WHO'S GOT THE BEST COMBO IN THE GAME

Certainly MC knee, P, b+P, u+P for Wolf does over 100, and works on practically anyone. Sarah's got some 100+ off a normal hit DC (DC, b.b+PK, DC) but it requires good timing and doesn't work on heavies.

 

I know PPPK is pretty hard to stuff up - but really, you can probably handle something involving a joystick and do more damage.

The second post in this thread was the most useful point to this discussion: Wolf gets over 50% damage on a basic knee or b,f+P+K interrupt. It's an insanely damaging combo for such easy commands:
f+K -> P -> b+P -> pounce.
Vs. many characters, a knee interrupt isn't even needed, a normal hit will cut it.

The original question... about the best combo in the game... depends on how you look at 'best'. For practical every day use, wolf's combo and akira's shoulder ram - P - shoulder ram - dbpm are big damage from standard floats, though wolf's is easier. Lau's upknPPPK is like 37% while these are 45-50%. To be fair, lau's is strong because it's also very safe, a blocked upknife-P is pretty much the same situation as a single blocked P. A blocked knee is more serious.

Jeffry also has some very reliable damage from a knee.. . P-headbutt-pounce is essentially the same thing as wolf's combo, but needs lighter opponents or a higher float. knee-K,K,P is reliable for heavier enemies for a big chunk. knee - d+P - f,f+P,P is the standard one and is pretty good.

For the most damaging combo in the game, screw special requirements like walls, wolf wins again: charge P+K -> f+K -> P -> b+P -> pounce is 126 pts. Just his good knee combo after a charged chop. As far as I know it's guaranteed.

For the best wall combo, 141? I think is the most I've seen for akira's famous single palm -> spod -> bodycheck.
I strongly suspect it gets better, but I haven't gotten it. I'm thinking Lau might be able to do df+P+K -> P -> FC,DF+PPP (wall bounce) -> PPPK. Or something. I'll try to figure one out.

 

When I was just starting out with Lau against the computer, there was
a 6th Dan Lau who floated me into a wall with d/f P+K and then
I don't remember what happened after that, I think I passed
out...now I cannot say what the follow-up was but I believe it was
FC P, PPPK because it went on FOREVER. The single most embarrassing
moment I've ever had playing the game. I think it was even an excellent
match ender.

 

i just luuuuuv jeff's 102 damage combo

MC ~ ~

or lau's:

~+ ~ ~ ~+

 

it is true that you can be hit nearly endlessly when lau floats you against the wall, with ppp, ppp, pppk, punce and the like.
it's annoying how sometimes the kumite opponents can do that, because of all their built in info, like
"1 pixel further away and this combo wouldn't have worked"
humans can only do this sort of thing with experience.

 

This is something I've wondered myself, but haven't gotten to
try. I don't think anyone TRIES to float indefinitely with Lau only
because you're following up the d/f P, PPP series with either K or
maybe K+G if you're fast, for most damage, and Lau is still spinning when the opp.
falls, so the timing doesn't work I don't think...I guess it might be
possible to float into the wall, PPP, then maybe go for the d/f P+K superknife and
more PPPK and the stomp. CreeD would know for sure, as he's the resident psycho
combo mad scientist apparently. I suppose all this speculation would
depend on the opponent, because some char. have different animations that affect
exactly HOW they float.

Isn't Wolf the highest rated character in the char. evaluation (I forgotten
what it's called, a tier of some sort) here on VFDC? That is, in terms of
combo strength, damage, difficullty, so on? I can't remember where I saw
that, but it surprised me until I saw pro player Wolfs on videos...what a damaging
pig bastard he is. Just more agile than Jeffrey...that goddamn knee. Gone in EVO,
but Wolf still looks decent, if halved because of that knee loss.

 

ha, psycho combo mad scientist. Well, it's something to do I guess.

The wall adds a little height to floats by making the enemy fall with their body almost vertical, but the opponent's still dropping a little bit after each hit. So wall combos kinda max out around 5 hits.... four jabs and then a low punch/fast mid/low kick. Lau against the wall isn't really much better than lau away from the wall, he can do a PPP then another PPPsweep, but not PPP-PPPK (generally) and nothing more than the six punches.
Characters with kickflips or other strong attacks that hit really low to the floor do better with walls because walls keep the opponent close enough to land these attacks, and a wall bounce prevents them from TRing. So kage can do something like PPP, PPP, ub+K+G rather than the bland PPP, PPPK.

