Whiffed Catch Throw Defense

The 2 Flamingo catch throws and /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif are all significant parts of my game... as a result I miss with them often. What do you do when you whiff a catch throw, and Sarah is left holding the bag, so to speak?

AFAIK, a whiffed catch throw has a recovery before you can block, maybe as many as 12 frames. (I don't know for sure. Does anyone? Is it published somewhere? Was it figured out in VF3/4?) So you are vulnerable, but you have options at this point:
<ul>[*]Throw escape guard - My first choice is usually double throw escape guard, such as, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif(release /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif while continuing to hold /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif)[*]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif - If I think my opponent will go for a slow launcher attack to get a float combo, often Sarah's quick punch will interupt them out of it.[/list]
Two options I don't recommend:
<ul>[*]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif - Not something I would recomend. I think you're asking to get MCed by a launcher.[*]Evade throw escape guard - Again, not something I would recomend. I think Sarah is at too much of a disadvantage to evade anything... but I could be wrong as I rarely try this. Am I wrong about this one?[/list]
Does Sarah have any other options from this vulnerable position?


Now, how about from the other direction? You're fighting Sarah and you were lucky enough to be ducking when Sarah tried one of her Flamingo catch throws:
<ul>[*]Throw - Often I just throw her, like when you see a whiffed normal throw animation.[*]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif > Elbow (Combo) or Throw - This is a better option IMO. You will interrupt Sarah's PPP or evade attempt (AFAIK)[*]Dragon Cannon or Knee Float - Go for a big combo.[*]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif into FL - Press Sarah with her own game. (Buffer in a forward dash (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif) to get the /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif to come out from crouching.)[*]/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif into FL - This is something, I just thought of, not something I've ever tried... (please comment if you've done this) The sabaki attack is slow, so it will probably be blocked, but you'd be in FL with the normal advantage. I think it would deflect a punch from the whiffing Sarah, but if she evaded, you would be toast. [/list]
Is there anything else worth mentioning? Do you do something different?

 

This is what I wanted =)

Unfortunately, I'm afraid many of my human opponents don't have much experience against a human Sarah and so they balk at a missed FL catch throw, giving me a few extra frames... this is why I've had success with /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, but I agree with your points Myke. It's like any whiffed attack, IMO, you're completely screwed if your opponent reacts correctly.

The above is my experience... /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif is very rarely interrupted, but I agree it should be, if my opponents were on the ball. When I've gone for /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, I've been counter hit. In this situation, I'd be happy for a throw clash. It changes the state from Sarah having a big disadvantage, to back to 50/50, but I don't remember ever clashing in this scenario.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the best bet is to single or double throw escape with guard. I don't know how large the disadvantage is, but are many attacks guaranteed when it whiffs. Trying to attack (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, etc) out of it should only work against overly greedy or slow reacting opponents.</div></div>
I'm glad you agree with a double throw escape guard... that's what I do most often.

I don't have any hard data, but it just feels the same as when you whiff a moderate attack... having opponents that have not learned how to react correctly is a crutch I won't have forever... hopefully not much longer, so that my game will continue to improve.

edit: I added /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif as a possible (not so good) option vs. facing a whiffed FL throw.

 

It might be about P being faster, but if you go for P Id maybe go for PPK (tricky option full PPKK with delay, last hit being special high and all) or PPd+K or stock standard PK..

I cant for the life of me recommend PPP for anything..

Dunno about d+P. My Akira might for example try to punish with b,f+P which would whiff against d+P.

I really don't know what the disadvantage is with the throws but it might be less than we fear. I know one of my own personal weaknesses is reaction speed to whiffed things, being an old beard as I am ^^


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the best bet is to single or double throw escape with guard. I don't know how large the disadvantage is, but are many attacks guaranteed when it whiffs. </div></div>
Agreed.

Should I face Sarah with Sarah and opponent whiffs FL throws, well, I guess its normally dragon cannon time. I havent really tried it and Im not sure if its guaranteed or not. Often however I tend to choose an option thats not immediate punishment but rather sets up potential damage.. In this case d/f+P,K that is guaranteed on recovery counter I think, and gives +8 on CH. That means gatling gun kick/ FL d/f+K mixup against 10framers even. d/f+P,K often nice thing to do after you evade something too.