What characters are good for beginners?

Re: Rant mode on. Swe lost hockey = damn.

Pai is the best beginner character. Her main drawback is damage per hit, but she's fast and uncomplicated.

 

Re: Rant mode on. Swe lost hockey = damn.

That's a really good point about the fewer-moves characters making it easier to understand the system. I guess the only reason I really said all that crap about Shun was to point out that he's as good a character for a beginner as any. They all have advantages and disadvantages. For example, you said playing Shun makes it easier to beat him. That's definitely true. So on that note, if you play a character who doesn't have all those wierd moves with odd set-ups and shit, you won't learn how to combat or defend them as easily. But since every character is so different, and since they are all pretty equal -- more than in most fighting games with this much variety -- you'd have to master all of them to understand the system completely. So really, to any beginner, I would suggest picking the character who attracts you the most, for whatever reason.
Which goes back to my generalization in my third post. I tend to think that Akira and Shun have the deepest styles. They were the most complex in the original (for Sega CD - OLDSCHOOL!) and they've kept that reputation throughout the series. But every character has depth, not only because each style is based on a real martial art, but also because the game's creators know that that depth and strategy is necessary to keep all the characters on an equal playing field.
I know that this game is well-thought-out enough and well-designed enough that any character you choose, including Shun or Akira or Kage, is a good character to begin with. It all goes back to who you want to master first.

Love and Peace, people . . .

-Chuck

 

Re: Rant mode on. Swe lost hockey = damn.

Oh, I almost forgot. Shun does have some patterns that are easy to fall into, but I got out of them after my friend figured them out. And that was before I even had a PS2, so I know the AI will figure out whatever patterns he has ( there aren't many ) in the first arcade. He's pretty transparent if you play him repetitively. That's what I meant when I said he'll teach you variety.

Peace

 

Re: Rant mode on. Swe lost hockey = damn.

Oh oh, and before I forget . . .
Just go through training with your character before you play. It'll teach you everything you need to know to start in the first arcade, including some nitaku setups.

I think that's all. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

Re: Rant mode on. Swe lost hockey = damn.

Okay, one more thing.
Shun is not that strange. The strangest thing about him is his drinking moves. His moves execute just like everyone elses. Except Kage. He's just really really jumpy and shit (which is what makes him fun.)
I mean, every character has moves that look different from any other character. People often think Shun is hard to play because his moves are odd. But they're not. They just look the strangest. I mean, Akira's moves look so simple, but the input commands for some of them are insanely complex, as far as timing and the number of buttons you have to push -- good Lord!
Again, pick the charcter who's coolest in your eyes.

I'm out. ( time for sleep . . . )

-Chuck [Z z z z z z z z . . .]

 

Re: Rant mode on. Swe lost hockey = damn.

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HungOver said:
Shun is not that strange. The strangest thing about him is his drinking moves. His moves execute just like everyone elses. Except Kage. He's just really really jumpy and shit (which is what makes him fun.)
I mean, every character has moves that look different from any other character. People often think Shun is hard to play because his moves are odd. But they're not. They just look the strangest.

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no... shun's move have weird properties. , beat low attacks. goes under mids. beats mids + special high.. the list goes on.

Characters like kage have not many of these moves, being the only move i can think of that has weird 'beating' properties.

I agree very much with what Maddy says, except I wouldn't put Lion in that category.

 

Re: Rant mode on. Swe lost hockey = damn.

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One is standard characters, and the other is non standard ones.

The second group contains Shun, Lion, Leifei, and Van. Aoi could be in this group,too. Characteristics of those characters are they have lots of moves with special properties to compensate for their unstandard characteristics. (e.i. Vanessa has the slowest punch in the game, Lion has a one frame slower low P, Lei's P gives him -4 on block etc.)

I'd like to recommend all those who are willing to give a VF shot to pick a character that are not in the group above.


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Yeah, and I had to pick two of them - Aoi and Lei Fei. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I think that there's an underlying issue to this 'debate' that is causing a lot of turmoil, and that's the definition of 'new'. You can have two types of 'new' players.

Type A is composed of veteran PvP gamers (like myself) who have for whatever reason decided to try the Virtua Fighter series. These players most likely are experienced in basic tactics (throw/hit setup, dodging, rushing, blocking, forcing advantageous situations) but not in the VF mechanics behind these. These players are easily capable of progressing with the most difficult characters from the very start, since they will rapidly learn the underlying mechanics which will allow them to apply the skills they've learned over the years, and will be less likely to be 'overwhelmed' by strange moves, wierd hit properties, stances and move flowcharts. These 'new' players can start out with a Shun, an Akira, Aoi, Lei Fei, Wolf, or nearly anyone, because they're not going to be intimidated at the challenge posed by learning both the character and the game. That's not to say that they'll be expert VF players from the very start or be able to walk through the game - but they won't be wondering which button will activate the Level 3 Supermove, either. True, they'd most likely progress faster with a 'simpler' character such as Lau or Jacky. But these type of players are also known to pick a character to learn because of the color of their outfit or the type of shoe they're wearing instead of the moves they actually do. In short, they've spent lots of time playing lots of fighting games and are going to choose whatever character they want for whatever reason they want, and the hell with how hard the character is to learn, despite being 'new' VF players. The biggest problem they may have is that they pick a character completely unsuited to their playing style.

