovery in VF2, true or false. Jeffry's b,df+P in VF3 would hit someone out of a normal sideways roll (i.e. they're knocked down and tap GGGGGG repeatedly).

-Confirmed weirdness... in VF1 jacky could do a d+K puntkick at close range and cancel it into a sidekick. Akira could do kage's PPPK type combos with f+P+K,P,P,K. Combos are shown during the game's demo mode that look canned, but are apparently impossible to do. By circling the stick in demo mode, you can make kage stop doing his usual crap and roll.

-In VF2 it was possible with a pro action replay code to switch the moves between two different characters. I have a tiny clip of pai doing a spod on akira. To get something cool that doesn't require a code: Get both characters near the ring's edge, with the nearest the edge facing out and the other behind them facing their back. Upon time over, one character will stumble out of the ring and start to do their win pose, and the character behind them will copy the win pose perfectly. You can see jeffry lay down and take a swig of liquor, or wolf hop around and dance like a little girly pai. Or make sarah look like a badass ninja, etc. This is called the copy taunt trick.

-If you smack someone during a wall attack, they can be rung out over low walls. For a humorous ring out, try lei fei's uf+K (causes a high flop animation) and sometimes it will punt them cleanly over a wall for a ring out. Rumor has it a bug allows kage to ring out over a high wall by using his ten foot toss in shun di's or the training stage. Nobody can reproduce or capture it.

-Version B aoi had a bug that produced an infinite combo. It involved doing certain moves, guard cancelling, and smacking all three buttons to put you in bug mode. Then you can do specific attacks merely by pressing one button. For example bb+P, or db+K. Once you're in bug mode you can mash repeatedly with these attacks and aoi will just cream the opponent with rapid fire attacks until they're dead. Seeing it with bb+P is especially hilarious, she whirls around with her arm waving in the air like she's twirling a lasso. There are movies available.

-There are combos that work any time, combos that work only with a counter, and combos that work only in open or closed stance. But the weirdest combo I know of works only with no counter in one stance for kage against shun di only. There are quite a few one-character-only combos. For example vs. most characters lei fei does uf+K+G, d+P, uf+K+G, df+K. Vs. vanessa however he can substitute a high punch for the low punch. Only against vanessa is this a true and unescapeable combo.

-On the subject of weird combos, if you use a low attack with certain timing as an opponent crumples, it causes a strange on-the-bounce sound and a better than average float. This makes strange combos possible. For example akira can do fff+P (crumple) -> half a dash -> d+P (hits perfectly for a decent refloat) -> shrm -> dbpm. It's difficult, which makes it almost useless... but it's an interesting fact. Other weird combos from moves that slam/flop the opponent require a tiny dash in order to work. TFT combos vs. light opponents require kage to do a crouch dash knee rather than an instant knee.

-modified (instant from crouch) attacks have been around since VF1. Jacky's iaigeri kick was born in VF2, took a break in 3, and came back in 4. Akira could do it in VF2 as well, you just cancelled a normal high kick on the 12th frame no matter what. It was possible to combo three of these in a row by switching to opposite stance, interrupting with the first one, holding forward to switch stance back to normal, then doing two more. Combo into a modified double palm if you're really good. Not only are triple iai combos on tape, I can do 'em with a little consistency /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif .. they're one of the reasons VF2 is fun to combo with.

-Another reason VF2 was fun to combo with: It was possible to do a punch-kick combo, cancel the kick at the earliest possible frame, then immediately go into another attack. In VF3 and VF4 you're forced to cancel the kick somewhat late, but in VF2 it was possible to do PKGPKGPKGPKG with really quick, perfect timing... in such a way that each punch combo'd into the next. This worked because you were able to cancel the recovery time on the first punch by many frames, enough frames to deliver another punch before the opponent could block. So you could just keep doing rapid fire jabs until the opponent dropped dead. It took about 15 of them and was very, very hard. Shinz is/was the master of senbon nokku (1000 punches), and captured several movies where he did insanely hard combos with like a dozen of these punches strung together in a float for characters like kage, akira, and sarah. Besides using senbon punches to kill the opponent, you could do perfect PKG's to create goofy combos... check out 1/60th of a second's site for movies of these combo. Do PK (cancel) PK (cancel) K (cancel) - modified double palm to create the illusion that akira is doing a PPK combo, cancelling the kick, and going into a double palm.

