What a reality check! Jacky, general VF4 pointers please.

Discussion in 'Jacky' started by Trashcan, Jun 3, 2002.

  1. Trashcan

    Trashcan Member

    Being a veteran Dead or Alive and Bloody Roar player, I decided to make the jump to Virtua Fighter after playing VF4 at my friend's house and getting my ass whipped by an old drunkard and a dancing bald guy. So I decked out 80$ (Canadian) and sat in front of my PS2 all day long. Anyway...

    The last time I played Virtua Fighter it was the 1st one. Remembering the old days, I took Jacky, not listening to my friend's little laughs. Ow. Seems like he has been downtoned BIG TIME. Not a bad thing if you ask me.

    Now I am on a crusade to make Jacky as good in my hands as he was in the old days. Not an easy task you say, having read the different threads about Jacky being a "sissy" and him having no depht, I am sure it isn't. However, I will succeed. Mwahahaha. No depht is a false sensation, it is always possible to go farther, you should see what me and my friend can make out of Bloody Roar, which is usually seen as a no-depht, cheap ass class fighting game (which I do not agree).

    But I might need some help. I got the movelist, but it has only got me so far as the 1st dan. I keep jumping from 1st dan to 1st kyu ever since.

    I would like to know some good strategies with him, what I should use the most and his strong points, also some pointers on what is different between VF4, DoA2:H and BR3 in term of fighting style. Spare me the countering difference, I noticed it /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif.

    Thanks

    PS.: I have already read the FAQs.
     
  2. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Jacky may have been towned down (he was towned down a bit from Ver. B to Ver. C -- PS2 version is Ver. C) but he's still by far the 'strongest' character in the game. A *LOT* of good moves are basically worthless against him b/c of his inashi. He's got a lot of floaters, he's quick, and his hits do a lot of damage.

    So, with that in mind, I think the best way would be to watch some vids, and see what they do. Definitely the best way unless you have a friend that uses him that can 'show' you some stuff.
     
  3. Wedge

    Wedge Member

    People like to criticize Jacky, but I think he's a solid character. I started playing VF4 with Jacky (VF4 was the first fighting game I ever really played btw) and he is a good beginner character, but that doesn't mean that he can't compete against characters with more difficult movelists.
     
  4. ReCharredSigh

    ReCharredSigh Well-Known Member

    if you tried playing jacky like VF1, or even VF2, of course you're not going to get anywhere with him and of course he's going to seem toned down.

    he's still one of the best characters in the game; hah, ignore what others say, skill is still skill; if you win more, it's cause you're better.

    for starters, try hyun's starting guide for tekken players(you don't need tekken expertise to read it and learn) and skip down to the jacky section. then go download some movies of jacky videos, then come back.

    oh yeah you read the FAQs, eh? well, go back and read hyun's FAQ again, it's an excellant pointer on how to play as jacky.

    last notes, don't try to learn the game off of the movelist alone, it won't help(unless if you get some analysis from it)

    jacky isn't toned down; right next to akira and lau, he's one of the characters in the game who can win from only PG, LP, elbow(SDE for akira), and throw alone(of course, mix in more moves at your discretion). of course, for jacky, mix in beatknuckle-backfist and knee for combo starters.
     
  5. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    I think everyone's missing my point. Yes -- he's probably the BEST character to use for beginners. But with that in mind, when you get a REALLY GOOD Jacky player, it becomes a bit of a piss take, and matches can be over quite quick. I find that you have to play more mind games than apply ass kicking skills or quick moves.

    If anyone else agrees w/ me -- learn Aoi. Jacky doesn't have a single move that I know of that can't be reversed, and only a handful that can't be inashi'ed.
     
  6. Blondie

    Blondie Well-Known Member

    Uhm.................ass kicking skills "ARE MIND GAMES" and quick moves are what keep Jacky from getting overpowered. I'd like to know, seriously, why anyone thinks Jacky is the strongest character in the game. What moves can he whore? Against a good player hopefully you say none.
     
