What else is there to learn with Lion for me?

Ok, In this tread i will try to List everything i know of so far, and i want your opinions if this is a good strat or not.
Pokes: The Butter of Lions offense, due to the nerfs no Lion player should be without these pokes.
, , , , , , , and many more. These are just some general ones.
Biggies: I call these moves "biggies" because these are the moves that you would generally want to do aside from pokes and throws.
, , , , ,
Throws:
As for throws, most of his throws except 1 (the new throw) are broken with back and foward. But here are the ones you might generally want to use to tack on some damage.
works like a charm some times
watch out for the throw escape here
HCB+ still a great throw anytime you have a good advantage
FC due to the nerf, i dont think too many people might be afraid of this, but its still a good throw non the less.
HCF+ a chibita favorite, it does some nice damage and the input isnt so hard. Try to use this one often.
ya might want to use this one in oki situations, but i dont think you should get to pissed over the additions.
Flowcharts: Heres where i might have the most trouble, cause im kinda new to makin flowcharts, but i want some advice on what i have so far.
d+p flowchart:
If is blocked, reverse cd into a .
If is a normal hit, buffer into a stand and
If is a counter hit, , FC (be careful) or FC .
flowchart:
If is blocked, throw or
If is counter hit, finish the rest of the combo, throw, or
If is normal hit, throw(be cautious to counters) or
Im gonna finish up here, and try to post more tomorrow cause its gettin late. Last one for the Night! /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif
flowchart:
If is blocked, backdash and , , or (I've seen chibita use this a lot, you can also do this with . watch out though!)
If is counter, than continue the canned combo, , or .
If staggers, dash up and throw, , continue the canned combo, or another elbow to rub it in.
If is a normal hit, , or ,
If you have any comments please feel free to post. I hope if this is actually good, than it can help some other lion players get going. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

Learn to do df+P+K eye poke stuff maybe? I know it's a free throw on MC and possibly b,b+K combos will hit too.

learn all the options after b,f+K+G /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif Lion actually has some cool stuff from there, tho you rarely see lion players throw it out in the open.

You don't list the FC uppercut in your "biggies" but I bet you knew about it and just forgot to list it.

Learn to toast people with that catch throw /versus/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

Watch Chibita in person and youll realize u know nothing about playing Lion. Thats exactly how i feel... /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

Guess that's not exactly what nnabuenyi needed to hear /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif It's a good list, you can add + to your throw section for situations when you're in danger of RO. If you have time to use this one, you'll probably RO your opponent.

 

I should have added, But be sure to note people that
people might not fly for this one often because of the reduced guessing game. Use with caution!
As for , I will list the flowchart here:
If is blocked, delay the followup, or to get away.
If is a counter, either continue with the and follow that with a back turned , or try to continue with a
If is a normal hit, proceed with counter guessing game.
Throw Analysis:
a good throw for ring outs, does good damage, watchout for throw escapes.
flowchart:
If is blocked, throw or delay the rest of the input.
If is a counter hit, throw or use to tack on some more damage.
If is a normal hit, delay the rest of the command and hope for a counter, stop in the middle and use , or throw in the middle.
OKIZEME: This is THE thing to know with lion, in fact any character to be effective has to keep the downed opponent pressured.
For TRs and QR:
ahh this baby works wonders for those techrolling fiends. If your opponent gets wise to escaping this, do the part and combo as needed.


As far as these 3 go, there are the big 3 of your oki game. With these 3 moves alone I've seen chibita continuously down opponents to critical health just by variating it a bit and repeating these. This is a killer mixup waiting to be abused, but make sure you mix it up a bit.
this move is quite underestimated, but its a great move in oki situations. I've heard if the first hit is a success, the second hit may be free, but im not sure about that.
for your People that stay down.
against high rising:
is THE move to counter this situation. ducks right under the attack, and if it hits fully charged, your opponent is in deep trouble.
backdash a bit and . I've seen chibita use this one, but you gotta make sure the kick whiffs first, then unleash the hit.
Against low:
will hop right over the attack, and counter with your own. brilliant.
Against BOTH:
WHAT!?!?! theres a weapon that secures your rising attack safety?!?! Yes its true, I've seen chibita and some other japan lion players use this weapon to their advantage.
, then when the opponent starts the rising attack animation, It hops right over their attacks and leaves you at a great advantage. The timing is kinda tough but you should get the hang of it eventually.