-VF4, by getting back turned and doing certain sequences pai can glitch out her hopkick in such a way that it cancels into other moves. I've seen hopkick cancelled into DSK and hopkick cancelled into backflip kicks. I have clips somewhere.

-it's possible with an akira sgpm stun in the back to go into a spod, though spod normally cannot work if the opponent is back turned.

-Some characters can change stance back and forth by just walking forward. I haven't tested this extensively but at least jeffry can. This used to only be possible if you'd switched from normal stance to opposite stance, but for jeff it can be done any time. Most characters need to commit to an attack to switch stances, except jacky.

-Certain throws like vanessa's sleeper will keep animating even if the thrower falls out of the ring. Vanessa is gone, but the opponent continues to choke and thrash before falling out themselves.

... this is enough to start, there's so much more and I'll do part 2 the next time I'm bored enough. VF vets are encouraged to reply with their own weirdness, or anyone who has found something strange and buggy and not-well-known in VF.

 

Here's some rambling of my own

hey creed... i was kinda bored too, so i decided to read your post.

ah, yes, VF2, you spark an interest in me, since i have the PC version of that game(and since that was what got me into the VF world)... while i could never get perfect senbon punches and iaigeris(lack of ability plus the fact that they don't ever sell arcade joysticks for the PC anymore), if you uped the settings of the game so that all the detail made the action way slower, i found it easy to do a couple of the combos(but even then i couldn't match ShinZ's extensively long and good combos). call me a cheater, i guess, but i really wanted to record some of the combos(the PC game enables you to save your replays(which can be changed to 1 entire set). anyways, best i ever got was knee(MC),PKGx3,iai,m-dblpm w/akira. i think there may be something with the PC version of the game though... opponents seem to float a LOT farther... or it could just be me... so i found it impossible to do Kage's multiple swipe TFT combo (TFT, senbon swipex3,PPPK) even when i've got the game on slow-mo.

what type of senbon punch combos did VF2 Sarah have that ShinZ did? Sarah's punch is the fastest in the game, tied with Kage and Pai, but perhaps the shortest range of the 3, so it seems insanely hard to do anything really worthwhile with her senbon. of course, i only experienced with the PC version of the game, so maybe things were different in the arcade or the Saturn... please list some.

on the subject of the VF2 senbon, there was this one combo i tried before with Sarah that was basically a true combo, except it wasn't a juggle combo, was a ground combo: PKG(MC)--> kickflip--> light pounce. i found that if you executed the kickflip IMMEDIATELY and had a tight-on PKG(as little recovery as you can), the kickflip would hit them as they were still in hitstun... nice. risky in practice, but stylish. of course, the light pounce would be unavoidable.

stuff to contribute: there was this replay on VF2 PC included where there was this Dural combo done against Jeffry... dunno how many of you know this, but here it is:
TFT--> triple kick--> b+K+G--> Akira's SJK--> Pai's double scissor kicks... what would happen is that everything past the triple kick would hit Jeffry on the bounce, scraping him this way and that... looked very sweet. i experimented and found that you could substitute the triple kick for the rising knee that Dural had(you had a tougher error spot to work with than Kage though... Dural's rising knee was Sarah's, so it had more horizontal momentum). i experimented further and found that from about Shun to Akira, you could do TFT--> rising knee--> PPf+Pub+K... of course, because it's Sarah's rising knee, the error spot is much harder... the knee needed to be near dead on.

that's all i can contribute... i know, VF2's so old, but then again, i'm bored just like you CreeD /versus/images/icons/smile.gif btw, good stuff on the other tidbits of the other games though. i sifted through some of the VF text bundle that Mr. Bungle packaged and found that VF3 Akira could put 2 DLCs into a wall combo(which i still don't think i could believe until i see it in a movie)... which ShinZ managed to do.

 

Okay, you probably have to be as stupid as me (not likely) to find this one.

A few weeks ago my roommate and I were taking turns running through one another's characters with Lion. I must have needed an ego boost or something because when it was his turn with Lion, I picked Jacky. Problem was I didn't shake my hands out I suppose because I start doing stuff like throwing out three d+K+G's per round etc. Somehow I managed to pull even at two rounds a piece in this first fight and in the final I was back to normal. Anyway, he ends up at the edge of the ring with a sliver struggling against my f,f +K stagger and I dash in and throw, not bothering to G cancel the dash because, well, what's Lion's best throw for a ring out anyway?

