whats the future of fighting games

Discussion in 'General' started by Drunken_Master, Aug 14, 2001.

  1. Drunken_Master

    Drunken_Master Well-Known Member

    as VF4 seems to have taken a step backward and tekken seems to be copying vf3 as far as i can tell what does the future of fighting games hold is the genre goingto go stale?

    'Strong body but a weak mind' Sam Seed from Drunken Masters
     
  2. Hayai_JiJi

    Hayai_JiJi Well-Known Member

    Of course the obvious answer would be online. I have my doubts about the plauseability of such a thing I just cant see it being very popular. i think the direction of fighting games is going in a dark and bleak place. I mean look at the current trend of making them simpler and more begginer freindly. I cannot think of one game except Street Fighter 3 third strike that has tried to appeal to the hardcore. There are a bunch of examples of games lately trying to appeal to the masses MvC2, CvS, VF3, VF4, all the Tekken games. I am of the opinion that this will continue and it makes me sad.

    Under the surface of the most jaded cynic lies a dissappointed idealist- George Carlin
     
  3. Drunken_Master

    Drunken_Master Well-Known Member

    yes and no new features if i was making a fighting game i would put in stuff like limb damage better 3d controls. I hate vf4 3d controls they are a step backwards for the game.

    'Strong body but a weak mind' Sam Seed from Drunken Masters
     
  4. Robyrt

    Robyrt Well-Known Member

    IMHO fighting games have been going downhill since SF3. The big players just keep making the same game with minor changes, probably on the newbie's side; while this gets them plenty of cash, it looks to stagnate the genre just like what's been happening to RTS games since Starcraft. The only fighters I see regularly played here in the US are TTT and MvC2, simply because they're user-friendly and let you use your favorite combo from 5 years ago.

    VF3 does everything BUT appeal to the masses... more obscure tricks, more "don't use these" canned combos, more "super reflexes only" combos, lack of Tekken crouch dashes, etc. The only way I can see it being more newbie-friendly is the E button (which most newbies don't use anyway).

    Not having played VF4, I don't know about the controls, but it seems like it requires a lot of P+K+G presses (not a good thing for consoles).

    Limb damage is rather processor-intensive and would simply be annoying.
     
  5. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    Buy an arcade stick. Pads are lame for 3d fighters.

    Adio.
     
  6. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    For those that end up playing VF4 on the PS2, there are PLENTY OF BUTTONS to allocate button combinations. As far as I know, all of the VF2 and 3 on the 3d console platforms (let's say stand-alone Mega Drive was not a 3d platform) allowed you to set certain buttons as any combination of the standard attack buttons.

    P+K+G could be R2 for low throw and Tech Roll/Rise. P+G could be R1 for throws. Heck, circle could be K+G.

    -Chanchai
     
  7. gribbly

    gribbly Well-Known Member

    Location specific damage

    >Limb damage is rather processor-intensive

    so what? we're talking about the future of fighting games... five years ago you could have said "cloth simulation is rather processor intensive" :)

    >and would simply be annoying.

    It'd be pretty cool if it was done right. Bushido Blade was an interesting first step. Basically limb damage was akin to a stance system. So you have "right arm damaged" stance, etc., and a modified movelist that comes out of it.

    I think there's a lot of potential in it...
     
  8. gribbly

    gribbly Well-Known Member

    I don't see as much doom and gloom as the others. I think there's a lot still to come for fighting games.

    I agree with you on the limb damage. Done properly this could add an interesting tactical element (like in kickboxing when you watch them work each others legs till one collapses).

    Factoring in resilience is also interesting. For argument's sake let's say we introduce a character in VF4 who gets a "x 0.75" modifier applied to all incoming damage. He (or she) is simply a person who can take punishment (like Ali!) and keep standing.

    Obviously you'd balance high resilience with other weaknesses, and low resilience with other strengths.

    I think there's a lot of scope for improved collision detection resolution. VF has the best collision detection of any 3D fighter, but it's still using primitive based approximations of the character. I'd like to see a collision system that worked with the same resolution as the visible mesh. Now before you jump on me and say "processor intensive!" let me remind you that I'm *speculating* about the *future* of fighting games.

    This high resolution collision detection should be coupled with advanced collision handling. If you hit someone square in the face it's very different to a glancing blow to the side of the face. The way their head moves, the way your arm moves, both are different. However in VF4 -- currently the best example -- you get a generic "head snapping back" reaction.