 

Just watch more chibita's clips!
Because he can do somebody never to think about things.
like always do +

 

[ QUOTE ]
Ogi said:

Just watch more chibita's clips!
Because he can do somebody never to think about things.
like always do +

[/ QUOTE ]
?????? /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

so is this strat pretty solid?

 

dunno, do we have any really good lion players on this board? The only one I know for sure is pretty competent is jjcha, who's in japan now and doesn't do much VFing anymore I think. Florida's The_Dude plays a nice lion too. Adam's lion is famous but it's not like he's going to share any info.

BLATANT TROLLING!
/versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

What was it? You got up after playing NeoTower, I asked how was it... and you said... "Oh, that's how you're supposed to play Jacky..." /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

Um, Huh?

 

Lion's the only non-punching character in the game. Yeah, that's right, he uses his fingers, not his FIST per say. This makes him really special and fast.

Lion's moves are mostly (note: mostly) fast. You have a lot of follow-ups for most of his moves.


For example, the ++:
Guaranteed after each hit
(MC) ++(buff.)->Various combos depending on the opponent's weight.
+ ++ after ++(buff.) seems to work pretty fine on LWs and MW in Open Stance, not sure though, it's relative.

+ is a really nice move too:
+ (small delay before entering) and +
Note: Both + and + are buffered into the other commands. So just right after you enter + Start pressing (which turns into ) and press a little while later and then do the same thing with the + part into the +'s animation.
Note2: this works on every foot position except for heavyweights and Akira. For those characters use this on Open Stance.

For HW and Akira on Closed Stance after +, follow with ++.

+'s the move I use most. The are many follow-ups for this move and these are my favorite also shown in the Tactics Advice:
LW and MW: ++(buff.) ++ for neat damage. It's easy to execute altough the last not always hits (Depends on foot positioning).
LW, MW, and HW/Akira for Open stance:++ + (i'm not quite sure about this one).
HW/Akira for Closed stance: ++ (requires really fast input, without wasting a single frame) and then ++ (fast input again).

++ Both fully and not fully charged follow-up: +
Note: On full charge=Really big damage

+ Follow-Ups:
+ (down attack). It's guaranteed.
++ Not as damaging as the above one, but you can attack the opponent on recovering.

+ Follow-Up:
+ (I always use the same)
Note: You can attack the opponent on their way up (recovering).

++ Follow-ups:
+ (piece of cake)
or you can just do a really hard one (LW only): (small dash buffered into the end of +) + + (small dash buffered into + followed by + and never let the stick go from to neutral and then + because that way it won't work).
Note: this last follow-up allows for recover disrupting.

++ Follow-ups:
+ on HW
and my favorite one: (buffered right before Lion lands his feet) + ++ on LW and MW.

++ Follow-ups:
+ Due to the last hit of ++ having the same effect as ++.



PS: I'll post some more info on Lion later. Stay cool, and keep practising in Free Mode (look into command list and press X button to look at the combo list for some moves).

 

I think my play is beginning to get better with lion. I can now trash my cousin in vf4 now because i mix up my pokes and punish his mistakes with a combo or throw. For me, on my watching of lion videos i've come up with 3 strategies. Comments are appreciated.

Defensive:
This style is more geared toward machi than anything. Basically this style is to counter aggressive opponents. Use your pokes to counter their attacks and throw or combo if they mess up. I have seen chibita handle some people in this fashion.
Moves good for this style:








Basic:
This is the style you will use most of the time when you dont know how the opponent acts. Its kind of like the Defensive style, but instead of reacting to the opponents attacks, you start to generate some of your own offense with pokes and throws. The point of this style is to aggravate your opponent and force them to make careless mistakes so you can punish as needed.
Moves for this style:








FC



Aggressive:
RAWR!! This is a very explosive style always active, and rarely stopping to defend. This is a style when you know youre opponent is going to start turtling so you just go off on them. Ive seen chibita gain many excellents using this style, and If you have watched the chibita vs rarita matches, you know what i mean. This style is all about combos and throws.
Moves for this style:
FC










Please comment on this post.

 

I don't want to look rude, but that's pretty non-sense..Do not group commands. You're looking childish m8.