So my dumb ass clothesline throws myself out the ring, extinguishing Lion's lifebar in the process. The announcer announces "Ring Out" but then I get the round due to the KO. At the time I didn't even realize RO had been announced and saved the fight to the memory card just because I was such a moron. But then I watched it the other day and noticed the faulty announcement...If i remember correctly, this happened at Kage's stage, though I doubt it matters.

 

More Weirdness.

sup /versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

-About VF2PC, I didn't know the slow motion trick to getting cool combos. But yeah, the floats ARE different in that game. Akira kid's senbon combos with sarah were tricky, what he had to do was not hold forward for a bunch of the punches, then switch to holding forward for the rest in the middle of the string. MC rising knee, PKG x 13 (I think), kickflip. Elbow-knee, PKG x 9?, PPPb+K. You could also get very minor looking but powerful combos from her elbow-knee against heavier opponents, i.e. lau f+P,K -> d+P -> f+P,K.

Senbon into another ground-based attack worked in VF2. Towards the end of VF2's life stylish and skilled players would do stuff like this: Akira, after a blocked knee, could counter with PKG -> b,f,f+P+K. Close to half their life. Incidentally, wolf and jeff could save a frame or two with PKG's as well, making stuff like knee, PKGx4, PPP possible.

On the subject of dural combos. Some dural anti-taka combos-

TFT, dash, K,K, SDE, kickflip OTB.
TFT, TAP, TT PP, P,f+P,u/b+K (double punch, both of which hit, punch,
elbow, kickflip, all one canned combo).
TFT, (hit wall), take-off kick, landing kick, PP elbow-kickflip
TFT, run, K,K, TT d+P. <=== actually hard! You need to run so that
you connect with K,K, and then they fall behind you. This might or
might not be vs. aoi, I just remember getting it.
TFT, dash, PKG, b,f+P (shoulder ram), dash, kickflip OTB. Hard to
time.

-I see takeoff kick listed there and though I'd mention something funny... when takeoff kicks still existed, they were the fastest move in the game at only 6 frames I think. By comparison a standard VF4 punch is 12 frames. In VF2 takeoff kicks put the player waaaay up into the air, as high as after a ten foot toss. But in VF3 they only went a little above your head. This made it possible for some characters to combo using the takeoff kick, for example shun di could do d,uf+K,K, land, P -> chouwan upper -> triple sweeps.

-Re: 2 DLC's in a combo... check out this one I once fluked out on taka on VF3's practice mode. Reverse bodycheck (b,df+P+G) -> f,f,f+P -> f,f+p(OTB)-> d+K (OTB) -> bodycheck (OTB) -> at this point taka is still a little 'bouncy'. I went for a ground punch and that hit slightly on the bounce as well, and because taka happened to be near a wall, and went airborne a certain way, it caused "wall dong" animation, which means taka hit the wall and went DONGGG and peeled off the wall slowly. This is fairly normal for a moderate to high float, but it was the first time I'd seen the wall splat animation happen from an OTB hit. Anyway I reacted in time to try a DLC but fucked it up, doh. But it's possible.

-Akira vs. Aoi with heavy slope, stumbling trip, single jumping kick (floats aoi waaaay above your head) -> deeeep bodycheck (akira goes past/through aoi) -> turn towards low kick/sweep. Total damage: 109 pts.

 

CreeD....
Very interesting read Creed. About the Brad open stance start, are you referring to Brad vs. Non-Brad? What about Brad vs. Brad? Closed stance?

Also I have one correction. Akira's VF1 PPPK is f,f+P+K,P,P,K rather than f+P+K,P,P,K. Also, my VF1 Akira knee seems to come out at random occurances. Do you know the true move command for the VF1 Akira knee?

Again, a very entertaining read. I look forward to part 2 /versus/images/icons/smile.gif

 

Re: Here's some rambling of my own

ReCharredSigh...
Is it true that VF2 on PC has TCP/IP Internet multiplayer support? That would rock.

Also, if anyone can answer this, I am wondering if the PC VF2 is arcade speed or Saturn speed.

 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Do you know the true move command for the VF1 Akira knee?

