What I've learned so far using Lei-Fei

Discussion in 'Lei' started by SwordSainte, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. SwordSainte

    SwordSainte Member


    (I did not expect this to be as big as it ended up being when I started. I originally had planned this to just be a quick post about some of the things I've been learning while training with this character. But after putting down all the stuff I've picked up via reading and talking to other players, as well as the stuff I figured out from practice and playing other people, this ended up being like a freaking home work assignment... and I'm not even going to school anymore. Not that I minded writing this; it was actually a lot of fun. What makes me worried is that you wouldn't want to slog through it. If so, that's your prerogative. What I will say however, is that if you're a beginner like me who likes using Lei, or are a more experienced player who has no problems teaching the rest of us, then you may find this piece to be of some value, so I hope you stick around. Besides, reading's supposed to be good for you.)



    What I've learned so far using Lei-Fei (and what we beginners should know).

    First off, a big disclaimer: I am not even remotely an expert in Virtua Fighter, let alone Lei-Fei. I’ve never been to any VF tournaments, haven’t "pwned noobs" consistently online, and I’m still learning this game and the character. So don’t expect any ground breaking info here. However, with all that said, you’re probably wondering why in the hell I’m bothering to write this then. Well, as you’ve no doubt already noticed in this here sub-section, there really isn’t a whole lot of info on Lei-Fei. Sure, there's some good stuff in this very forum, like his moves, what they do, and so on. But or someone who supposedly is one that newbies love to flock to, I find that there’s hardly anything out there on beginner strategies or basics that people should learn and focus on when trying to use the guy. Plus, the poor monk is constantly maligned by many to be “low tier†(as if that means anything major in this game), or just someone that people just like to spam moves and stances without really knowing what they are supposed to be used for. Well I think the poor monk (and us beginner Lei players) have suffered enough, and it’s time for us to consolidate our knowledge and put up the basic moves and strategies we need to be working on in order to be effective players. Besides, I’ve seen the Japanese matches; the skill shown with the character over there is phenomenal, and it’s high time we started being able to exhibit the same skills. But we won’t get there until we figure out the first few steps we have to take with the character.

    Keep in mind that this is not really meant to just be a faq or move list to study off of: remember that I’m still learning this stuff myself. Rather, this is also going to be sort of a journal of sorts, a kind of “what I learned so far while playing with Lei†type thing. I’m doing this way for a couple of reasons: one, so that the reader (and myself) can see the mistakes we’ve made along the way and see growth and improvement as time goes on, and two, so that more experienced players can come in and add their own information here to teach the rest of us what the do. I’m hoping it becomes something of a “public notebook†on Lei, it’s just that I’m writing the first couple of pages. We’ll see how this experiment goes.

    (by the way, I’m going to assume that you already have at the very least gotten yourself acquainted with the basics of VF and are practicing them, and that you’ve at least read the other threads in this sub-forum, particularly the invaluable VF5 FS Move List Notes that Noodalls wrote. You kind of need to have that under your belt for this to be of any value to you… assuming this actually has any value. The experts will let me know, I’m sure.)


    Ok, now that that’s out the way...



    So here we go, just getting started with the game, and already picked out our favorite wayward lohan for whatever reason, and after going through the command tutorial and practiced the moves a few times, you jump online to take on the chumps you think you have a chance against… and get your ass kicked so hard it’s been rode to Jerusalem so the rider can die for your sins (chief among them sucking at this game). Even though I was wise enough to at least spend a day training in tutorial mode and working on basic defense, this was still my experience when I first went online. So what are we doing wrong?

    Well for one thing, we didn't have a game plan. We didn't really understand what was behind the design of this character. We didn't really understand what we're actually supposed to be doing with this character. And we didn't fully understand how to utilize the tools he has.

    So if we want to start winning with this guy, we need to rectify those things, and figure out what the hell he's all about and how to take advantage of that. And the first thing we need to know is what our tools are. There are actually quite a bit of good moves he has, but I'll just focus on the ones that I've found beneficial and/or noteworthy so far.


    Basic offensive tools:

    P:
    Ah, good old P; the jab. It’s the most basic tool in every VF character’s arsenal, and it’s the same for Lei. Unfortunately, unlike many other characters, the attack string it starts (PPP) is not really something that suits how he's supposed to be played. See, punch strings like this usually go great with characters like, say Lau, Pai, and Jacky, because the rest of their move's list goes along with this quick, easily accessible set of rush down attacks. Lei however, isn't built that way. He's made to keep people off balance with sudden powerful change ups, transitions, and attacks to people's openings. And P,P,P simply doesn't help him with this, at least not from what I've experienced so far. Worse, it can actually enforce bad habits, like trying to spam/button mash attacks. Sure, you got that nice mid hit at the end, but you aren't really going to find many good players getting hit with it. And it can be punished by someone who's alert, especially if this is your main attack. Which it shouldn't be.

    So what you should be using P for is a defense check: pop a couple at close range to see if the guy blocks (when you have the opening to of course; it’s not like they’re just going to stand there.) If the guy keeps blocking, throw 'im, if they get hit, toss out a stronger attack before they recover. This is pretty much VF 101, and you need to know how to do this stuff before you learn anything else with Lei.

    You can also every now and then toss out PP, and then make a quick sidestep to hopefully avoid any quick counters your opponent tosses out… assuming of course that he WILL be countering, AND it’s not with a circular attack. How you’ll know that is by watching how the guy plays and working off that, which is something that will come to you only with experience and a lot of lost matches. So for now, rely on P only as a defense check, and (of course) something to throw in combos.

    2P:
    Come on, you should know what this is used for: if not, stop reading this right now and go back to VF 101 (ie, grind tutorial mode). All I have to say about it is that you need to use this as a COUNTER; that is, you time it for an attack you know is coming. Don’t, DON'T, DON’T spam it. You will lose matches because of that. You will hate yourself for it. And other players will hate you even more. Don’t spam this move. Please.

    6P:
    This move should be one of your best friends. I can’t express enough how important this attack is to Lei game, it can open up a whole lot of options for you, and you will find yourself starting to win matches if you use it correctly.

    First off, 6P is safe on BLOCK. That means you shouldn’t worry too much about being punished as long as you aren’t being predictable with it. If you hit with it, you can follow up with p to complete the attack series, and then follow through with another quick attack (like a poking low), or maybe be a bit risky and go for a quick pop up if you think you can do it. Plus, you get a frame advantage if you hit them while they’re crouching (keep in mind this does hit mid), so that gives you more time to pop off another quick hit. If they block (or you want another option), that leads to the second part…

    6P can go right into Lei’s Kyo stance, probably the best stance he has for applying pressure to your opponent. I’ll get into that and his other stances later, but for now, know that by doing low forward p into p+k+g, you go right into a stance that has some really fast attacks to harass the other guy with, PLUS it gives you extra frame advantage just going into the stance! And if you did this after an offensive sidestep, it can really mess a guy up… but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Just get to practicing low forward P into Kyo stance over and over from a variety of situations until it becomes second nature; it is a very valuable tool to use.

    Also, this move beats out evades, so if you’re up against a guy who’s good at evading around you, you’re going to want to be doing this one.