Instead of grouping moves and excluding others, memorize every move, go to Free training, put the enemy in 5 skill move with everything in random (throw escapes, recovery, etc.) and choose Sarah as ur opponnent. After 30 minutes of fighting her, if you feel you're ready, pass on to Jacky. And then finish with Wolf. I really mean it..

This will give you sometime to practise ETE-Gs, mid-air combos, blocking, recovering, and other techniques. Lion, like every other character, has to be controlled in such a way that it's ready to block any movement, or escape every throw, if his offense fails.

I honestly think that if you insist on training and making-up styles for your lion you might get predictable. Much more than you are now..

Check this info I wrote today on another thread:
http://virtuafighter.com/versuscity/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=training&Number=84255&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1

 

Yeah i thought of it when i was going to sleep, so i guess i was thinkin with 50% effort. I think that youre right. I never thought ALL of his moves would be useful, except . Well, ok If ya say so, then you are right.

PS: What did you mean by grouping commands?

 

This is all common knowledge, but people sometimes forgot to work on these things.

1. Do you know which moves of him sober up Shun?
2 .Do you have a good wall stagger combo that's gauranteed?
3. Do you have good wall combos?
4. Do you know his stance speficic combos, and his most damaging combos in the game?
5. Do you know how to break certain throws, like Aoi's mutlipart throw, or Vanessas take down into punches, or Wolf's evade+throw?
6. Do you know good backstagger combos and know when to punish people for techrolling at the wrong time?
7. Do you know when and what situating you can evade a rising kick and punish someone for doing it at the wrong time?
8. Do you know the different combos that only work on certain lighter or heavier characters?

There's always something new to learn. No one is beyond learning anything new. I've been playing Lion since VF2, and I still don't know and remember all the the things I really should know by now. Some in the list above. And this is just a small list, there's a ton more stuff you can work on. I need to take my own advice and practice too. There's a lot I still need to learn about Lion. Like frames and remembering the best combos for each floater. And how to deal with certain things like Sarah's Flamingo Kick, or knowing all the throw guaranteed moves in the game.

Also, have you worked on the minami step? Lion looks pretty cool when you mix the minami step with his , and his and +

 

Yeah Im workin on the fundamentals now. Such as trying to evade into the FC throw, Buffering the crouch for the uppercut at all given times, and working on some oki pressure. Also Im working on my evading and fuzzy guarding.
When are the handplant kicks() best used?
Also, When is the hopkick () Best used?
I have gotten used to the after it, and i want to know when i should use those moves.

 

Fuzzy guarding is a very nice technique that you practise in challenge and it's useful for every vf player.

Try practising moves so that you may interrupt them if they are blocked and continue them if they MC and/or land on normal hit (or vice-versa)

+ leaves you a large disavantage if it's blocked, so you better use it when you're sure your opponent's going to use high attacks, because they'll miss. I only use this move to attack the opponents on TR or QR with a ++ or ++

+ and + are really REALLY powerful moves. Not only can you start a combo with + on MC and use ++ + (I don't remember in which characters it works), but it's a useful move for mid-air combos, and perfect to interrupt rising attacks. Use + if you opponent blocks the first hit (because the second will push them farther so they won't be able to throw you) or if it does a normal hit.

++ is absolutly amazing for long-range attacks, because against the AI, if you back dash a lot, they come running or dashing towards you, and you may hit them. It doesn't leave you a large advantage, but that's good for guessing games.

For long-range attacks + is really good, but if you're in close range, and for some reason you just did a + and you want to do a +, then do a quick dash to execute it from a standing position. This is because +'s a slower move and leaves you at a much bigger disavantage if your opponent blocks the first . With + after you see the first punch being blocked you can for a single punch in standing position interrupting the opponent's counter-attack.

If you're having trouble against fast opponents wait for a guaranteed hit move, use + and back dash to get away from your opponnent, then you may continue using long-range attacks.

PS:Lion's a perfect character for attack recovering opponents.

 

Im getting extremely good with lion now. I can evade into my powerful throws, quickly cd into an uppercut, and my moves are unpredictable. Its just those darn double and triple throw escapes that i dont get. Also I have a question about the combo.
Do you press then to buffer than ?
Or do you press

 

you actually are always pressing buffered since +'s animation. You input a slightly delayed and follow with trying not to get a instead of a ,.