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What exactly makes a VF character safe?

Discussion in 'General' started by HotSauceNelly, Mar 29, 2022.

  1. HotSauceNelly

    HotSauceNelly Well-Known Member

    So...last night I'm playing versus one of the best Pai players in the business! Mr @Rodnutz himself! At around game 40 or so I said to myself: "God Damn...Pai is so safe! WTF!?!"
    Afterwards I thought: "Well...is it the character that's safe or the style of the player using the character?" What are the margins and nuances that determine how safe a VF character is?
    I'd like to believe that the answers are more objective than subjective. However, if I were to for example say that Vanessa is far from safe compared to Jean, I'm sure someone in the community would strongly disagree. To that particular person I would say *cough 66P cough* :LOL:
     
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  2. mohamed_amervf5

    mohamed_amervf5 Active Member

    What exactly makes a VF character safe?

    when he doesnot face you.

    the real answer is surely not about the charac it is about the moves he uses and the timing of it , so making safe moves or unsafe moves determine it , all charach can be very safe or very unsafe depending on the player who uses them
     
  3. Dark Nova Void

    Dark Nova Void Well-Known Member

    You are correct Pai is very safe. You can definitely block punish her very well but if I am correct the strength of Pai is she just like Akira, Jean, and a few more characters I believe is these characters can hover from -1 to -5 in a lot of situations which allows them to use many defensive options like fuzzy, ecd, reversal, parry, crush, and reversals. Not every character can do this I know Sarah can't do this, Vanessa can be safe when you use DS but I still think she still more at risk compared to what I said above. I do think how safe a character is reliant on a player to a degree but that my point of view.
     
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  4. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    Like others have posted, I think the most important factor on what makes a character safe is how the player chooses to play that character.

    A long time ago, I did survey all the strikes of the characters (from the previous FS command list files) and sort them by their frame properties. Looking at it now, it hurts my eyes -_-;;


    VFDCsafethread.png
     
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  5. HotSauceNelly

    HotSauceNelly Well-Known Member

    Jeez! Quite extensive! Lol!
     
  6. mohamed_amervf5

    mohamed_amervf5 Active Member

    my friend , you donot need long articles for this or you are looking for a useless comment from masterpo , we told you the things its all about AND Yes this abridgement is very useful.
     
  7. TexasLion

    TexasLion Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    JunoSynth
    There's a Japanese Lei Fei player that is really good but I noticed he plays a really safe game with Lei Fei and it looks really frustrating to beat lol. I suppose different characters can play a safer game then others depending on their moves and usefulness of them, but its definitely a tough style to beat and figure out since they hardly leave themselves open to big combos.
     
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  8. beanboy

    beanboy Well-Known Member

    Interestingly, Pai's attacks have openings though. But she is so fast, that most of the time, people get intimidated by her speed, and decide to block her attacks, and not attack through them.
     
    ToyDingo, Chanchai and HotSauceNelly like this.
  9. Uh.. if I read that chart right Vanessa has the least disadvantage when blocked and at same time most advantage when opponent has blocked. Hmph.
    @HotSauceNelly , @akai: (original post edited).
    RE.: chart info-- I understand better now, thank you.
    Safe characters give you more moves you can miss with & still come out faster w/ a counter move or spam a move that isn't counterable.
    Like you're picking Akuma in SSF2T.
    I play Jacky & Sara a lot... they're kinda 50/50. Makes sense.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2022
    HotSauceNelly likes this.
  10. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    Vanessa has 47 strikes (entries in the command lists) that when guarded, leaves Vanessa at -1 to -5. Vanessa has 21 other strikes (entries in the command lists) that when guarded, leaves her at frame advantage or staggers opponent. Whether looking at number of moves or percentage, there are other characters that leads in those categories.
     
    HotSauceNelly likes this.
  11. HotSauceNelly

    HotSauceNelly Well-Known Member

    Interesting! Looking at this chart brings into perspective how numbers don't always tell the entire story. For example: Vanessa has K+G in Offensive Stance which does give you plus frames (4) on guard. Tragically for me, it executes in 37 frames. Slow as all hell! But I suppose depending on how you look at it one could consider it safe.
     
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  12. akai

    akai Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    Akai_JC
    XBL:
    Akai JC
    Yup, I agree! Be wary on coming up with big conclusions/interpretations from the data. The survey posted above also does not take into consideration stances, speed, distance, etc...only the frame data in the Guard column.

    I do think many questions can be answered in a objective quantifiable way if "framed" appropriately.

    But with that stated, I still think the number one factor for a character being "safe" is dependent on the player.
     

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