  7. ReCharredSigh

    ReCharredSigh Well-Known Member

    amen...actually, if you face any really good player, you're gonna get reamed...bottom line is, if you're good, you're good. a really good jacky expert is damn annoying and skilled, but you're missing the point... does that take away from the skilled akiras or the kages or the laus or jeffrys? all of these characters in their own light when played with experts are also very scary to behold, and you can also lose the game quickly from 1-3 mistakes against these characters(and i haven't even touched on the other characters).

    i guess it's very hard to put each character in a tier category in VF4, but ASSUMING that we could, i guess most people would place jacky near the top, if not the top.
     
  8. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Of course someone can go against a skilled Jacky and win, I do it from time to time, but unlses you're using a heavy character, you have to get more floaters & crumbles in, or you're over.

    Jacky's got a vicious elbow, and a kick (ff K I think). Not to mention his P+K,PK combo. He's also gota fantastic evasive attack, 2nd maybe only to Kage's. As a character, he's extremely rewarding to just sit there, wait for an opportunity, and unload.

    Was playing the other day against a 10-dan Jacky, and offered to my friend, who's got a 7-dan vanessa, and a 5-dan Jacky. He gave me a look and said, "NO! I hate playing against Jacky".

    It's not a big secret guys... high ranking Jacky's are everywhere. Nobody's shocked to see a Jacky passed 10-dan.
     
  9. alucard

    alucard Well-Known Member

    Jacky may have been towned down (he was towned down a bit from Ver. B to Ver. C -- PS2 version is Ver. C) but he's still by far the 'strongest' character in the game.

    I disagree. Jacky got powered UP from Ver.B in Ver.C. In fact, he is one of the most improved characters in Ver.C(apart from maybe Pai and Kage).

    Jacky received a truck load of special highs in Ver.C.
    His f,f+k now sit down staggers on normal hit, D_d/f+p does the same on MC.
    A throw is now guaranteed after his inashi.
    b+p(p) head crumples on MC and the follow up combo does massive damage.

    He only lost 3 things in Ver.C.
    -10pts from P+G, -12pts(?) from b,f+k+g, and Beat knuckle no longer tracks and its a special mid.

    I will agree with you that Jacky is one of the strongest(if not the strongest) in VF4C, but so is Lau, Akira, Kage, etc...IMO, the disparity is not great as to make the game unplayable.
     
  10. Trashcan

    Trashcan Member

    Well, now I've found that my elbow and LPs are V. good to stop my enemies combos, and I have quite a few floaters hits. Still, when I get them floating, either with my f+k knee or anything else, I can't do anything but PPP. Still gotta work on that, since there is no really in depht Jacky FAQ out there. Might write a Jacky FAQ eventually, I'm pretty good at these.

    P+K,P,K is pretty cool to watch, but doesn't seem to do as much damage as a b+p, b/d+p, u/b+k combo, still I think the first one is canned, while the second isn't.

    Now I've learned to play Jacky like a bastard, still I have some troubles decking high amount of damage fast, but I'm getting pretty good at decking small amounts after small amount, wearing my opponents down. 3rd dan after 4 days, 450 matches.

    d/f, d/f + P + G is evil. No wonder it's called sadistic hanging knee, heh.

    Thanks for help people. Though from what I have seen so far there is no best or worst character in the game, so stop bitching each other over that /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif
     
  11. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    Not sure what the Beat Knuckle is -- is that P+K? Not sure what Tracking means either, but from Ver. B to Ver. C it's a direct punch, meaning it can be dodged. Ver. B it couldn't.

    Lemme dig up the list --- every Jacky player I know was pissed from Ver. B to Ver. C. Not as bad as Lau, that's for damn sure.