    3P:
    This is your second best friend if you plan on using Lei seriously. Just like the last move, it can also go into the Kyo stance, opening up the pressure options that stance can give you. And just like the last move, it hits mid, so you can catch crouchers with it. Alternating between this and your other pokes can help diversify your game, plus you’ll find that it and the move that comes after it (p) works nice in some combos.

    K:
    Yeah, just K. No really, it’s actually fairly useful. For one thing, it comes out fairly fast, so you can punish slow recovering moves with it. Second, on hit, you can just press 2 to instantly go into Buktai (again, we’ll talk about the stances later) and then get off the following combo on Lights to heavy mids: 3K, 3PP, 2K. Not a bad punish combo off of a simple button press, and it should be something beginners get the hang of. Learn when to pop K off as a punisher, and make sure to follow up with the Buktai combos afterwards: practice this until it becomes second nature, and try to see if you can vary the combo for any characters this doesn’t work on. Keep in mind that if they block the kick, you probably don’t want to follow up with this combo unless you’re sure they aren’t going to block that 3K off of Buktai.

    66P
    Other fighters have elbows. You have this. You should use it the same way, and pop anyone you catch sleeping on their feet. I find it makes a rather nice check at 1/4 screen range. Plus, woe betide any foe who gets hit by this and they're at a wall. Go on, see what kind of damage you can do after slamming some fool on a wall with this. It also makes a great addition in the middle of wall combos... but I'm getting ahead of myself talking about wall combos, and you are too if you're thinking about doing them right now. Just focus on the basic use of this... as a good mid hit poke to stun em.

    9P+K,P
    If you’re going up against linear fighters, you’re going to want to use this move since it evades straight attacks. You can rely on just the first hit to harass them, or pull off the full move to go into Koko stance… which is a dangerous stance to end up in if you don’t know what you’re doing. So make sure you know what you’re going to follow up with before relying on this move.

    2,6P
    I find this to be a nice one to use if I'm lucky enough to duck a high hit. Pop this one out before they recover, and wow, instant combo opportunity. It's also a nice one to pop out from time to time if you feel you're being pressured by someone and need some breathing room; on block, it pushes them back, keeping them from punishing you. So keep it at the ready in your bag of tricks.

    4P+K,P

    I love this move. There are times when people really mess up in front of me, but there are just enough distance away so that they think they're ok... and then I pop this sucker out. Bam, two slamming blows of pain. Granted, it's slow to start, and if they block, well, be prepared to lose some teeth. But if you use this one right, they'll think twice about rushing in blindly.

    236P
    Guy likes spamming punch strings, and/or is being predictable with his punch moves? Use this. I like to call this one the noob killer considering how easy it is to take out PPP spammers with it. It's also a good tool to use overall if you know a punch is coming AND know how to follow up with another attack after counter hitting with it. Just don't telegraph it, and don't overuse it.

    8K,K
    I originally wasn't going to include this one, because honestly, it is very easy to just hand the match over to the other guy if you mess this one up. But if you actually use it RIGHT, it can be a dangerous surprise for your opponent. Learn the maximum range of the first kick, and the second you see the guy flinch into it's range, pop them with it. Try not to use this move too much so that it's a surprise technique when you finally white it out. And don't do the second kick until you have them trained to think it isn't coming... THEN pop them with it. I've won several matches with that trick.

    Also keep in mind that if you just do the first kick, you'll end up in Koko stance... so you better know how to use that stance before even thinking about using this kick. More about the stances later.


    Launchers:

    These are basically your combo starters, but they also can be used to punish moves as well. There are several to get acquainted with, but for the sake of not overwhelming you, I’ll just list the four I've been working with. If you want to know the rest, well, that’s what Noodalls' piece is for. You are reading that, right??


    9K+G
    This is probably my favorite punisher, and chances are it’ll probably be yours too. A mainstay from Evo, it pops the sucker up for some quick combos. Plus, it hits mid, so it’s a good way to keep 2p spammers in check. Don’t just toss this out whenever you want though… you will pay dearly if you’re blocked.

    9K
    Another decent combo starter that can cut through slower attacks. I’ve noticed a lot of people recommending it as their quick counter launcher of choice, though I find I use 9K+G more often. Still, it’s a decent option.

    1P+G
    This one is my second favorite punishing launcher. It would be at the top of my list if it didn’t have a slow start up and a -15 frame recovery on block. But that just means you need to know when to pull this sucker out, and that time is when your opponent whiffs a big move of their own, or you block one that doesn’t stagger you, and you have enough frame advantage to use it. DON’T use it any other time, that’s pretty much just handing the round to the other guy. But once you catch the fool with it, you’re almost guaranteed at least 80 damage with a decent combo (at least with the one I’ll be listing later).

    33PP
    This is an odd one for me. Noodalls recommends this as a primary launcher for Lei players… and yet I’ve never used it that way. Maybe that’s why I’m still a beginner. But I’ve found myself using it more as a move in the middle of combos, or after 26P+G (a mainstay from playing EVO… oh, and this is a throw you should be getting yourself acquainted with… like, yesterday.). It does have good poking and float potential, so I probably should be working it more into my gameplan. If so, I suggest you don’t repeat my mistake, and learn to use it as well.


    Stances:

    Ok, this is the core of Lei-Fei’s game. You simply HAVE to know about his stances, what they can do, and how to switch between them in order to play him effectively. There is no two ways about it. If you don’t fully understand how to fully utilize his stances, you’re always going to suck with him. Period.

    Actually, considering what he is and his fighting style, this actually makes sense. Allow me a moment to divulge a little martial arts knowledge (there will be a point to this). You see, Chinese martial arts is all about stance work and how to use them in a fight… and those who use these skills don’t see stances the way the average person does. The average person thinks of stances as some kind of basic, static, defensive or offensive position that one defaults to when fighting. That’s not really how kung fu works. When it comes to Chinese martial arts, EVERYTHING is a stance. Sure, you standing in a basic defensive position with your arms protecting you and your legs slightly bent is a stance, but when you then transition into gong bu (your basic “bow and arrow†stance) while punching, that’s a stance. Throwing out a kick? Stance. Stepping into ma bu (horse stance) behind a guy’s leg in order to uproot his balance? Stance. Stances are something you fight WITH, not something you fight FROM. That’s the Chinese martial arts attitude, and it’s the attitude you should have when using Lei (see, I told you there was a point to this). I would not be surprised if the developers of this game gained some understanding of that aspect by the time Evo showed up.

    Lei’s stances are fighting tools, each with their own particular purpose, strengths and weaknesses. They have to be pulled out at the “right†times, and you have to know how to transition between them in mid fight quickly and smoothly in order to stand a good chance of winning. Yeah, I know; easier said than done. I’m still struggling with this myself (ie, beginner… though it’s frustrating that I can’t easily do in a game what I can do in real life). But it can be learned, and until you get to the point where you’re “stance dancing†so rapidly that Michael Flatley gives up his title, there are some things you can do to help you master this while playing the game, even winning matches along the way. But that hinges upon you knowing what each stance does, when to go into them… and even which ones to avoid when first starting out.

    So, let’s get to it.


    Kyo:
    I’m starting with this one, because as far as I’m concerned, this is his best offensive stance, at least when it comes to rapid mix ups and pouring on offensive pressure. Just look at all the options you have from it! You can mess with a newbie’s mind all day simply by switching between PPP2K, KK, or 2KK (and that's not all the moves you can do from this stance either). Also remember that just switching into this stance from 6P or 6P gives you extra frame advantage… you’re meant to be going on the offensive with this stance. So if you find yourself able to rain blows on your bewildered opponent like it's Black Friday, go into Kyo and mix things up. Just don’t be predicable with it; you can be punished for abusing it too much.