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Akira's knee in VF1 was ++ hold , release within 1 frame (i.e. 1/30 of a second in VF1). It's the same as Akira's knee now but with a tacked on.


cheers,
kbcat

 

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
-If wolf lands a stunner in the opponent's back, like after a tech roll, he can sometimes land the hit throw and teleport through their body for the knee-and-drop animation. To set it up yourself, do f+K+G -> f+P -> f+K and have the CPU tech roll. dash and time a b+K+G to hit them in the back. It may be stance dependent, and getting close enough for the stunner to work is tough.


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The same thing could be done in VF1 with Jeffry's TKoD -- hit the opponent in the back and Jeff would warp to the from of them. Speaking of Jeff warping -- let's not forget that if Shun sat down in VF2 Jeff could powerbomb hit instantly from anywhere in the ring -- repeatedly over and over again until Shun was KOed.


</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
-On the subject of VF3 bugs, in VF3 OB there was a glitch whereby one could get the opponent airborne with kage (doesn't matter how) and then pretty much mash P+K+G and cause them to freeze. From there you could combo at will or push them out of the ring. Cheap!

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I can't remember what we called this bug. But, it did have a name. Here's how it was done. Take any character that has a senbon (PKG) -- float your opponent, do a Senbon then hit all of the buttons (including E) and the opponent would warp to the ground in their normal stance, but they would be unable to do anything until you hit them. Akira could launch someone with a Yoho then go P-Freeze-Spod before you realized that you've been frozen. There was also another property of this bug that an unscrupulus wolf player around TO would use. If you did the "command" for the bug while your opponent was lying on the ground after a knowdown they would freeze to the ground and be unable to get up until you hit them with a ground attack. This local Wolf player would do this after a Twirl so he could always just walk up and pounce you.


another VF2 bug: Reversal Jams.
In VF2 you could do something called a "Reversal Jam" against any opponent that has a reversal. Here's how it worked: when you thought your opponent was going try and reverse you (which was all the time with AKira, because there were no missed reversal animations, and most Akira's would just to "option select", a high punch - low punch string that doubled as a high/mid reversal). I digress.
Anyway, when you thought your opponent was going for a high reverse you would go for a high kick and cancel it with G. But, you keep rapidly tapping G, and your opponent would be frozed in the middle of their reversal animation, and when you finally let got they would finish the animation, usually wraping through you at the same time.
You could do something very very cool with reversal jams. If you had an opponent caught in a jam, and you did hop when you finally stopped tagging G to let them out of the jam they would finish their reversal animation one level up (i.e they are in the air above your head) After that they would be stuck on that plane until you hit them with an attack (usually a take-off kick, or AKira's yoho). Then they would fall to the ground. But, you could also do the reversal jam - level up again! Great fun to do against Dural. If you were really lucky you could get her 3 or 4 levels up.



cheers,
kbcat

 

thought I'd chime in!

akira's knee in VF1 not only had a tacked on but also had the requirement of being in throw distance. That meant you could only knee up close to the opponent..

Jacky couldn't cancel his punt kick in Vf1 for a toekick but he did have a toekick, sidekick combo that was removed for later versions. the motion was unique to jacky and required that tricky throw distance: +

Pai had a reversal Jam in VF1 as well but could only be done against CPU. rapid cancelling of standing kicks would sometimes freeze Pai in a crouched position and there she would stay until hit or thrown.

Wolf's pounce has always hit oddly in every version. in Vf1 a successful pounce sometimes meant you were facing away from your opponent when you both rose from the ground.

VF2 shun could change stance at will by cancelling a backwards dash. + repeated would create the situation of Shun continually changing his stance but not moving him backwards.. This was important for seting up combos for Shun but was likely not intended.

in VF2 everyone could do a CD low punch punch using P+K if it suited them. except Lion who would always get an instant standing punch.
VF2 Wolf and Jeff had an interesting trick where rapid back dashes caused them to "float" backwards. Their legs would remain motionless and they would simply coast backwards.

VF1 Lau had a theoretical infinte. + into repeated single punches could keep an opponent floated from one end of the ring to the other.

Gotta get to work!

GE

 

nitpick time!!#!@

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
In VF3, one could get a ring out on the wall stage through a goofy bug - occasionally you would just slide out from between the floor and the walls on the side of the stage, and that's a ring out. Doh. It's captured in a movie.