I guess my point is that walls aren't that big of a deal for the wall float combos. The best wall combos usually involve a ground attack that normally you couldn't land on the opponent (but thanks to the wall stagger you can) for example akira's sgpm (wall) --> spod or wolf's P+G (wall) --> P,P,f+P. These wall combos are better than wall float combos because these inflict full damage for each hit, while a wall float combo is still subject to damage scaling. A lau upkn-PPP into the wall, then PPPd+K would do 57+64 points for a nice chunky 121 points of damage, 60% life if the game didn't have damage scaling. Due to scaling though it probably does less than 90 points (45% life)..I can't test at the moment.

Re wolf's tier: I've had a lot of good stuff to say about wolf's easy 40-50% combos in other threads, but aside from that wolf isn't that hot. I wouldn't put him in the top 50% of the characters in VF4 version C. The general concensus is that the top three are lau, akira, and jacky... not necessarily in that order, but close enough for me.

In Evo, an awesome and well-respected jacky player says that wolf is "below bottom tier" in evo... he sucks now in other words. The jacky probably knows what he's talking about, the player has ~85% win rate with several thousand games. My guesses about why wolf might suck now: Knee sucks now, it no longer gives good combos without an interrupt... and if it hits without an interrupt, wolf is at a disadvantage. Another minor problem: wolf can't do his P,b+P,pounce float combos anymore because the opponent can now tech roll after b+P.

 

they can roll after the elbow butt?
man that sucks... /versus/images/icons/frown.gif

 

It's sad that Wolf's knee was toned down so drastically in Evo, while Jeffry's is still as awesome as ever. Jeffry continues to be more and more appealing the more clips I see of him. Maybe this is Sega's effort to put more emphasis Wolf's throwing game more and emphasizing Jeffry's striking?

 

I might be wrong, mike989122471329 from cali says you can roll after slam moves during a float combo, but not just an elbow butt vs. a grounded opponent.
I'll have to test that out if I ever get my hands on evo.

 

maybe you can only roll some slam moves, for exaple akiras stpm is singularily a slam move, but in combos, it wasn't.

 

whaty do you mean about crumbles?
during air combos or just normal hit?

 

crumbles are when the opponent holds his / her stomach and falls slowly forward to the ground.

eg. MC fff+p with akira causes the opp to crumble

 

While you're knee comments are true, I still find Jeffry to be the most boring character in the game. He does have some decent items though.

 

I don't know, I think Jeffrey requires a different mentality...a
wait-for-the-openings mentality...like most heavyweights, he
only needs one or two big hits or throws to finish you. In the boring
category, he's right there with Lau and Akira, maybe Vanessa
though not nearly as much. The difference with Jeff is maybe
it does take a little skill to find the time to attack, like with Aoi. Read
and recognize. I'm just speculating.

 

For jeffry, I think he creates openings more than waiting for them. Wolf seems to be more inclined to wait because he can't set up good guessing games. Jeffry's tools are pretty offensively oriented - the stance into MC K or P or blocked P--> throw. He also has three or four multipart canned combos... do one uppercut, try to bait them into eating a second uppercut. Do the dashing elbow, make them guess between the uppercut or throw. Wolf on the other hand gets reversals and lots of reach on his specialty throws, like the twirl, the running tackle, the KS (?more range than a normal throw?) and the dodge throw.

 

i know what crumbles are already, i just don't know what he meant.

 

Yah, you'd know better than I. I'm trying to think about defense more these days...I don't want to be a masher, and I don't think the offensive blitzing will work against good humans, with any character...seems like when I've played humans, it's better to block and look to see what they're doing. But as you can guess, I'm not very good.

Props should perhaps be given out to Aoi's triple punch/knee string that shoves the floating opp. clear across the ring. I mean, the damage probably isn't so great, since it's Aoi, like 25. I don't know from guarantees, but you can go for the down throw straight after the knee and get a nice percentage total. Simple and accessible at any point. Looks pretty also.