    Hai:
    Ah, the old standby. Hai always seemed to be a sorta Swiss army knife, defensive/countering stance to me; it’s moves seem made for various situations, and for stopping other people in mid attack. P comes out lightning quick and can stuff a lot of attacks coming in: follow up with P+G and you’ve just pushed them back, and taken off a decent amount of damage. 2K snuffs high attacks, and you can keep them guessing by switching up with K, tossing them up in the air for some free hits on their flailing flesh on the way down. I have to admit not using P+K much, but it tends to be a nice surprise to pull out from long range every now and then. Just don’t use it predictably if you want it to be an effective tool.

    Buktai:
    This is definitely a stance used for quick counters: the quick damage potential from 3K alone should make mastering using this one a priority. P is another lightning fast attack to stop incoming attacks, and 6P will knock them down, which can help give you some breathing room if you’re being pressured. Learn how to time this one to dodge high attacks and punish... I’ve gotten some nice "come from behind" wins by pulling this one out at the right time.

    Dokuritsu:
    This one seems to be a power stance to me… he has a lot of hard hitting moves from it (KK in particular comes to mind…). It’s also something of a tricky stance as well, due to the mix of high and low moves it can launch, as well as the auto punch parry it has (really comes in handy against punch spammers: learn to just pop into this just before they punch). The thing is, I’ve also found that this is a stance you really need to transition into quickly in order to get the most use out of it; it’s not as effective if you just go into it and stand there. True, you can say this about all the stances really, but I’ve found that just telegraphing this one without any real follow up or transition really screws up my game. This is a stance you want quickly get into, pop off a move (or a combo), and then be back into default before the fool knows what’s happening. If you aren’t using it that way, well… let’s just say that I follow John Kreese’s advice whenever I see another Lei just go into it with no gameplan.

    Nehan:
    If you’re going into Nehan you’d better know what the hell you’re doing. Not only can’t you block from it, but you’re back is turned. So this is not a stance to find yourself in while you’re thinking to yourself “Oh, now what?†If you’re here, you should have transitioned here on purpose, and you should already be executing the counter to whatever your opponent is currently trying to get you with. I’ve seen a lot of other Lei’s go into this, and then just attack with the moves with no rhyme, reason, or plan in mind. That’s a good way to lose the match, so if you’re understanding of the uses for this one isn’t strong, DON’T go into it in a match. Spend some more time cooking it in the lab.

    That said, understanding this stance can really help to strengthen your game. It’s got a nice built in counter for certain punches and elbows coming in, and it has another attack that goes right into another really useful (but also risky) stance that just eats up the other guy’s offense if used right. Speaking of which…


    Koko:
    This one should be used for countering, period. I’ve never been able to use it effectively for any other reason, and I don’t think it’s just because I’m a novice. They’re going for a low attack? K. Mid or High? P. It’s that simple. The trick is setting that situation up so that you don’t whiff, or worse, get sent to the stratosphere before you even have a chance to press a button.

    Sui Ra Kan:
    I have to admit not really knowing how to use this stance to its full potential, and I’m still learning its range, but after being told by someone on the Shout Box about how well they’ve been able to school other players with it, I’m training with it. It’s not an easy stance to just get into, which is another reason why I find I rarely use it. But that low kick it has is mighty useful. Same goes with that safe on block punch that you can surprise them with from mid range.


    Stance Usage:

    Ok, you’re probably thinking, "Having the info about what to do with each stance and the attacks they have is nice and all, but how the hell to use all of it?" After all, we’re supposed to be transitioning into these stances quickly in order to be effective right? So how do we do that?

    Well, the seemingly obvious answer is to keep practicing switching from stance to stance by pressing all those input variations of P+K+G and a particular direction over and over again really fast. But to be honest, that’s going to take weeks to fully master, and I’m sure you don’t want to spend weeks just doing that over and over (even though in the end, you’re going to have to at some point).

    However, you don’t really have to do that at this stage. Right now, the main thing you should focus on is what moves go into what stances, and move on from there.

    This is where we go into the one attack string that I purposefully didn’t mention at the beginning: P,2P,P. Anyone who’s played EVO should recognize this one: it’s his old PPP attack. You’re probably wondering why they decided to change the input for this, as well as why I waited until now to point this out. The answer for both questions is simple: Lei Fei is a complex character, and he was meant to be played as a complex character. In fact, he was ALWAYS meant to be viewed as a complex character (imo), with various tools to defeat foes with, utilizing fast paced mind games. He’s not really meant to just be a pick up and play sort of guy.

    Back when Evo came out, the reason why you were able to just do P,P,P, to do this particular attack string was to emphasize the fact that you were supposed to utilize his stances. But most noobs didn’t appreciate this aspect and just spammed the punch button just to hit their opponents with all kinds of random crap that even they didn’t know was coming out. A lot of guys didn’t know how to deal with that and lose, and the noob would go around thinking he was decent. (I R top playerz!) Thus, people saw Lei as a noob friendly character. But he was never meant to be, and as soon as decent players figured out how to handle all that random crap (it isn’t as random as it seems), the noobs got the beatings they deserved.

    Sega took notice of this, and in the later games changed the inputs. This was for a reason: now that this stance changing string had a 2 motion thrown in, there was more conscious effort needed to perform the move… you couldn’t easily spam it (well, not a button masher anyway). You had to consciously make the decision to press 2 on the second P, which goes along with what the developers had in mind… that you had to consciously make the decision to go into particular stances. This basically means being in complete control of your movements and attacks at all times, knowing what he was going to do… which is beyond most noobs when using him. But it shouldn’t be beyond you, if you want to use him properly.

    So with all that said, P,2P,P should be one of your main tools, and you should be able to pop it out at will, knowing what stance you want to go into in order to do the move you need for that situation. 2P will put you into Dokuritsu, and the P after it will put you in Hai, two stances that are a heavy part of Lei’s game, so you need to know when to switch to what accordingly. If you can pull this attack string off into the stance you need right after an evade, you will have a very strong offensive tool at your disposal. So I suggest practicing this like crazy any chance you get.

    Another thing to help you get used to switching stances fast is to learn how to apply Kyo stance effectively. Basically, you should be drilling the hell out of your transitions from 6P and 3P, and then launching into an attack before you fully see yourself settle into the stance. For instance, try whipping out 3P, P+K+G, P,P,P,2K in one continuous string of moves. It will take some getting use to, but after a while it will be second nature. I'm noticing that after constantly doing these transitions over and over in free practice, it's starting to be come easier to do in actual matches: I'm no longer being all mushy thumbs when trying to do it (at least, most of the time). So I suggest you do the same... just keep grinding the transitions out, over and over. Change up what you do from Kyo so that you won't be predictable in actual matches, and consciously know what move you're doing from it. Don't hesitate at first when practicing... you can worry about using pauses to bait your opponents later. Right now you're practicing to be able to pull of that sequence the second you see the opportunity, and finishing off with a move they won't expect. Popping into Kyo in the middle of an attack is a very valuable tool, and it will give you an idea of how to quickly go into stances from attacks.

