What Wrong with tekken

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by Drunken_Master, Feb 10, 2001.

  1. Drunken_Master

    Drunken_Master Well-Known Member

    I was playing tekken in the arcades the other day and it just came to me. i figured what was bothering me about the game. ITS TO DAMN EASY TO DO BIG COMBOS and its to easy to master a character i was using martail law pual phenoix and others like i was a expert. I dont even own tekken i play it at my mates house all the time.( and i always kick his ass i might add) Were in virtua fighter i feel like i have to earn my mastery with a character, i still havent totaly mastered my favorite character Shun. This does how one problem i cant really get my freinds to play it as its to hard for them. Oh well enough of my rant

    PS i am not saying tekken is a bad game or anything

    'Strong body but a weak mind' Sam Seed from Drunken Masters
     
  2. Mr. Bungle

    Mr. Bungle Well-Known Member

    i think this belongs in the general discussion group...
     
  3. Drunken_Master

    Drunken_Master Well-Known Member

    er.... ok sorry

    'Strong body but a weak mind' Sam Seed from Drunken Masters
     
  4. GodEater

    GodEater Well-Known Member

    nothing

    hmmm...we do have a general message board now
    so this type of question would probably be
    better there (strangely, someone posted a
    VF question in the general board) but I'll
    answer.

    There's nothing wrong with Tekken. And
    no offense but you may have pulled off
    some combos but I have lingering doubts
    that you were playing like an expert.
    for all the knocks Tekken takes as a poor
    game it has its own depth of gameplay and
    strategies that take some time to get the
    hang of. Mastering a character means
    more than combos.

    This is true in practically any good game.
    In VF if you can exploit the combo system
    you have handed yourself a wonderful tool
    but it is only one tool. If you never
    get a chance to float your opponent and
    are relying on that to happen you will
    lose. Quickly. "mastering" a character
    means means knowing every strength and
    every weakness that is implicit in
    every situation during a round.

    Games like SF and Tekken attract a higher
    competition pool because in the lower to
    middle pool combos always play a huge role
    and are equated to being a "good" player.
    In the higher end of the spectrum these
    "good" players tend to lose a lot of
    quarters.

    In VF there is a combo system. Its not
    as easy or as flashy as others and so
    not as appealing. People rarely ooh and
    ahh over a 3 hit combo but they are the
    staples. In VF, the lower tier players
    clear out pretty quickly and head for more
    familiar pastures, where they can shine a
    little more easily. This leaves the small
    group of interested middle tier people and
    the dedicated top tier people. And they
    are looking at the entire game, they are
    exploring every nuance and frame and
    opportunity that will lead to complete
    control. Most of these people will argue
    against the elusive mastery and opt for
    completeness.

    GE
    -as an aside, Sitson (a player from by-gone
    days) believed that as soon as you knocked
    your opponent down you lost momentum. his
    whole gameplan with Jacky was to keep you
    standing, making sure you were continually
    off balance and taking damage with no time
    to breathe.
     
  5. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    Re: nothing

    "as an aside, Sitson (a player from by-gone
    days) believed that as soon as you knocked
    your opponent down you lost momentum. his
    whole gameplan with Jacky was to keep you
    standing, making sure you were continually
    off balance and taking damage with no time
    to breathe."

    Exactly Why I refuse to stomp a player who is down.
    If anyone read the response I put up on strategies for Jacky(granted, I was drunk while writing, but the views in the post are pretty clear) n' Myke's response to Shota explaining the way I play.(Actually, I screamed for help!)

    This is the exact reason why I think most characters should not stomp.

    However, if a stomp is all it takes kill em, do it.
    I still maintain my view up till todae.








    <font color=red>SummErs' 'Ride the Lighting Legacy'
     
  6. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Are you kidding? Some of the harder Tekken combos are...EXTREMELY hard. Maybe I haven't been playing the game long enough, I dunno, but in terms of difficulty it's surely there.