[/ QUOTE ]

mostly only happened in lau or lion's stage. otherwise was very rare, and i never saw it in tb arcade.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
On the subject of VF3 bugs, in VF3 OB there was a glitch whereby one could get the opponent airborne with kage (doesn't matter how) and then pretty much mash P+K+G and cause them to freeze. From there you could combo at will or push them out of the ring. Cheap!

[/ QUOTE ]

from my vf3 codes guide:

The Warp Bug:
This will only work on the 1P (left) side and only with characters that can
cancel their high kicks. While an opponent is airborne during a throw or during
a float or bouncing on the ground, cancel a high kick and press G+E immediately
afterwards. If timed correctly they will be frozen, completely unable to move,
standing up or lying down. Works on the CPU and in vs mode alike.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
If I remember right, taka's was the only back throw in the game that did monster damage AND allowed him to follow up with a combo. Pai's stumbled for combos but does next to no damage. Vs aoi taka could get something like 5 hits on the bounce, and there was no tech rolling so aoi was screwed.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's the low back throw you're thinking of (i think), and he could only combo on aoi.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Jeffry's dashing elbow-uppercut combo in VF2 used to have a strange property (I think). It was the only move where if you delayed the second hit, you got shorter recovery on it. This made stuff possible like ff+P (delay) P (MC) -> df,df+P+K (the old command for his XPD/splash mountain).

[/ QUOTE ]

ehh!? no, the uppercut rec time is the same. you get the throw because it MC's, no different than d+P MC -> throw or P MC -> throw.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Unconfirmed weirdness that I always wondered about: Jacky's 5th lightning kick has cancellable recovery in VF2, true or false.

[/ QUOTE ]

true, but only if it whiffs or is blocked. if it hits, you see the whole thing. but otherwise it's plain as day - if you're not reamed with a nasty mC - you can see the animation stutter and shorten like when you struggled out of the stumble animation from the vf2 sgpm animation on a croucher.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Akira could do kage's PPPK type combos with f+P+K,P,P,K. Combos are shown during the game's demo mode that look canned, but are apparently impossible to do. By circling the stick in demo mode, you can make kage stop doing his usual crap and roll.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey download the text archive, there's tons more of this sort of shit in codes docs i wrote.

 

Re: Here's some rambling of my own

PC vf2 is arcade speed I think, and supports internet play. After several matches I've decided it's ok for fucking around but not for serious VF2 play... the problem of lag just makes tight execution too hard in VF2.

 

Re: Here's some rambling of my own

Obviously it would be just for fun. No one in the right mind would be trying to be competitive over it.

 

Weirdness Part 2

-In VF1, Kage's f,f+P+K+G could be reversed as a high attack by pai, she simply pressed b+P and kage goes from rolling along the floor with his heels in front of him to flipping around with pai clutching his wrist.

-VF3 wolf vs. Taka, it was possible to put a rising sweep into a combo. This is the only way that I know of to put a rising sweep into the middle of a combo. It involved hitting taka (from behind I think) with wolf's b,f+K+G, which leaves him grounded, then tapping d+K repeatedly for a rising sweep, then you could continue into b,f+P+K, then d+K.

-Shun's flying headbutt, the one that requires some drinks, can be reversed as a high punch. I'm not sure if this works beyond VF2.

-Kage cannonball dive was around since VF2, but required long range. I think you pressed and held UF+K to get it.

-Pai's high kick in VF2 would combo otb. Do uf+P (hop punch) then dash and tap K to knock them off the floor. You get the unique VF2 high kick flipover animation, which is similar to vanessa's low kick - PP animation in VF4. This is the only high attack that hits on the bounce that I can think of. Similarly, jacky could combo shin slicer OTB from a knee, and sarah after an elbow-knee. A small crouch dash forward is required. The goofy faceplant shin slicer animation occurs from hits OTB.

-An akira yoho didn't used to float in VF2, it caused an animation similar to the above. But a yoho hit from directly behind caused a reverse flip animation and from this you could combo into another yoho.

-You could throw akira out of his bodycheck in VF1/2.
It was a normal throw, not a back throw.