    But that’s not the only thing to help you get a hang of transitioning quickly into stances to win. There’s combos…


    Combos:

    Ok, don’t expect a big combo list here. If you want that, go check out soakrates combo list... he’s got more than enough Lei combos to go around. But to be honest, if you’re a beginner (and really, if you’re reading this for help playing Lei, that’s most likely what you are.) you really shouldn’t be focusing on pulling out crazy combos. I don’t care how much damage that wall combo you’re practicing is going to do, it doesn’t’ mean a damn thing if you can’t use your basic tools effectively enough to even be in the ideal situation to do it during a match. You’re like a wild monkey trying to use an M16 carbine against a well trained marine; you might be able to do damage, but good luck killing your target. So don’t worry about combos right now; focus on your basics. You have a lot on your plate as it is.

    That said however, there ARE some combos you should learn. Not just because of being able to do damage from a successful punishing launcher, but because some of these combos will help you with understanding just how fast and smooth you need to be when it comes to shifting stances.

    The following is a combo that I figured out while grinding like crazy in free training mode. I’m not saying I’m the first person to do this combo; I’m sure other people are using it too. But I will claim to be the first to at least post about it in the context I’m doing it in, and I did figure it out on my own.

    Consider the following:

    1P+K, P2P, K,P,P,P+K

    Decent combo, does some good damage. But that’s not what I find important about it. What’s important is that you have to go through two stances in order to do it, and you have to go through them quickly and smoothly in order to get all 8 hits.

    Let's start at the beginning. You pop the joker up in the air after he whiffs a big attack. So far, so good. Immediately after you go into P,2P... which if you've been paying attention, you know puts you into Dokuritsu.

    But here's where the fun begins.

    Before you even fully see Lei get into that stance, you've already hit K,P. So it doesn't look like he's rising to go into the stance, it looks like he's rising to go into the KICK. If the opponent doesn't know Lei's moves, chances are he doesn't even know he changed stances at all. It sure doesn't look like it. And then, right after the kick, he drops down into the two hit punch attack... right into Hai stance. Ok, that's a bit more obvious. But before he can put his hands into the stance's position, you should have already hit P,P+K, which goes into two final pouch attacks and puts you right back into default... and eats up about 91 damage from the other guys health.

    All your transitions into your stances for that combo happened so fast, and so smoothly, that going into them looked more like the animations needed for the combo, instead of static stances the moves have to come out of. So not only is this a decent combo, it's training you to move through stances quickly, using the moves needed from those stances to do damage.

    In short, you should be training this combo (and others like it) not just to do it from launch, but also to train yourself to move through these stances just as quickly with regular play, getting your fingers used to the activity of moving through complex button inputs to swiftly meld from one stance into the other seamlessly while attacking your opponent

    I suggest using this combo like a drill. I personally have been drilling this combo like crazy ever since I stumbled upon it, coming up with a few variations here and there. I'm not just doing it so that I'll be able to pull it off during matches, but also so that I'll get used to going through moves and stances quick enough so that you can just barely tell that's what I'm doing. I've noticed that this is pretty much the way the Japanese players have been doing it; their stance changes are freaking invisible. that's where I want to be at, so I practice combos like this. I suggest you do to if you want to good with him. Just make sure you understand what you're training here: it's not just the combo, but the transitions you're trying to build skill in.

    ... oh and yeah, this one works pretty much on everyone at heavy mid and lighter.

    Of course, I'm sure you guys want some more "beginner level combos", so here are the few I currently rely on and train for constant use in match play:

    9K+G,P,3P,P+K+G,2KK
    9K+G,P,3PP, 2K
    9K+G,P,2P,K,K
    1P+K,P
    1P+K,P,P, 3P, P+K+G, PPP2K
    1P+K,P,P, 3P, P, 2K+G
    Bokutai, 3K, 3P,P,2K

    Have fun with these: they're simple, but they work on just about everyone (well, almost everyone... not sure about Taka...) And experiment with them, see what else you can change up and toss in. But definitely try to find combos that force you to chance stances quickly and drill the hell out of those.


    Basic tips.

    Gods, this got really long. So let me just get into some miscellaneous things I picked up while training with Lei, stuff I'm still working at and that I think will be helpful for you other novices. Hopefully you'll understand them quickly so you won't learn them the hard way like I and/or some other chumps did.


    - Slow down! I know, this seems like a contradiction to what I said earlier about transitioning quickly into stances, but the thing is, you won't be able to do that if you're frantically pressing buttons before you consciously realize what you're doing. Button mashing is the surest way to remain a scrub in the world of Virtua Fighter, and it's even doubly so where Lei is concerned; he gets no kind of lucky benefits from mashing at ALL, especially since they changed the input for his stance changing punch string. And panic-y button presses look just like regular scrubby mashing. So you need to slow down and know what buttons you're pressing when playing. Take the time to understand what each attack and move does, so you can actually put together a game plan. When learning the transitions, moves and combos, start slowly. Don't worry about not being fast enough at first: you're still learning the moves, and the speed will come once you get used to them. You try to work on speed first without fully grasping the button presses and you're just going to lose, over and over again. Do whatever it takes to calm yourself down when learning this stuff so that you won't be all frantic during matches and mess your moves up due to panicked button presses: take deep breaths, vocalize the needed rhythm of your inputs while you do it, tell yourself it's just a game, recite mantras, take some Valium... anything to get you to slow down so you can do the moves properly (ok, maybe not that last one). If it's one thing you need to use Lei effectively, it's well timed, well executed button inputs. That goes for all the characters sure, but it really sticks out with Lei. This, again, is why I recommend not relying too much on the P,P,P string he has at the beginning... if you're the mashing type in the beginning, using this move only encourages your mashing.


    - Put in the time in tutorial mode. Look, Lei is a complex character; you're simply not going to master this guy overnight. I'm finding it takes a great deal of study and practice to be really effective with him. So do yourself a favor, spend more time playing around with tutorial mode, and less time trying to smack down fools online. Yes, competitive play is important for your skills, and you do have to test out what you've been training in. But you haven't been doing the proper training to begin with, there's nothing for you to test. It's just you flailing your digital limbs against someone who either is going to beat you down with contempt and ease, or is just inept as you are and so both of you learn nothing. As Stragegist told me before when I asked him for some tips, you're simply going to have to spend a long time in the lab training your ass off until you get a firm grasp of what Lei has to offer. I'm not saying don't do vs at all... just realize that at this beginning stage, it should be the amount of time you spend the LEAST when booting the game up. Besides, you're playing a Shaolin monk; you should know that you need to go through all 36 Chambers before going out into the world to dominate.


    - Stay the HELL out of ranked mode! After what I just said this should go without saying. But I'm saying it anyway. Stay. The. HELL. out of ranked mode. I'm serious. You are not ready, believe me.

    Look, I'm doing you a favor. I know that people are saying that there are a whole bunch of crappy players in ranked right now, and that it's easy to get to Hunter. But the guys who are saying that? They're Pros. And you're not a pro. You're not an intermediate. You're a beginner. You're Daniel-san before he started training with Myagi. You're Jason Tripitikas following Lu Yan around. You have no Kung Fu. NONE.

    Stay the hell out of ranked mode. Seriously.

