Why do some people consider kage cheap....

Why?...
Thier all jokes about him being cheap...and stuff...

I'm guessing its because of TFT......lol

 

You just answer yourself.

Why a thread?

 

I just want to know why people blow it out of porportion and cry like lil pussies about it.

 

Okay, you're kicking Kage's ass in the last round, about to get a perfect. You're fighting in the middle of a ring. You risk something that is throw punishable but buffer in throw escapes but they get botched (I've heard this in person countless times now). You Get TFT'd and rung out from an insane distance and Kage has 5% health left.

I don't mind really.

 

I don't really think any of the characters are cheap per se. I think with Kage, the issue is that he's a really interesting character that has a LOT of creative potential, but because he's so well balanced, he attracts people who like to win. This goes well with Kage because he actually can cut out all the creative ideas built into the character and just become a conservative killing machine, which is how many people play him.

IMO people who play Kage (a lot of them also like Lau) find that the character appeals to the part of them that wants to be an "assassin". Like Sebo mentioned, Kage can turn the match on a dime, so this goes hand in hand with the assassin urge. Kage is also a Tricky character, which some people don't like, or might think is cheap.

To me, the thing about Kage that's annoying (but not cheap) is that he can win matches without taking much risk at all. This is due mainly to the fact that he has great pokes, throws for decent damage in 4 directions, his primary combo starter is a Throw that's safe on TE, and just about all of his good Combo starting Atttacks are safe: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d_.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/uf.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif, Jumonji /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif & /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif (which have gotten worse, but still safe), /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/b.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif only if you have a Low Back Throw, Shippujin /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif etc. By using safe pokes & Combo starters with decent Throws that are easy to vary, Kage can take wins on what I'd call "poke damage" alone.

Then there are things like the last moment of the Black Book DVD that just make you want to puke...

But, he's not cheap. Like I said, nothing in the game itself is really "cheap", but that doesn't mean people can't play in a way that's lame, boring, selfish etc. I actually had an easier time with Kage in 4 than with many other characters (haven't played much vs. Kage in 5). Sometimes I say "the character isn't cheap, the player is".

 

Hmm...

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No offense man but this is no basis for claiming a char to be cheap. Reason being is that it's not the Kage users fault that you (general) botched your escape especially when you knew that you were at risk of RO at that particular position. If you are not comfortable in your escape, you shouldn't be putting yourself at risk for the throw->RO to begin with. Instead you should be using something more reliable to attack.

 

Other character have tft throws as well......

maybe not as good as kage but good nonethe less

 

Hi Brian, I can see where you're coming from with regards to player style. The key thing to understand however is that a fundamental player's strong point is his/her ability to attack your foundation. Fighting this type of player increases your mental stamina in frustrating situations.

Ex: A Jacky player that uses elbow all day is essentially attacking your inability to deal with that move. Why should he stop using it? The goal is to beat these players out of their set pattern and make them move on to a new tactic - if they have one. You can make a very good judgment on the player's depth this way. I test players all the time with simple, but effective techniques to gauge how I should plan my next attack. One of the biggest mistakes veteran players make is excessive analyzing of their flow charts.

"What cool stuff can do to this guy?"[/size]

or

"I'll do this and then he'll fall for that and..."[/size]


This severely limits the player's ability to focus on the situation at hand and think dynamically. What the player should be thinking in this situation is: "Gotta beat elbow... I'll try this..."[/size] Ironically when you think this way you're no longer stressing over another player's ethic and the "cool" stuff comes to play naturally. You become more flexible as a result. At the highest level a player can break your foundation in the most minute detail such as aiming half circular (safer) attacks towards an opponent's favored evade direction or monitoring tech roll patterns...

I understand what it feels like to want an invigorating match with 3 shining wizards or a couple of stun palms, etc. only to get bombarded with the same attack, over and over again. However, after I beat the habit out of my opponent possibilities open up for my character's movelist. This is where imagination is tested and where setups come into play. Cheers man.

 

Hey, it is just something I observed between a really really good Kage player and a really really good Lau player, both of whom play with TOO much style. The Lau player normal has no trouble with throw breaks.

LOL. But also (imscrubbyo):

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif (and all options afterwards)
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif
/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/df.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif

 

Jerky, you are dope! This is the most clear and concise explanation I've ever read so far on this site. (However I have yet to delve into the other several hundred posts that I haven't read yet)

By the way, quick question but if you could...what is mental stamina?

 

Mental stamina is pretty much a persons endurance in the amount of guessing and thought that go into VF (or any other fighting game for that matter). You could be the best technical player on earth, but if an opponent has you totally thrown out of your game because all you can think about when you play is "Oh God Shun is so cheap, he's unbeatable."[/size] then you've already lost the match without even playing it.

The mental game is much stronger at times than the actual match itself. A good way to explore new options and strategy is to play theory fighter from time to time. Have discussions with your fellow players about techniques that they use and what they think about during play. This allows you to do a paradigm shift in your thought process and see the game in a completely new light. Barriers will be broken, new ideas come to fruition, and you'll no longer feel stuck as you'll be able to react to a situation during gameplay and say to yourself:

"I know what's going on, you're mine now..."[/size]

 

kage ... cheap... pfft he's always been low tier. Now Jeffry, there is a character to be suspicious of.

ps: I'm kidding

 

For the people who are saying kage is cheap nhe is not.......dont ask....

vith-dos....nice blog........varying perceptons, budy creates infinity

 

CAUSE HE'S CHEAP! XD





jk lol

 

I thought his chop in Evo was massively overpowered. Can't evade, can't hit out of with loads of attacks, combos - cheap. Not as cheap as Akira's new one-button-press bounce combos, but cheap.

 

well, I would have to agree w/akiralove in that a lot of kage's combo starters are safe...that alone is much better than TFT IMHO in the long run...on Ring Out stages, you really shouldn't put yourself in a position for kage to be able to ring you out...in tournaments the stage is random so there a bit of luck factor involved as well and therefore I would conclude that it isn't a very consistent way of playing (basing kage on the single factor of Ring Out off TFT)