    And I also disagree with the notion that Tekken characters have less to master. Characters like Hwoarang have a tremendous amount of depth to them.

    ice-9
     
  7. Drunken_Master

    Drunken_Master Well-Known Member

    Re: nothing

    well i can do quite a few of the 10 hit combos bear in mind i dont own the game, but maybe your right but i am yet to find a person better than me at the game and i dont own it. dont get me wrong i enjoy tekken

    'Strong body but a weak mind' Sam Seed from Drunken Masters
     
  8. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Re: nothing

    There is a lot to both Tekken and VF. I'm no master at Tekken and have only JUST STARTED on getting competitive in the game (trying to at least deal with seasoned players).

    However, there certainly is a lot to the game and certainly a lot of it is character specific. As Ice mentioned, Hwoarang is a character that is hard to master. Is he easy to mash? Yeah, but if you're beating someone that way it's because they're not accustomed to the game. Same goes for any game, especially VF. Eddy Gordo is the same way, you have the mashers and the experts for Eddy. Eddy mashers get killed by anyone who is at all seasoned in the game. Goes on and on, but many people still discredit Tekken without a decent knowledge of the game.

    And us in the VF community have witnessed this happen to VF3. We've seen people who think the game is all PPPK (ridiculous, I know), they see a series of ground hits executed by the likes of Lion and they think that's cheap (trust me, I've heard this constantly, and yet I still think that being knocked down is more of an advantage than in Tekken... Goes hand in hand with what I interpreted from GE's statements about Sitson as well). Tekken players often can't even figure out how VF players execute throws as often as they do in the game (throw engine between the two games are so different).

    I'll admit I personally enjoy VF more than Tekken, but I really like the Tekken games as well. For such a number of characters in the Tekken series, each of them have quite a bit of high-level techniques (in addition to their own set of fundamentals that have to be mastered as well).

    Ah well, I should let a Tekken master defend the game. However, it's so hard to judge what is high-level play and what is not. I remember watching VF3tb matches a year ago, the ones posted as well as some others thinking it looked stupid. Few months ago, I realize what's really going on, what the real concerns are, and I realize more importantly that so much of what's going on is right. VF is pure eye-bliss for those that understand it. That goes for just about everything. But we often forget that.

    -Chanchai

    P.S. I've spent some time with Law, Hwoarang, and Lei. As far as Law is concerned, he's powerful in Tekken 3, easy to use, but that doesn't mean he's mastered. In Tekken Tag, he's quite a bit harder to use in a sense, but he does have some nice tools. Getting the right pokes in at the right time is pretty tough against above average players, Law's mix up games aren't that great as far as I've learned so far, but I'm working on it. Hwoarang really requires observing his stance (something so obvious if you play him) and is pretty tough overall for those who know even slightly how to defend against him. Lei is fun as hell to play, especially if you can manage to abuse his stances and messing around with some of his steps. Moves around quite a bit, good mixup if you know him well, fun character/images/icons/smile.gif Anyways, that's my low-level understanding of those characters....
     
  9. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Again, the 10 hits are the pieces of the puzzle...what makes a great master is picking them apart and using only the parts you want to create your own combo...in the end, aside from the guard buffering, the combos are similar to vf where you pick and chose parts of pre-programed strings.

    "Victory can be anticipated, but not assured" Sun-Tzu
     
  10. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    I'm gonna reference back on what GE said... Simply because this whole thing bugs the hell out of me...

    Combos are cool and all, and they represent a focused effort on one part of fighting games. However, they're not EVERYTHING. They can be big things in many games, but combos don't get you from point A to B. Combos have to start from a point other than A.

    Absolute mastery is different from becoming an expert in a field. If you say you master a certain character, I'm expecting it to mean you are an expert of all aspects and know your character's relation to others in an application sense. It's also more than that.

    I don't know if it's the US or what... but so much emphasis is placed on combos. "That player sucks because he can't do that combo." "Man, he's a better player than the other guy because he can pull off that freakin' combo, but I don't see why he lost." It goes on and on. In addition to that, I don't think Tekken is much at all represented well alone in its 10 string combos. Eventually, some characters are powerful in a mixup game. Some characters are powerful because of combos. But those characters don't represent everything in the game. An expert in combos will need to understand the field of setting up his offense properly in a competitive (in terms of winning).

    Playing a game for combos is fine with me. Confusing combos as an absolute measurement of total skill annoys me. Combo skills. Set up skills. Yomi skills. Control/stability skills. Etc... One skill does not equal the other, but most certainly the harmony existing in all of those skills within a player are quite important if the goal is WINNING.