-Jeffry's stance P (blocked) -> f+P+G hit throw is the only one in the series to require a guarding opponent. It really isn't a hit throw when you look at it that way. Other weirdness: Jeffry's d+K+G caused crumple animation on major counter in version B, but in version C doesn't crumple. However a d+K+G WILL crumple in version C if used immediately after the stance throw. This still works in evo and sets up a big combo for jeffry - stance throw -> d+K+G -> bigass uppercut (new df,df+P?) -> K,K,P.

-VF2's throwing system would feel weird to VF4 people. There was no execution time to throws, but to compensate there was very little range. To further ensure throws were fair, you had a built in "no throw" period after blocked attacks... eight frames I think. This meant that in VF2 an attack had to be punch counterable to be counterable at all. Also, since throws did not have a whiff animation, you could use simple motions to get either a throw or attack. For example if sarah knows an opponent will block, she can do f,f+P and the opponent will either throw if they're standing or be elbow staggered if they ducked. Fuzzy guarding was the solution to avoiding this. Other nasty option selects include pai's f,d+P (DDT or low punch) and akira's db+P+G (surprise exchange or low punch). Akira could also enter reversal motions and if they whiffed they turned into a high or low punch. This was pretty strong, a mid reversal would either reverse their mid attack, or if they went high/low your low punch would win. Abusing these tricks was called 'option select'.

-On the subject of game balance and things that would scare people who have never played VF2:
Jacky's db+P floated on interrupt and guaranteed a 40-50% combo.
PPf+P,K was a true combo for jacky, ~40% from a single punch. An u+P pounce afterwards was hard to get out of, making it a 100+ pt combo.
Sarah's PPPb+K was a true combo in some cases (I'd thought all cases?) for a similarly nasty 40% from a single punch. For many characters P,K, pounce was a combo for a lot of damage.
Lau got PPK as a true combo, currently df+P,P,K still works.
Pai's DDT throw, which currently does like 40-50 pts, used to do something like 70 on minor counter in VF2. Her stumbling trip combo'd mysteriously into PPPK (first two punches whiff) so she had several throws as powerful as the best throws in VF4.
Kage's TFT combos did over half your life and had as much or more ring out potential than VF4's. VF3 also had seriously nasty TFT combos, only in VF4 do you have to work for 40% life. Kage could also combo f,f+K after virtually any knockdown. This allowed for pretty strong combos like f+P (stagger) -> P,K -> slide.. about 50%. In VF3 this was replaced basically with his running slide. Also running slide in VF3 could be used to start combos, the opponent flipped high over kage's head (behind him) and a turn towards attack would combo.
Wolf's giant swing was 100 points in VF2 pretty much no matter what, and got added damage if it was a minor counter to a slow recovery move. Wolf could run after the opponent and pounce on them, and a whiffed giant swing turned into a simple high punch. So wolf was pretty scary.
Lau's upknife used to hit true mid in VF2, and was incredibly fast. It was possible to do upknife - P, forcing the opponent into blockstun (the upknife stood you up if blocked)... then you could immediately do another modified upknife - P. The speed of consecutive upknife-P combos was so quick that even if the opponent was blocking, he literally could not attack lau between upknives. High punch, low punch, any other attack would lose to the next upknife and you would be floated for a 50% life combo. The best way out of the sequence was to either A: pick a character with a punch reversal or B: crouch dash backwards so that the next upknife whiffed, then interrupt the followup P. The upknifePupknifeP pattern was called the lau rush. Victims of it were called fried noodles =P ..
Lion's sidekick was his tool of death in VF2, it knocked down on major counter and combo'd into low punch, high pounce. Total damage was close to 45%.

-Lion and shun were the first to be able to dodge in the VF series, since VF2. But because there wasn't a real dodge system in place in VF2, attacks always tracked them.

-In VF3 everyone was given a canned dodging kick, a canned dodging jab, and a strange E-sidekick. The dodge punch wouldn't combo into anything, nor would the dodge kick. But there were uses for these strange moves. You could dodge and cancel the kick to effectively do a uniquely animated dodge... the character ducks a little and is in the middle of executing an attack, so they were unthrowable during this dodge. It sounds more useful than it actually is. The dodging sidekick had 100% tracking ability, the sidekick could start executing in one direction then rotate up to 90 degrees in midexecution. It always knocked down . This was the earliest dodge attack, but some other dodge attacks were present in VF3. Akira could do his with b,f+P+K+E (I think). Kage's df+P+K was the precursor to his current DA.