    It's US they're talking about whey they talk about easy prey. I made the mistake of going in there after hearing over and over again about the "easy" competition to be found. Yeah, I found a few scrubs. And I was also hunted down and destroyed by people several levels above me, people who's skills slammed me to the ground like Pai Mei against... well anybody (I was going to say The Bride, but really, if you've seen all the movies this characters been in, you'd realize that people just aren't in that old man's league. He's what I want to be when I grow up). One guy in particular I will never forget; I now have a phobia of Lion's wearing top hats, and I still wake up in cold sweats from that beating. You don't want this to happen to you.

    Stay the hell out of ranked mode.[/size] Train up first. It's for your own good.


    - Beat on the AI. The CPU selections in Free Training are there for a reason. Use them. All those combos and transitions you've been training in, they mean nothing if you can't use them against a resisting target. So put that CPU to at least Level 3 and have at it. Make sure when you're fighting this thing that you train specific things. Don't just swing at it; work those strategies. Use the transitions. Make sure you do that same combo over and over again while fighting. It's the best way to make sure you will have a good chance of doing this stuff flawlessly in actual human to human play. I've seen the difference even spending half an hour doing that can make before a match.

    Also, while you're at it, I suggest at the beginning to fight mostly against Jacky, Jean, Pai, Jeffry, Lion, and Wolf. There's a reason for this: those five have great tools to make Lei pay a deductible in his health insurance policy (good attack strings, crazy high/low mix ups... Lion...), and they also happen to be some of the more popular characters you'll face in VF. If you find that you are able to handle what the AI can throw at you while fighting against these characters, you should then have a good foundation to face down human opponents. Now, I'm not saying you'll handle anything your real competition will throw at you, but you'll at least be prepared, and you'll have an idea of what to do against a variety of techniques and situations.


    - Communicate. Besides training, this is probably the other great resource you need to make use of. Talk to other players and pick their brain. Yeah, I know, I'm saying this in a VF forum; we already know this. But really, try not to forget it. If you find someone online you really like playing with, friend them, chat with them. Compare notes, ask them how they were able to beat you, or if they noticed some mistakes you made, of course being sure you'll give them the same info. I've learned a lot about using Lei simply by asking some of the people I've played against about the game, and most had no problems responding. And of course, there's the guys here... just one night of asking a couple of questions to the right people improved my game immediately the next day. I know this should be obvious, but it's so valuable a resource to us that I think it should be acknowledged now and again.

    Ok, that's it, I've made this into a freaking college essay. I'm sure there are some mistakes or opinions that the more expert of us may take issue with, or perhaps something doesn't exactly match your own experience. That's fine. Post under here and share your own notes, so that we can all learn something. The whole point of this is to get as much practical information for Lei as we can in one spot so that we can all benefit. I definitely have no problems with anyone correcting anything I said here... it's only going to improve my game.

    Catch you guys online sometime; I'm going to bed. And keep training.
     
    StalaggtIKE likes this.
  2. VFnumbers

    VFnumbers Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    PSN:
    VFnumbers
    XBL:
    VFnumbers
    Watch careful how ppl deal with leifei kyo stance. Do they evade? use k+g. Do they 2p? switch to doku stance.Do they stand and guard? use 2k or better p+k. If they duck use kk from the stance. im trying to find more strategies to use entering to hai stance after 6 P+k and 43p. suirankan p+k is excellent against low rising k.His k+gfull circular option is 0 frames on guard. Even in koko stance watch the tendencies of ur opponent. evade? Cancel koko stance and use k+g. If they 2p use k, if they shoulder, double hand attacks, unsabakiable move,ETC. Use stance evade, if they try to elbow,p knee,use koko p sabaki. Finally avoid using this koko stance against jacky.
     
  3. VFnumbers

    VFnumbers Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    PSN:
    VFnumbers
    XBL:
    VFnumbers
    One more thing i noticed is that most of his stance magic from bokutai, koko, hai are gone and i tend to get hit alot switching between stance. i dunno if his koko k can sabaki low rising k because every time i attempted it i just get hit instead. Surprisingly i still haven't been hit with akira's 466p+k shoulder yet in koko stance. lol Probably use the record feature to implement this scenario.
     
  4. SwordSainte

    SwordSainte Member

    Thanks a lot for the tips. Reading the opponent and knowing what move to do for certain reactions is one of the weaker aspects of my game, particularly in the middle of setting up attacks. I need to slow down sometimes and see exactly how they are trying to deal with what I'm doing. I'll try to work those moves in practice.

    Also, thanks for pointing out that KK from Kyo is good against people ducking against it... don't know why I forgot to mention that one since I actually use it for that reason, as well as combo ender.

    I also tend to get hit trying to switch between stances, but I chalked it up to just not being good enough and figured it was more of an advanced thing, which is why I've been focusing more on moving through stances through attacks, where there seems to be less of a chance of getting whacked out of the transitions. I figure you're a better player than I am, so if you're getting hit trying to switch stances via the P+K+G inputs, maybe the developers changed something. Considering what I've heard about how they've simplified certain things, I wouldn't be surprised.
     
  5. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    lastmonk
    VF, you're exactly right if you're referring to intermediate to advanced players. But my first couple of days on PSN ranked mode, what I've seen, is a lot of players who are just trying to rank up, they come in to the match with 'predetermined agenda' They intend to use on you, what has been working on everybody else. I don't even think they care if its Lei Fei or not.

    Most of my matches I'll just wait to see what the opponent does, most of the times they come out with some 'pre conceived' attack string, and are not even hit checking to see if I'm still standing in the same place. Alot of these players are on autopilot, just grinding their way through the ranks. They just be some other sucker with their attacks, and they figure they'll roll you over with the same stuff. So i've just been learning new opening defenses. I can't count how may times I've successfully used the only real reversal Lei Fei has, as my opening move in all three rounds [​IMG] That's a dead give away that many of the new players just come out swinging they don't care which character is across from them.

    I've noticed that once the opponent has been punished from Hai Shiki or Bokutai once or twice they tend to 'Pause' the next time you go into the stance because they really don't know what's comin.

    Those stances are good ways to 'train your opponent' what to expect. Use them twice maybe three times in a match the same way, and then when you need them most and the opponent is expecting what you've shown them every other time, use one of the other options from hai shiki and bokutai (it works almost every time) even intermediate to advanced players fall for it. Its the ultimate mixup game.

    It seems like they think you only know the one option because you haven't changed it up in two or three uses. So when you're down to the last move of the match and you go into that stance, they get cocky [​IMG]

    I've noticed some players (especially new ones, but some old ones) use Lei Fei's stances in a confusing kind of blitz offensive attack so the opponent does not know how to defend.

    but what I'm finding in these ranked grinds, is that Lei Fei's stances can be equally confusing from a defensive point of view. Depending on how his stances are used the opponent will
    'Pause' because they are not sure how to attack. You can then use that 'Pause' anyway you choose: You could create more distance, do a change up attack, whatever.

    Definitely his stances can be used to 'train' your opponent's expectations. I played the same guy last night 3 times in a row (one of us was a glutten for punishment) I used the hai, bokutai, and nehan the same ways in the first two fights, and in the third fight a brought them back with different options, I had trained this guy what to expect. By the third match he was totally fooled.

    Yea the fast fury of stance changes worx sometimes. But also don't forget the long term 'mind game' get your opponent to believe that either there is only one option from any particular stance, or believe that you only know one option from any particular stance. (its best to do this in round 1) and the beginning of round 2.