    Obviously the less-deterministic a system the harder it is to ensure that it's fun. But go with me here and trust future-AM2 to get it right!

    Then there's storyline and character. I thought Shenmue was a very promising blend of fighting game and RPG. Imagine that taken to the next level, with the full VF fighting engine somehow integrated into a complete RPG world. So you're not just fighting -- there's a *reason* to fight.

    I could go on.... :) In fact, just let me quickly mention that probably the biggest change to come is in interface. Eventually we'll get away from the joystick/buttons thing (satisying though it is) when we find something *better*. Not that this is better, but I'm reminded that when I was in Korea last year I saw a DDR arcade machine (the one with the infra-red hand sensors) modified to run TTT :)

    In short -- I think there's a big future in fighting games.

    grib.
     
  9. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Location specific damage

    Limb damage? Fighting Vipers (what, 5 years ago?) basically had limb damage. But I don't think anyone particularly cared for the feature, though it wasn't as complicated as you are hoping for. I think it's a nice idea, but limited in application because complexity doesn't necessarily make a game better. I mean, heck, AM2 decided that terrain didn't make VF better and did away with it in 4.
     
  10. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Re: Location specific damage

    Fighting Vipers. Hmm, I played Bahn and Picky. Fun for awhile, but got old real quick. Same with Last Bronx.


    [​IMG]
     
  11. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Re: Location specific damage

    Limb damage? Fighting Vipers (what, 5 years ago?) basically had limb damage.

    Not quite. The characters in FV are fitted with armour, which is divided into sections (2 or 3, I can't remmeber, high/mid/low). Losing armour only means that you take more damage to that section of the body the armour was covering. Section damage or armour loss in no way affected the performance of your character.

    From what I understood by limb damage was that the performance of the limb would be reduced as it was damaged. It would be interesting to see this concept in a non-weapons based fighting game.
     
  12. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Location specific damage

    "Basically" limb damage...
     
  13. gribbly

    gribbly Well-Known Member

    Re: Location specific damage

    I hated Fighting Vipers with a passion that was hard to hide... the character design (like the heavy metal dude who hit people with his guitar) was abysmal IMO. It even sounds bad when you type it...

    Last Bronx lasted a lot longer for me... much better character design (Yoko was cute!). And Redeye was the surely the most obviously drug-fuelled fighting game character in history? I mean... Redeye? C'mon...

    grib.
     
  14. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Re: Location specific damage

    the heavy metal guy was Raxel. i used to play him to get fast times until i found out about the bahn 100% wall combo.

    the women in LB were overpowered, imho. i used to play Nagi and the cutie-pie girl (i forgot the name, but it's not Yoko for sure), and they had insane float combos.


    [​IMG]
     
  15. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    Re: Location specific damage

    You mean Lisa, she used Twin short sticks. I loved Nagi and her Sais. Damn She was the coolest chracter with her sadist rich bitch queen attitude and ripped jeans. She was the first dyke in a video game too.

    Adio.
     
  16. feixaq

    feixaq Well-Known Member

    Re: Location specific damage

    Lisa, that's right! Nagi was a dyke?


    [​IMG]
     
  17. Adio

    Adio Well-Known Member

    Re: Location specific damage

    Though she had a fling with Kurosawa (the guy in the cheap suit with the wooden Katana), her Gang "Dogma" is female only. She has a strong interest in Yoko. (It's in the manual.) She wants Yoko to join her gang I quote: "There's something I like about that girl..." I'll say no more...

    Adio.
     
  18. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    Re: Location specific damage

    I still don't think that's enough to say she's a dyke. Not that this story is so important, but what you've mentioned doesn't really point in the direction of a lesbian to me. You even have a statement that pushes your argument in the opposite direction. In such a case, following your logic, you may as well call her bi, but I still don't see evidence to suggest that.

    -Chanchai
     
  19. Drunken_Master

    Drunken_Master Well-Known Member

    how about a fighting game weres theres a season mode with story lines and you can team up with other fighters and shit like that?

    Hwang Jang Lee should of won in Drunken Masters it would be cool the first bad guy to win in a kung fu movie
     
  20. Chanchai

    Chanchai Well-Known Member

    <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

    how about a fighting game weres theres a season mode with story lines and you can team up with other fighters and shit like that?

    <hr></blockquote>


    I might be wrong, but if I understand what you are saying, Street Fighter EX3 for the PS2 rings a bell.

    -Chanchai
     

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