Then there's Type B. These are the 'new' VF players who have never or rarely faced an opponent across a joystick in a fighting game, and who lack the above basic skills. Blocking, dodging, the difference between a chain, a rush, and a combo, frame advantages, move flows - all of these are most likely new concepts to these people. They have a tendancy to slap all the buttons madly, their tongue protuding between their teeth, cursing, occasionally yelling things like 'Take that you ____' and going into Special Olympic-esque celebrations because they've made it to the third fight. They rarely guard, and wonder why Lei Fei keeps hitting them through their attacks or Aoi grabs them in mid move and breaks their arm.

These are the players that I think most of the people in the thread are talking about when they say a 'new' VF player should pick Lau, Sarah, or Jacky to start, since those characters don't have the potential to be as confusing as a Shun or a Lei Fei. Type A 'new' veterans can prosper with anyone. Type B 'new' players may get frustrated if they pick a complex character at first.

 

Re: Rant mode on. Swe lost hockey = damn.

Yeah, I sort of agree with maddy, my first character in vf4 and evo was Aoi and I have to admit that for a long time I didn't bother with throw escapes. It wasn't until I picked up wolf again (after playing him in vf2) and also goh that I started really working on my throw escapes etc.

 

Re: Rant mode on. Swe lost hockey = damn.

Yeah, imho, Aoi is just about the worst character to learn the game with. My first VF was VF4 ver C, and I chose Aoi because her style drew my attention, plus, I thought she was hot /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif . Yah, she's got elbows and pppks and the like, but her frame stats are kinda weird, and for the longest time, I never really did ETEs, a fundamental of the game. Rather, for better or worse, I did RTEs. Oy vey. And you really can't play anybody like you can Aoi, imho. Her style of guard cancels, reversals, etc., is rather unique, imho.

Imho, Wolf and Goh are the easiest characters to pick up- probably because I'm from a grappler background in the SF2 days. But I found those two easier to pick up than Pai, Jacky and the like. Wolf/Goh have pretty easy commands, and they can capitalize on a few situations pretty well, and with fairly straight forward strategies, and no complex stances, etc. I've never really seriously tried Jeff, so I wouldn't know much about him regarding.

 

Re: Rant mode on. Swe lost hockey = damn.

Hey what about Brad!!?? Something tells me im about to get flamed...lol

 

Re: Rant mode on. Swe lost hockey = damn.

I've never thought about it, but now that you mention it, this is so true! My main character has been always Vanessa since I first tried the game in (ehh right after vf4 got on the PS2). I played a couple of matches, and went straight to the store and bought it. As i'm working to become better and ultimately win a Nordic turnament, I have always thought Vanessa has been kind of difficult to play. I never botheredd to change my main character because of my (for me, at least) huge knowledge about Vanessa.
Bottom line: Why wasn't what Maddy said, printed on the Evo box /versus/images/graemlins/frown.gif

m(_ _)m

 

Re: Rant mode on. Swe lost hockey = damn.

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Shaolin_Hopper said:

These 'new' players can start out with a Shun, an Akira, Aoi, Lei Fei, Wolf, or nearly anyone, because they're not going to be intimidated at the challenge posed by learning both the character and the game. That's not to say that they'll be expert VF players from the very start or be able to walk through the game - but they won't be wondering which button will activate the Level 3 Supermove, either. True, they'd most likely progress faster with a 'simpler' character such as Lau or Jacky. But these type of players are also known to pick a character to learn because of the color of their outfit or the type of shoe they're wearing instead of the moves they actually do. In short, they've spent lots of time playing lots of fighting games and are going to choose whatever character they want for whatever reason they want, and the hell with how hard the character is to learn, despite being 'new' VF players. The biggest problem they may have is that they pick a character completely unsuited to their playing style.


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I must say that´s an excellent point. Being a (very) new VF 4 player (which is why I checked this post first )I find this to be very true. I´ve managed to "master" (if there is such a thing) or rather reach the peak of my ability with 3 characters in SC2, before that I´ve done the same in Tekken 3. I´m not saying I´ll ever be any kind of world champ material, but I´m still not beaten by anyone I´ve played (some of them were pretty good, others not of course). So I have some experience and I´m not overwhelmed by the technicality of VF 4.

So, I started with Lei, but I soon found out that he is a character with a lot of stances (which I hugely enjoy playing around with in all fighting games /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) and thus rather unconventional and probably not a very good character to start out with while you are learning the basic game mechanics. Incidentally I´ve found Lau AND Jacky to be this, (btw I haven´t tried all the chars yet, I quickly bypass the big boxing/wrestling type chars because I hate those, my pref) Lau has what one alt stance with 3 or 4 attack options from that, Jacky has one or two "prep" stances, I would call that decent stuff to start with. Because from what I´ve seen from the tutorials (ahh, they annoy me but are extremely useful seriously) I need to learn all the techniques (some more or less familiar) of evading, counterattacking and such and this is a bit hard to do with a character like Lei who has 5 stances and none of them let him do most of the basic sidestepping and stuff.