    The other think i've learned from playing these rank grinders they quickly forget Lei Fei's stances. So I would play the first couple of rounds using almost exclusively Hai Shiki to normal to Hai Shiki and the various attacks and defense from just two stances. Then in round three introduce other stances and again I would get that 'Pause' [​IMG]

    I don't know whether slowy revealing stance options and slowy revealing the stances(themselves) will work often against advanced players, I do know that intermediate playeers and noobs (at least the ones on PSN ranked mode) will fall for it again and again. And at least twice I made an advanced player 'Pause' their high pressured game, because I had convinced them that I was a one dimensional Lei Fei player by using only certain options from hai shiki and bokutai.

    Use Lei Fei's stances to cause the opponent to pause just long enough:

    So that they are not sure how to attack
    OR
    So that they are not sure how to defend

    I have found that 'pause' your opponent's moment of indecision ends up being just enough to win matches. Forget all that Lei Fei is low tier crap
     
  6. Seidon

    Seidon Well-Known Member Content Mgr El Blaze

    Thank god you're not dead!
     
  7. SwordSainte

    SwordSainte Member

    First off, I want to thank VFnumbers and masterpo for the invaluable information they provided. I've already tried working on your suggestions, and noticed some improvement in my matches against some people. That said, I'm still getting my knot rocked at times (which gets really frustrating when it's because of lag AND the guy is spamming moves you know you could stop otherwise...), so I need more time in the Chambers. :p

    I wanted to correct something in my original thread though... when I posted my stance change combo ([1][P]+[K], [P][6][P], [K],[P],[P],[P]+[K]), I said that the damage was about 91. That's only true if the first hit was a counter. Otherwise it's around 85 damage. Still nothing to sneeze at though.

    Another major mistake I made was with [P],[2][P],[P] in the stance usage section... it's supposed to be [P],[6][P],[P]. My stance change combo also has the same mistake of using 2 when I meant 6, ie [2] instead of [6]. Don't know how the hell I messed that up.

    Oh, and as you can see, I figured out how to do the whole "official looking inputs" code thing. Was going to update the first post with it, as well as correct the damage value of that combo and the stance transition [P],[6][P],[P] attack string, but apparently I can't edit it anymore, so oh well.

    Anyway, also wanted to update with a bit of more info from what I got working for me in the lab so far. Keep in mind that this is purely stuff I've been using on the CPU at level 4 right now... have been staying away from online matches for now till I get my game honed a bit more (though I really am open for any of you guys to school me on PSN... my tag there is the same as my username here: SwordSainte). Still, this is stuff I'm working on to deal with human players, not to exploit any AI glitches, so I think this may be useful for you guys. Definitely let me know either way.

    One of the moves I've recently been working into my offense is [4][3][P]+[K]. It's ridiculously fast, and I've found that it can be a great follow up to a poke like [6][6][P]+[K], [6][P] and [3][P]. If the guy does anything other than a quick jab, a spot on evade, or block, they're getting knocked down and away, so it's a nice way to keep up the pressure and away from you if their offense getting to you. It's also not a bad move to pop out from just out of close range, if they're trying to get in, and you're not exactly "set up" yet, or just want to keep them off balance. It can also make a nice ender for a combo, like [9][K]+[G], [P], [4][3][P]+[K]. The move can be evaded and countered though, so don't overuse it.

    Also, I've been discovering all sorts of shenanigans with mixing up going into Kyo and Dokuritsu. Even though getting into Kyo from [6][P] and [3][P] and then mixing up your attacks from there, smart players sooner or later will know to watch out for those two pokes leading into that stance and plan accordingly, especially if you're going into it all the time (which, as good as the stance transition is, you shouldn't overuse.) Every now and then it's good to just throw out the poke without transitioning just to throw them off and mess with their responses (remember [4][3][P]+[K]). Even more, if they are the type that are susceptible to [K],[K] from Kyo, and try to stop you from getting into Kyo to keep that attack from getting them, then it's time to slip in Dokuritsu. Remember that [P],[6][P],[P] string? Just do the first two attacks, then launch into [K],[K]: it's the same double kick. If you got them trained to see it from Kyo, they won't see it coming when you switch up to [P],[6][P]. And by the way, there are some really nasty combos you can pull off from that double kick. Keep in mind that [K],[K] is not all you can do from each of these stances... I just mention that in case your opponent tends to fall for it. If you know how to combo off that double kick, it will make for an even more powerful tool.

    Again, take this advice with a grain of salt. I am still a novice after all. (that's why I need some of you guys to play me... :p)
     
  8. VFnumbers

    VFnumbers Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    PSN:
    VFnumbers
    XBL:
    VFnumbers
    I learned that kyo stance is very strong
     
  9. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    lastmonk
    And their are some very nice transitions into kyo.

    I'm going to spend the next week or so practicing into and out of kyo stance. Alot of other players simply haven't seen it yet, it fools a lot of ppl first few times. But i want to work it into my hai shiki and doku ritsu stances more smoothly

    and what about from doku ritsu
    [P] [+] [K] and on hit [G] [+] [K] (nice)
     
  10. Hardsoul

    Hardsoul New Member

    New to the VF forum but been reading the Lei Fei threads a lot recently as always used him offline and only now have the chance to fight against people online as never an option before for a PS3 owner of VF.

    The knowledge base has already knocked me for six - who knew how deep this particular rabbit hole could lead you! A little in awe to be honest. It's posts like this that are such a breath of fresh air and genuinely can inspire people to make themselves better by helping rather than preaching.

    It convinced me to join my first ever fighting game forum. I have played a couple of names from memory here I think but looking forward to playing more. VFnumbers I think you more or less destroyed me last time we fought;-)

    Despite being...better than average...at SSF4 it's nice to sink my teeth back into VF as see it as more of a 'pure' fighting game IMO.
     
  11. phanatik

    phanatik Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    I phanatik I
    Welcome
     
  12. SwordSainte

    SwordSainte Member

    (I would like to thank Hardsoul for the kind words about this thread, as well as masterpo and VFnumbers putting their two cents in. I really want to play you guys so I can learn more about what I’m supposed to be doing with Lei-Fei. Same with phanatik, though I don’t have a 360 so I can’t play you. [​IMG] Yet… )

    Well, as I said in another thread I finally got the breaker problems in my house taken care of, so I’ve been able to put some time in the lab again. Haven’t really been playing much online matches though, since I think I owe it to the other players to have a dedicated Ethernet cable for my PS3… I know how much you guys hate people who play with wireless (though to be fair, most of the online matches I used to play had decent connections). I’m still willing to play any of you guys who happen to be reading this, but you’re going to have to send me an invite or something until I get the cable, which should happen sometime next week.

    Anyway, this is supposed to be about what I’m learning with our favorite monk, so let me get into this real quick.

    You may remember back in my first post that I said it’s not really all that important to learn combos at first, that you should take the time to train in the fundamentals before trying to pop out sick combos. I still hold to this. However, I think you should have at least two or three combos ready to go when the opportunity presents itself. And they should be simple, but effective ones that you can do in your sleep to almost any character you come across (in other words, combos you practice ad naseum in the dojo until they become instinctive). You need a good bread and butter combo to rely on that you can pull off flawlessly whenever you need to that does decent damage, and can do in a pinch while you’re still learning the intricacies of the game.