    I respect and admire people who take the time to master combos. But I don't think a game is really made up of combos in terms of playing to win or compete.

    In Tekken, if you lost because someone juggled you to death or got you stuck in a combo, it's not a matter of just the combo. Moreso, it's not at all because Tekken is "only combos." It's because he got you into the combo in the first place, either by your mistake or his capitalizing an advantage. Combos go hand in hand with setups. But in playing to win, combos are nothing without at least one or two properly executed setups. The exception being an infinite or 100% combo which would probably require one good setup.

    -Chanchai

    P.S. All of this certainly applies to VF. Most definitely. Another thing that annoys me (which is related) is the whole, "man, that guy has no [input some aspect of play] skills, he should not have beat me 'cause he sucks." Fine with me if you acknowledge that you are more irritated than actually believing that you lost because you are better than him and he got lucky. Annoys me though because it's usually out of ignorance. If it bugs you, I understand and that's cool. If it's "unfair or should not have happened," get a grip.
     
  11. adamYUKI

    adamYUKI Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    adamYUKI
    XBL:
    adamYUKI
    Re: nothing

    I used to think this way...Keep them up, keep them staggering...Then I realized that you have to knock them down..its too hard to keep the momentum of constant staggering...too many opportunities for the opponent to interrupt you with major attacks or just simple high p or low punch, since staggering involves mostly mid attacks...

    You could peck and run....but thats very hard...

    Dunno I used to play pai (well still do), and keep the constant staggering going....now I knock down and take damage and it is much more effective...

    Elbow heelkick pounce or elbow stagger grab is more effective than the elbow, pp, elbow type of rushing...

    Also depends on your opponent. But I think the kocking down and pouncing strategy works overall better than the keep them up strategy....

    CrewNYC


    <font color=red>ORA! ORA! ORA!</font color=red>

    <font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>
     
  12. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    Re: nothing

    Let the situation dictate.
    That's what I believe in.

    However, I chooese not to stomp most of the time. Esp, when
    facing players whom I have trouble fighting when they are standing. I need the advantage, move myself around attack them as soon as They rise.

    Of course, When I am behind, the temption to pounce is sooo great, I end up doing those soccer kick. Everytime I do it, I end up regreting it, cause I don't have enuff time to prepare my next move. (Like u, I am a footwork maniac)Either that, or my KS is just way to SLOW/images/icons/smile.gif

    However, like I say , let the situation dictate.
    I've been known to be a pouncing whore against some./images/icons/smile.gif

    hard to believe eh? Myke? Doomboy?
    HEHEHEHE

    <font color=red>SummErs' 'Ride the Lighting Legacy'
     
  13. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    Re: nothing

    I actually recall trying to get you to play a more conventional Jacky at one stage.I kinda felt guilty afterwards because your crazy legs Jacky style has actually proved more effective than my orthadox Jacky play with the constant elbow heel pounce at every opportunity:)
     
  14. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    Re: nothing

    True it is very difficult to keep them up and out guess them the entire round but it sure looks fancy don't it?
     
  15. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    Re: nothing

    Crazy legs?
    Crazy legs?

    I like the style I play with Jacky.
    I'm trying to spread it...with not much success though.

    Ain't nothing compared to the KS then spod Akira huahauahauahaahahaha(hehe)

    <font color=red>SummErs' 'Ride the Lighting Legacy'
     
  16. AlexMD

    AlexMD Well-Known Member Content Manager Lei

    Re: nothing

    ah sorry...I guess the name SummErs and crazy legs a rarely used apart from each other :)
     
  17. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member

    Re: nothing

    Damn...
    being known as Crazy legs....

    <font color=red>SummErs' 'Ride the Lighting Legacy'
     
  18. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Re: nothing

    The name Crazy Legs is taken already by a B-Boy down in Southern California /images/icons/smile.gif Kinda old school now, but good reputation.

    Just thought I'd let you know/images/icons/tongue.gif

    -Chanchai
     
  19. Shadowdean

    Shadowdean Well-Known Member

    Re: nothing

    NYC city foo! Heheh..he's part of Zulu nation, whom under its wings are rocksteady crew.

    "Victory can be anticipated, but not assured" Sun-Tzu
     

Share This Page