-A weird use of the E button in VF3. Kage is able to do b+P or PPb+P to go past the opponent's falling body after a TFT, and we know he can combo TT attacks from kyasao's nifty clips. In VF3 you could do the following - TFT, modified FC,DF+P chop -> d+P+E, d+P+E -> kickflip. The d+P+E allowed kage to do a regular low punch without turning around, so all the hits connected behind kage's back and keep them hovering somewhere above his head throughout the combo. It's no longer possible to do this, almost every single other TFT combo (except running slide combos) still works.

-Throw interruptable moves have been around for a while, I think since VF1. I know that in VF2 pai's db+P was throw interruptable. A few specific moves in VF4 have this property, such as the second hit of lion's QCB+P,P.

-The first command throw escape (command throw = throws that aren't P+G) was in VF2, pressing b+P+G escaped jeffry's b+P+G throw. It was the only such escape in the game. Double throw escaping was possible to avoid his P+G and b+P+G. The escape animation was quite different, the opponent rolled backwards off of jeffry's palms and landed on their feet behind him, giving them a free back throw. Many characters like pai and lau didn't have a back throw in VF2 though /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif

-On the subject of throw escapes, VF3 had several guaranteed followups to throw escapes... escaping throws such as sarah's b,f+P+G or pai's f+P+G gave you a free side throw.

-Some of the okizeme tricks in VF3, the tricks that originated the term urawamari:
Kage knocks the opponent down and does a low kick or DF+P over their fallen body. This somehow tricks the computer into making the opponent get up and attack in the wrong direction. Akira could low kick after df+P+G I think and do the same thing. Pai could always do uf+K after a P+G throw.

-VF4 is the first game where rising attacks are vulnerable. In previous games they were invincible. You could make use of this in strange ways: Take a nearly invincible attack like sarah's back turned sweep (and also her regular df+K+G sweep) and use it during a completely invincible rising attack. Sarah's leg passes right through their ankles without harm, their kick passes over sarah's head, and sarah recovers in a position where she can easily throw you. There was a fun exception. Akira's face down, (head towards?) high rising attack had vulnerable frames, and another akira could shoulder ram him out of it... this is in VF3 OB. In TB this was fixed, and in VF4 akira gets the safest rising attacks in the game.

-Jacky's low backfist is probably the most constantly changing attack in VF. It changed a tiny bit in animation from VF1 to VF2 but otherwise felt the same. In VF2 to VF3 the recovery was made crappier and it didn't float them, so you could only combo into a sweep. Then in Vf4 the animation changed majorly and the attack stopped knocking down. In Evo the move's animation changed again. A lot of moves have gradually gotten crappier and crappier in this way. Sarah's elbow knee used to be a pretty reliable two hit knockdown and I think it was uncounterable. Then it became punch counterable, but was still quite reliable. Then in VF3 it got all flaky and the knee frequently missed, especially after elbow staggers and with slope issues. But at least you could land a ground kick or pounce afterwards, and vs. taka a high pounce. Then in VF4 it stayed flaky and they could tech roll out of the pounce.

-Jeffry (and several others) had a normal looking turn towards high punch and high kick that was technically crouching recovery. Conversely, lion had a double low peck (db+P,P) that was reversible as a high attack. Lau and Pai's PPPsweep used to recover high, you could high throw them even though they appear to be crouching.

-A cool trick that no longer works in VF4. This may be due to the stop animation of attacks in VF3 when they're blocked, or it might be due to recovery issues... but wolf and jeff could block a sweep, dodge to the opponent's side, then land a guaranteed low side throw on them.

-There were a lot of weird little differences between the earliest versions of VF games and the later versions. Version A of VF4 didn't have vanessa. Earliest versions of VF3 had some gameplay issues, lion's uf+K was a mini pounce that could be repeated over and over. The costumes were weird in early test versions. Lau in VF3 had his red top and this loud zigzagging green and blue patterns on his pants. Pai had a pink ballerina costume. Aoi had a plaid skirt and white shirt schoolgirl outfit (i.e. like ling's in tekken 3). Shun had a backpack and a bright yellow and green outfit. Early designs/artwork for VF4 had cool stuff like sarah in a chinese madame dragon dress, lion in a terry bogard outfit, jeffry in an army jacket, Aoi has some horrible modern angular thing that reminds me of the boss of samurai shodown 2.