    Lei Fei’s [9][K]+[G] is a rather nice punisher. It comes out pretty quick and it launches people, which of course opens up combo opportunities. From there, you should try to land the following combo:

    [P], [3][P], [P]+[K]+[G], [K],[K].

    It’s a rather simple combo to pull off, and it’s one I’ve been relying on ever since I saw it in that video I posted up in the Lei Fei video thread a while back. And it works on just about everyone, except of course big boy Taka… but just take out the [P] and start with the [3][P] instead, and it should work just fine.

    If you’re having a problem landing that first [P], and/or you want a different way to land that combo, you can do what I like to call the VFnumbers variation:

    [2][P], [3][P], [P]+[K]+[G], [K],[K].

    Since the first punch hits low, you have an easier time hitting the guy. I also think this may work on Taka, though I haven’t tested this yet, since I haven’t really practiced this version. I’ll let you know later, or someone else can let us know.

    Another version you can try is this one:

    [P], [6][P], [K], [K].

    That one’s even easier, since there’s no canceling to be done. However, I suggest that beginners learn the other one first, since canceling into Kyo stance (which this combo does, in case you haven’t realized that) is a skill you need to develop when learning how to use Lei. Still, if you’re having a problem doing this combo in matches against people, you can rely on this one for a while… I mean, it works, right? Just don’t neglect to train that Kyo stance transition.

    Then there’s that other combo I mentioned in my first post… you know the one:

    [1][K]+[G], [P], [6][P], [K], [P], [P], [P]+[K]

    I hope if you’re a novice like me that you’ve been practicing this one… it not only does decent damage, but it helps you to understand how to flow from one stance to the next, as well as learning what the moves from the stances can do for you. Still, we’re just talking about having a good combo to rely on here, and really, this one isn’t all that hard to do. So if you can get this one down pat, you've got a good, dangerous combo that can devour large sections of life and make your opponent fear you.

    But let’s be honest… unless you’re playing against someone who really doesn’t know what they’re doing, you’re not going to find many opportunities to land that [1][K]+[G]. That’s why combos from moves like [9][K]+[G] and [9][K] tend to be more frequent. But the beautiful thing about this combo, and the first one as well, is that you can pull of the main parts of them from other launchers… launchers that can happen from opportunities that you can set up. [​IMG]

    Consider the following scenario:

    I just blocked an attack from Jacky that gave me enough frame advantage to get away with responding with [P], [6][P], [P] (a punch string you should definitely be learning to work with, by the way.) That puts you in Hai Shiki. I hesitate for a moment, then hit [K] to pop him when he drops his guard. Presto, he’s in the air. Guess what I can do from here?

    [K], [P], [P], [P]+[K]

    Yep, it’s the last 5 hits of the big combo. And you’re getting almost the same amount of damage. Nice, huh?

    Or how about this scenario?

    Same match against Jacky. I go into Dokuritsu, then roll towards him. Let’s say I did this before, and did the throw that comes out of it that time. This time Jacky’s ready for it, so he tries to hit me before I can do the throw… but I hit [K] intead, popping in into the air for two hits.

    Guess what I can do from here?

    [P], [3][P], [P]+[K]+[G], [K],[K]

    Seriously. Try it, it works.

    There are several more set ups you’ll find where you can end them off with these combos, or the ends of them. The frequency of these little moments happening is dependant upon how strong your basics are, and how good you are at using your stances to open your opponent up to a quick launch and combo opportunity. And here’s where what I said before about focusing more on basic fundamentals and pokes comes into play here: you don’t need to know that many combos at first to make this happen. Just two combos and their variations are enough to help you win matches… as long as your fundamentals are decent and you have a few gambits under your belt to make things happen. [9][K]+[G], Kyo Shiki, Hai Shiki, and the kicks from these stances (and the rolls from Dokuritsu) are all you need in the beginning to make these situations happen for you… you just need to know how to use them. And how you learn to use them is to make them a part of your poking and defense checking game, which is a major part of VF fundamentals. In fact, I’ve won more matches relying on my fast fame moves and set ups than I have trying to land crazy combos. So that’s what I’ve learned with Lei recently: Build on the fundamental skills, but have two bread and butter combos to pull out as soon as you make your opponent kiss the sky.

    There’s a little more to this, but I’ll post that up when I get home from work. Then again, it should be obvious what else is important about having those bread and butter combos.
     
  13. basho

    basho Member

    I really appreciate this guide/forum. I've noticed considerable improvement, not just in my game, but in how I think about Lei. So thanks to sword sainte for starting the thread and the valuable advice.
     
  14. SwordSainte

    SwordSainte Member

    (Basho: glad that this thread is already helping you to improve. I'm still trying to get my own act together in online play, though at least I seem to be better than I was when I first picked this game up.)

    Heh, so I had said that I was going to put up the other important thing about learning combos as a novice when I got home after writing that first post about it… but then I got hit with a hailstorm of real life crap that got in the way. Sorry about that. But hey, at least I’m doing it now.

    Anyway, the thing I was going to say here should be obvious, and it’s something that I mentioned already in the first post about this: you absolutely need to be able to perform your combos during a match without fail. Dropping combos is a good way to hand the win to your opponent; believe me, I know, since I’ve given away a whole lot of rounds because of this. That’s the reason why I think it’s best in the beginning to learn a couple of basic, but damaging combos that are easy for you to do. Once you feel comfortable with it, and you know it’s a good all purpose combo that you can rely on, then practice the hell out of it until it’s motions are carved in your memory and twitch reflexes. Every time you turn the game on, spend a few moments in the dojo practicing those combos over and over before even thinking about jumping online (you should be doing this anyway, and not just for combos either).You should also spend time playing against the computer, making sure to go for those combos the second you see the opportunity. Remember, that special sparring mode wasn’t put in there for no reason. Once you can perform them under pressure against the computer, then you can go and use them online (and live of course) against your potential victims.

    Of course, online play is always a different beast than playing against the computer; human players are always going to be more challenging, for a variety of reasons. Not only that, but you may also have to contend with nerves getting in the way, causing you to spaz out and start messing up your button inputs, or just suddenly plain forget what you were supposed to do. And then there’s lag… that freakin’ lag. Few things are more frustrating than pressing an attack you know should hit then… only to see your character just standing there doing nothing for that split second you actually pressed the button. You end up with a missed opportunity, and usually, a fist in your face.

    Not much can be done about the lag really, other than to try to compensate for it, and make sure you only play people with good signal strength. As far as nerves though, the only thing I can tell you is to keep practicing. The only way to stop yourself from dropping combos is building up your skill and confidence. You may get nervous, but there’s less of a chance of that getting in the way if you know what you’re doing, if you have confidence in your abilities. Even if the guy is better than you, if you have a good sense of your own skills and gameplan, then you can be sure that if you lose, it will be because the guy is better than you overall, and not also because you kept messing up your own attacks. And you will get better sooner or later. But that won’t happen if you don’t keep practicing your combos over and over until they become second nature. You HAVE to put that time in the lab and against the A.I. if you want to be successful. And you have to be willing to get beaten down every now and then to get the experience and exposure needed in order to get those jitters out the way.

    Yeah I know, an obvious thing to know. But sometimes it’s the obvious things that we need to focus on.
     