    At least someone here finally agrees w/ me that Jacky is just a tough bastard. I'm kind of on the Pai-kick now, meaning that an even mediocre Pai can kick some serious ass. This (no-card) Pai was tearing me up. Beat my Lion, Vanessa, & Lei Fei. Vanessa I'm not so hot w/, but my Lion & Lei aren't that bad. So, just for kicks, I got out Pai, who i've fought w/ maybe 10-12 times, and destroyed his ass -- it wasn't even a match. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  12. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    This is an incomplete list, but all I could find. I lost the link to the other one, that had everything for everyone:

    -Spinning Knuckle (4P) crumbles on Counter
    -Smash UPper (2_3P) from 19 to 22 damage. No counter-attackwhen guarded.Normal hit doesn't knock down. Counter hit knock opponent on his butt
    -Dash Hammer Kick (66K) Normal kick knocks opponent on butt.
    -Spining Rosepin Kick (K+G2+K+G) Longer recover time.
    -Spin Leg Slicer (2K+G,K) - 2nd kick is special high, and a direct attack (no spin anymore)
    -Hit Spin Kick P+K,K counter hit has gone from rather disadvantageous, to advantageous (doesn't say for who though. /versus/images/icons/smile.gif )
    -Slide Shuffle (4P+K+G) moves come out quicker
    Short Slide Shuffle attacks come out instantly
    Input time for Punch, launched during 'Paksao Kncukle Paksao' (don't know the name of that move -- weird katakana) takes longer.

    Looks more like they tweaked him, rather than made him better or worse. I'll let you know if I find a different list.
     
  13. Tetra

    Tetra Well-Known Member

    well..... i thought special mid is moves that can be blocked while crouching. But beat knuckle staggers when u crouch and block in verC
     
  14. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    No ah..special mids generally mean crouching defenders will be forced to stand.

    Like the first part of Jacky's lighting storm, the knee forces crouching defender to stand.

    NEWBIE NOTE:

    For any newbies that might be reading...

    Special High->ability to crush low p or any attempts to attack by a crouching opponent.
    Special mid-> moves that forces the crouching defender into a standing position
    Special low-> Low moves that can be guarded while standing.
     
  15. Tetra

    Tetra Well-Known Member

    ya it forces u up and u guard it too without damage just like chouwan isn't it?
     
  16. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    yah yah
    chowan is special mid.

    So basically, beatknuckle is not special mid...more akin to normal elbow class attack...staggers a crouching defender.
     
  17. Blondie

    Blondie Well-Known Member

    =), no offense man but before you go and start talking about Jacky being Overpowering, and a real bastard. I might want to make sure that I know what the Beatknuckle is. Jacky is simply the most straight up character in the game. With his punches and kicks, there's nothing funny looking like what you see with Lion's moves or Lei Fei. Jacky is a straight punch and kick character. A good Jacky player will pelt you until you Cry! He has a lot of moves, many that you named were THROW COUNTERABLE, so I say again. Whats with people thinking Jacky is a scrub character and a bastard. He's the most straight up punch and kick character in THE GAME!!! =) I rest my case now. later.

    p.s.- Against any good player you can't abuse ANY moves. So basically by announcing that a move or character is whorable, you openly admit your inability to understand the game. This goes for anyone. I've done it from time to time just ranting and raving I guess.........................Nevermind the P.S. LOL =).
     
  18. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    I think the shuffle step kick recovers longer too. I remember in Version B the iaigeri > knee was virtually guaranteed, whereas now in Version C iaigeri > elbow can be struggled out of, though rather difficult.
     
  19. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    You say tomatoe, I say tomatoe.

    Sorry I don't learn the moves names. I've never read the console manual, and I've never played Jacky, so why bother reading through a bunch of moves in katakana that I'm never going to use? Honestly, I don't know any of the charactes moves names. Mainly b/c they're all a F***ked up mish-mash of kanji that don't make too much sense. 10x easier to just say the command.

    No go have fun P+KPK'ing you're friends to death.
     
  20. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    Actually...iaigeri elbow is rather easy to struggle out.
    But it's all good.
    Jacky can do much more once u struggle out n focus on Guard or low p KEKEKEKE.

    Anyway...I find it easier ..compared to say, Lion FC throw, b,f+k+g...pounce.

    I HAVE SOOOOOO MUCH TROUBLES STRUGGLING OUTTA THAT COMBO..... /versus/images/icons/frown.gif
     

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