Just my two cents

PS. despite the arguing this post has been most informative /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

Just say no to Brad.

I think Brad's a wonderful (albeit flawed) character, and a lot of fun to play... but he's NOT for beginners. Thing is, he's got an annoying tendency to confuse the hell out of people not used to G-clearing the input buffer.. In other words.. Wanna try an elbow -> elbow flow chart with Brad? After the first elbow, the second you hit forward, he slips into ducking stance.. same thing can happen if you try to evade after a move that'll go into side slips.. He's a good character to pick up eventually, but I really think he's confusing for newbies.. it's kinda like Maxi in SC.. half the time you end up in stances you didn't mean to enter unless you know exactly what you're doing.

I actually think the best character to learn with is probably Jeffry, not because he's effective for newbies (he's not), but because he can do pretty well everything... He's good to teach low throws and setting up forced-choice situations, AND because he's so slow he forces the user to learn the defensive side of VF as well (where someone like Pai or Aoi, who has tons of safe moves, can be more of a bulldog). That said, Jeff is a tough character to use against better competition. Sarah/Jacky/Lau are other good choices..

And y'know, I really don't think Akira's a complex character. His move inputs can be difficult, but when it comes down to actual strategy he's about as straightforward as it gets..

 

Re: Just say no to Brad.

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And y'know, I really don't think Akira's a complex character. His move inputs can be difficult, but when it comes down to actual strategy he's about as straightforward as it gets..


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His strategy is the issue. Everyone knows you're going to be slamming out straight forward as hard as you can, usually with a mid attack. Your opponent pretty much 'knows' what you're going to do. It's bad when you're facing someone who knows what you're going to do. He is exceptional at what he does - linear attacks and harsh damage from the smallest mistakes. But he's a very focused character - lots of mid attacks, not many low attacks, and almost no spinning moves. That severely limits options. You can't use a spinning move to stop sidesteps. Your low attacks are extremely limited, and that means you have to use other ways to overcome a high guard.

You need skill with him to overcome what he is lacking.

Akira's arsenal of moves is badly crippled in certain areas - namely spinning moves to counter sidesteps, and lots of high/low guessing games. If you're not good at stuttering your attack (to prevent counters, screw up your opponent's timing, to bait counters, and to catch sidesteps), keeping the heat on without missing moves (nothing worse than getting stuck tossing out a slow mixup move which eats a counter instead of the fast attack YOU wanted to throw out which would have been a counter in YOUR favor ), AND throw/strike mixups (to overcome high guard - Akira lives on the 'mid attack plane' ), you're going to be horribly owned. A truly 'new' player isn't going to be able to fall back on a chain with Akira to buy a second or two to get refocused, when panicking, or to plan his next move. If you're not able to 'flow' with Akira, if you're not skilled at all three of the above fighting 'disciplines', you're going to find yourself on the defensive very fast, and defensive is bad no matter which character you are.

 

Re: Just say no to Brad.

I'm actually noticing that. After toying around with Wolf and a on-again-off-again fling with Sarah, I've found my original VF 1-3 choice to be the best character for learning the ins and outs. Playing Jeffry isn't EASY, but it's about as simple as it gets, and it definetly teaches you not to just jump in and start swinging. LOL Good lessons for later.

 

Re: Just say no to Brad.

Heh, it turns out Shaolin_hopper was more than right about character choice. I went back to Lei, after testing all the character, simply because he is THE coolest character in the game in my opinion. And also because we share hobbies /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif . And I now find that his stances in no way inhibit me from learning the basic moves in the game as well as I´m getting better with him.

Had an awesome session with a friend yesterday and Lei going from stance to stance, initially he was like: WTF !?!?!? and I completely smashed him because of unpredictability. Then he started seeing my patterns and countering them effectively so I was forced to improvise. At one point I was in such a groove that I was improvising subconciously and he went: WTF ? and I went WTF ? at the same time. Awesome character /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

And what an awesome game by the way, this is my first taste of VF (except a short affair with VF2 in the arcades) and I see what I´ve been missing.

 

Re: Just say no to Brad.

welcome back to the fold.

 

Re: Just say no to Brad.

The biggest problem I had with learning Lei was that i neglected my sidestepping skills, since he's locked in place so easily. I'm slowly improving there, but it was a rough stretch at one point. I think I gained and lost Warrior status with him about fifteen times. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I'm also working on my second problem - since I'm new to VF, I'm still unfamiliar with many of the hit properties of the chains and moves. You usually can't really look at character's chain and say 'oh, that's a high-high-mid-high' chain unless you've gone and tested it - the distinction between high and mid isn't as clear cut as it is in many other games.

The third biggest problem was learning his spacing, but that's a problem with any character, not just Lei Fei. And the fourth was learning what moves not to do, which again is common among all characters in any fighting game.

 

Re: Just say no to Brad.

Kage is the best character to start with.

 

Re: Just say no to Brad.

Necralis, that is the most enlightened reply to this thread so far /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

It´s like saying: chocolate ice cream is SUPERIOR to strawberry ice cream.