What defines "cheap"??

Re: What defines

But even when you throw soften in ST you still take a small amount of damage. I belive you couldt tech multi hit throws such as Gief's head crush, Honda's hug, Yoga Noogie, T.Hawk's choke etc. They are not cheap it what you get for letting your opponent get that close.

 

Re: What defines

Oh right...I was mostly thinking of Hyper Fighting when I wrote that. These days you have parries, easy wake up moves, alpha counters and what not so it's not much of an issue.

 

Re: What defines

Well, you know very well about how I feel the SPD is unfair due to the fact it is practically guaranteed damage. And yes, in the earlier Street Fighters throwing was considered cheap. Mostly because it was nearly guaranteed damage even if the opponent sees it coming.

 

Re: What defines

You could always jump out of throws if you saw them coming early enough. I never considered it cheap it's just a tool although a very effective tool. I agree the early SPD is on the border of cheapness hey look Gief can combo his throw weeee. Hey what time are you going to the center tonight?

 

Re: What defines

It really isn't the throw itself that is cheap, it's the tick throw where the block animation holds you to the ground where you can't jump in time and in street fighter/mortal kombat you can throw people out of attacks if timed correctly. Basically when there is no defense. Like for an example, when knocked down with a character that has no get up anti-air move, Sausage Man (Zangief) does cross-up body splash (blocked), jab, jab, jab, Super Spinning Sausage Driver. As far as I know, there isn't a defense for it. If you take the hit, he can do the 5 hit knockdown combo instead, leaving you in the same predicament again.

I was thinking of going up to FFC at about 8ish, unless old Omaha Jeffrey asks me to come up earlier. I think I talked Jason into coming up and playing for a bit also.

 

Re: What defines

While I'm on the "throws aren't cheap" side of things, you can't jump out of throws in SF, unless we're thinking of different situations. If Zangief does jumping d+forward, then SPD you can't just hold up on the stick and get out of it.... well anyway, who cares, it's a VF board.

I'm with whatsisname - abusing a bug that guarantees victory is the closest you can come to a definition of cheap. You might as well steal the other guy's wallet, or smack his joystick, or turn off the machine.

 

Re: What defines

It really isn't the throw itself that is cheap, it's the tick throw where the block animation holds you to the ground where you can't jump in time and in street fighter/mortal kombat you can throw people out of attacks if timed correctly. Basically when there is no defense.

There has always been a defense to this - you can time any special attack (one with instant execution and high priority) to beat this. For example when Zangief makes you block and then tries an SPD, you can time a dragon punch during the last frame of blockstun to knock him out of it. The reason you don't see the average scrub doing this and getting away with it is because the timing is really tough. I think it's literally only one or two frames at the end of your stun. In early SF games you can't really say for certain when you hit the magic frame, but in super turbo you will see "reversal" flash on screen, which means you did a special (actually I think any attack counts) on the exact frame you need to. These special frames only apply to three situations:
coming out of hitstun
coming out of blockstun
waking up after being knocked down.

Bleah, I wrote all that just to say that it's not totally unescapeable. My point is that it isn't cheap. There's also something to be said for not eating the move that produces blockstun in the first place. It's like these guys who say ring out is cheap, you can't do anything about it when you're blocking a PPP combo and 1/10th of an inch away from the ring edge... but you could have done something about it earlier. Ditto SPD combos, you can prevent being forced to block the splash, although in earlier SF's zan stays close to you and can repeat it after just one blocked splash while in later versions you've got AC's, high priority CC's, and the fact that zan bounces away after one SPD.

 

Re: What defines

Good see you at about eight then. He brought up the Datrick Orr B&B gief combo god I hate that thing. I still do not think its cheap but that your opinion and your entitled to it.

P.S. Block Stun owns you

 

Re: What defines

I shouldn't call tick throws cheap, because they really aren't. CreeD is correct, there is a 1 frame window to do something. Though I don't believe that certain characters have a move to do to escape the SSSD. I could be mistaken though.

As for cheap in VF4, I don't believe there is such a thing. Everything in that game has viable counters to everything else. As for ring outs, if you can't defend against them, then guess what. Yep, that will be what I'd go for. Ring out threats tend to make players panic and make mistakes. A player with a level head should be able to see one coming, and probably guess how the other player will attempt to do it.

P.S. If I remember correctly, I beat Datrick's Zangief. Block stun may own, but Guile still has way too much advantage over Zangief. (Street Fighter has never been well balanced after all.)

 

Cheap is slamming someone repetitively into a wall, doing one move, or paying 30 bucks for VF4 PS2.

 

Doing one move: If all he does is one move, either the game is badly designed or you need to try more stuff and figure out what works. (Although I have heard of one CVS2 tournament won by a Ken player doing nothing but LP shoryukens, Just Defend, and supers... of course if he's good enough to pull it off he deserves SOME credit.)

 

LOL, I had this one friend who was quite large, he would just push you away from the machine and bash your player in before you could get back - thats cheap. As far as general cheapness, I think exploiting glitches that are completely unstoppable is cheap, those are design flaws, not something that is really ment to be. Morta Kombat 2, I believe, in the initial release, you could do sub-zero's ground ice slick move over the entire board...thats cheap...but anything else, its just tactics IMHO.

 

Re: What defines

haha..the term 'screw piledriver' just evoked a really old memory...

I think this took place like hmm 13 to 14 yrs ago maybe? maybe 12yrs ago?

anyway...me n a couple of my high skool friends were at the arcade..during the world warrior days...we saw a Zang player doing to screw piledriver...but being kids...we got lazy n just called that move 'screwdriver'/versus/images/icons/laugh.gif

anyway...one of us screamed ' wah screwdriver again..god damn screwdriver always so cheap!'

the zang player next to us got up n told us
' what screwdriver, what the fuck is screwdriver why u call me screwdriver...dun make me come over n spanner ur head!'

We all broke out laughing n even up till todae...it brings a smile to my face whenever I hear someone at arcade say 'wah screwdriver gam lan hai gar!'

anyway..sorry for spamming..
where's my cat?