  15. SwordSainte

    SwordSainte Member

    (special thanks to basho… both for patiently waiting for me to fix my NAT settings on my PS3, and for playing a couple of matches with me before I ran off to work. Playing against him actually helped me to formulate this next post.)

    I don’t know if many of you guys have this particular problem, but one of the things I’ve noticed when I jump online is that I lose confidence. When I’m playing against the AI, I pretty much get all my moves and combos out. If I see an opening, I’m usually able to take it. And my sidesteps more or less are on point. But once I jump online, I sometimes become a mess. Now I’m not landing simple combos I’ve been practicing over and over in the Dojo. I’m missing throw opportunities. I make stupid attacks that put me at rather large frame disadvantages. And then I lose. Often.

    As I said before, Lei-Fei really isn’t a mash friendly character, at least, not in my opinion. He doesn’t have as much priority as some other characters it seems, nor does he have those long 4-5 hit attack strings that other characters enjoy, and a lot of his better moves have directional inputs, making you have to put in more mental effort to get his attacks out, rather than just flailing your fingers on the buttons. So if you find yourself spazing out with him, you’re probably going to lose. Oh sure, a lot of noobs think they can get away with just mashing like made because of the funky stances he has that can confuse people… but remember that his [P][P][P] doesn’t stance change anymore, leaving only his standing [K] to switch stances if you’re just mashing away… and just spamming [K] is a good way to leave yourself open to some painful combos.

    So basically, you really need to take your time and properly set up your pokes and attacks to win with Lei. And if you’re nervous as hell and lack confidence, you’ll find yourself spazing out or freezing up real quick. Believe me, I speak from experience.

    Now, some people already have that confidence. They’ve played fighting games before, and/or they already have some VF experience under the belt. So playing people online is almost nothing for them. But there are some other people, myself included, who haven’t played VF hardcore against other people in the past, so they don’t have that confidence that would come from such experience. They may be able to do well against the computer because, well hey, it’s just the computer. No matter how hard it can get, rank or pride isn’t at stake here. But once you play other people, that may start to give you the jitters… especially if the stuff you’re trying to do doesn’t seem to be working.

    No of course, the only sure way to overcome all that is to, well, just keep playing. You have to give yourself that experience and confidence, and you can’t do that by just sitting around and feeling sorry for yourself. But there is something else you can do, something that I think many of us already know… and that’s to find people you’re comfortable playing against to have constant matches with. If you’re playing people you just want to have fun with, without really caring too much about the outcome, then you may just find those jitters going away, and suddenly your stuff starts to work. And that will help cement in your mind that, hey… you CAN do this.

    I had a horrible night two nights ago online… it was like I couldn’t buy a win. Sure, I won a couple of games, but for the most part, I was getting stomped out. Even worse, several of the matches I lost I knew I should have won. I could tell by how the other guy was playing that I could take them… and yet I STILL lost. Looking back on those matches, I made a lot of bone headed mistakes and kept dropping simple combos. In short, I was getting the jitters, and it was keeping me from playing decently.

    Tonight however, it was different. I jumped online not really caring anymore, and just wanted to try out some new stuff I was working on. Had three matches… and won two of them. Hmm….

    Then basho came on and invited me for a few matches. After having to wait a while for me to fix my NAT settings (took me WAY too long to change from type 3 to type 2), we had two matches, and we each had one win a piece. In both those matches, I was just having fun, and was just happy I was finally able to make the connection with him. Because of that, I wasn’t really having the jitters… and I was able to play ok. Oh sure, I made some dumb moves (basho, if you’re reading this, I’m sure you noticed I was dropping the [9][K]+[G], [P], [3][P], [P]+[K]+[G], [K],[K] combo a few times.)… I was a little nervous that that he would be turned off by my novice level play. But I did alright overall, and I had fun… which made me play better than I did two nights ago.

    So basically, what I learned tonight is that it can really help to have someone you feel comfortable sparing with when learning how to use Lei. Since his transitions and stance change antics can be difficult to set up, especially under pressure, you need to have the confidence to pull it off. That can only be gained through constant play, but what may help ease that transition from playing AI to human opponents is playing against people you feel confortable with and/or people you want to play against. So all those connections that we’ve been making here on the VFCD forums? Like all the stuff in the Xbox and PS3 forums, and masterpo’s Shaolin team thing he’s trying to start? Take advantage of that. Find people you want to play with, and then play them consistently. That’s what made me get real good back when I was rocking in Street fighter 2 and all its versions (and 3: Third Strike, Alpha 2 and 3…), that’s what’s slowly making me improve in VF5:FS, and it will definitely help you if you haven’t done it yet. Most of the people here already know this, so if you’re new to VF, just step in with the rest of them. :p

    Next time I post, it will get back to actual moves and stuff, I promise.


    (by the way, now that I finally got my NAT type changed, I can FINALLY get into rooms and such. So if you’ve been meaning to play me, just let me know via PM or just shoot me a message on PSN. We’ll get some matches in eventually.)
     
  16. StalaggtIKE

    StalaggtIKE New Member

    Lei is a challenge to master. This has been very helpful to start.

    Some things I've learned: He seems to be very susceptible to step. What's best to counter step?
    Besides 6P/3P->Kyo and P,6P... strings what's the best way to keep up the pressure?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2014
  17. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    lastmonk
    hmmm..... countering steps, and keeping up pressure with Lei Fei, that will depend on the style you develop with Lei, keeping up pressure with Lei Fei is relative to whether your fighting style is:

    Zoner-Poker
    pitbull
    Turtle
    Grappler

    There is one kind of pressure ,If you are trying to keep up pressure with a pitbull style (kind-a-pressure by definition) and a different kind of pressure if you have a turtling style. Others may disagree, but imo each style has its own kind of pressuring, and you have to be a little more specific when you post 'keeping up pressure with Lei Fei'. Here is a classic article on the basic fighting styles:

    http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/109673/fighting-game-archetypes

    There is the pressure you apply, and the pressure your opponent feels (those are not always the same) For example: Pitbull may pressure your opponent to react defensively, Turtle may pressure your opponent to proact offensively. Pitbull 'may' pressure your opponent in to a defensive posture that you are looking for, A Turtle style may pressure your opponent into a offensive sequence or position on the stage that you need for a combo setup, counter hit set up or reversal setup. A Grappler style may pressure your opponent into a stance that sets up reversal throws for wall comobos or ringouts, (think AOI).

    I guess my long winded point here is that keeping up pressure is relative to not only which character you fight with , but which basic fighting style you use with that character(Zoner, pitbull, turtle, grappler, etc). And imo there is definitely offensive pressure, and defensive pressure (again others may disagree). Different Lei Fei stylist will probably have different answers for you. I am also curious to see what they will post here :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2014
    StalaggtIKE likes this.
  18. StalaggtIKE

    StalaggtIKE New Member

    Yes, I should clarify. I'm referring to pitbull, however I am also interested in zoner as well! So far I've been using 1PKG~4PKG~1PKG... stance transitions for spacing.

    I find that some of is flashier moves require range and or time to setup, so zoning tips would be nice as well.

    Edit: As for step, does he have any mid full circle moves?
     
  19. masterpo

    masterpo VF Martial Artist Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    lastmonk
    check this thread out:

    http://virtuafighter.com/threads/starting-out-with-lei-fei.18410/

    I don't want to duplicate if it is already addressed.
     

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