-In VF3 you could get hidden win poses with certain combinations of buttons, like pai could mock akira's winning quote (come back in another ten years or something that meant "you need another 10 years [of training] to beat me"... she blows akira a kiss. Only in a pai vs. akira battle. Kage could be made to flash a peace sign, and sometimes a big metal tub/sink fell onto his head. You could also make a snowman appear in wolf's desert stage.

-it's possible to see sarah's VF3 stage train fly across sky in the nighttime version of the desert stage in on the dreamcast (and I think the arcade?). On the subject of the train, you could do a turn-away attack at the start of the round in the subway, and then run into the train as it passes by at the beginning of the match. It put you a hair away from KO. You could also get combo'd into the train with a certain unlikely setup.

-Pai has the only "chicken" (tekkenese for a reversal reversal) in the game, she had it in VF3 too. If one pai reverses another's high kick, the reversal victim can press P+G to get out of it.

-When KO'd on his stage, jacky could use a certain command to make an eagle fly in from the background and pick up his fallen body and fly away.

-Sarah's earrings changed color depending on what character she was fighting against in VF3.

-After several draws you fight on a shrunken floor in VF3.

-Kage can do repeated rolls that hit, this is called the shinsodan. When he does it there's a unique sound... it's from sonic the hedgehog. It's easy to see the connection. There's a little injoke on pai's VF3 stage: the chinese characters say "hedgehog importing company". On wolf's desert stage kage could turn around and do a backwards shinsodan to run away rapidly from the opponent. Because the stage is seemingly endless, it was hard to catch up and punish kage. The stage actually is not endless: After a long time you run into invisible walls, which do not allow wall throws.

-From mr. bungle's text archive,
"The Shun Dance":
As with the Akira dance, the Shun is a series of moves executed by two Shun players in the ring. Again, the moves will not connect.
1) P1 Shun df+P+G throws P2 Shun. From there both Shun's execute the following moves, one immediately after the other, in sync:

2) b+E,P
3) ub+E,P+K
4) uf+P
5) uf+E
6) df+K+E
7) HCB,P+K
8) b,b
9) P,K
10) d,d
11) P+K+G (drink)

...there's a movie of the akira dance but the shun dance has never been captured.

I think I'll cut it short for now. There's more of course.

 

Re: Weirdness Part 2

>> After several draws you fight on a shrunken floor in VF3.

that's vf1 and vf2. vf3 left both fighters with just five hit points left with the stage untouched.

also, in vf2, a throw was guaranteed at +10 for opponent; numerous punches and attacks were "faster" than throws. in vf3 it was +8, so vf4 holds the same concept as vf3 - if it is counterable at all, it is throw counterable.

also you can throw akira out of his bodycheck in vf3 a-d, but only out of his DLC bodycheck in vf3tb.

nitpYiKC!@@!

 

Re: Weirdness Part 2

With regards to Jacky, his moves are getting crappier.

This is slightly outta topic. Take for example, his lightning storm replacement. Its hardly practical for anything.

I pretty much prefer using the VF4C jacky. At least, his moves didn't look that crappy. Some crappy stuff were still "use-able".

Some other characters are getting crappier stuff as well. Oh well, maybe thats what they call "gameplay balance". I rather they do away with all the fancy new moves which are sometimes hardly useful.

Its about quality of moves, rather than the quantity of it. Just have a look at the Japanese video clips. Usually, the Japanese players seldom use most of the moves.

Why? Perhaps, its like what u said, some moves are getting crappier and crappier. If they don't have a crappiest level, then they probably have an ultimate crappy level to downgrade "overpowered" characters.

 

Re: Weirdness Part 2

when i did Akira's knee after ko'ing the opp near the edge of the ring on the beach level, i flew miles past the screen, out of the ring. it was like really fast hovering. /versus/images/icons/confused.gif

 

Re: Weirdness Part 2

Well, talk about crap

 

Re: Weirdness Part 2

that's comical. db+P = an attack that deserves an "of doom" extension.

Sort of on topic: Has anyone confirmed a guaranteed punishment to ff+P+K+G if it hits? I know akira can dbpm, but can anything else work? Lau/Pai heelkicks fail. Does it require kage to hit earlier rather than later maybe?