Why does it take so long?!?!

Discussion in 'Aoi' started by HungOver, May 18, 2004.

  1. HungOver

    HungOver Active Member

    /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif Hi,
    I'm feeling really frustrated. I just picked up Aoi, and I'm getting nowhere fast with her. /versus/images/graemlins/blush.gif I've read all the stuff about how to play her, what her moves do, and how hard she is to learn -- but I still can't grasp her power.
    My question to Aoi players is: How long did it take you to get the hang of Aoi? My question to Aoi masters (Champion ranked, to set a standard) is: How long did it take to master her?
    If I'm in it for the long haul, I'd just like to know what to expect. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Oh, and I just ordered a Hori VF4Evo arcade stick. I'm hoping it'll improve my game a little. Any advice for a new arcade stick user is also appreciated.

    Thanks!
    -Chuck
     
  2. Robio_kun

    Robio_kun Well-Known Member

    hi, my Aoi is Guardian and I am still improving. I can't remember how long it has taken me but before I got evo I had logged up about 2500 matches with her in VF4. I then had to completely relearn her for evo because with a few subtle move changes they changed her whole strategy (well sort of, I used to exploit /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/df.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif too much). It takes time anyway, and you really need to be able to read the other player's patterns.
     
  3. Shaolin_Hopper

    Shaolin_Hopper Well-Known Member

    My newbie opinion: Aoi is the hardest char to get to champion. She is based off mixups, off of reading and conditioning your opponent, and it's hard to 'condition' an AI. You don't have insane combo strength, and getting throws on the AI at the higher difficulties can be very frustrating at times, especially when it ducks right as you throw out the grab. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif You need to be very familiar with the frame rates on your attacks and the defensive options availible after every move, and need to know your opponents' moves so you know which defensive options are the best to use.

    If this is your first VF character and you're playing mainly against the CPU, I'd advise learning the game with another character until you get used to the ins and outs of the game and with all the character's moves- then you'll be able to use her much more effectively. She's definitely one of the harder characters to become proficient with.
     
  4. Robio_kun

    Robio_kun Well-Known Member

    hard? - yes Unmanagable? - no.

    with Aoi it is definitely different playing against the AI because you can't condition them and they don't fall for guard cancells as much. But there are certain things that the AI will do consistently and Aoi is the best placed character to take advantage of these. You just have to differentiate between the 2 strategies (AI and Human).
     
  5. HungOver

    HungOver Active Member

    Thanks guys. Let me ask another question:
    How often do you use reversals?
    I use them whenever I see them coming, but I try not to go out on a limb with them. Any advice on getting them off consistantly? Or is it just a matter of being able to "read the opponent," like you said?
    Oh, and I do have some experience with the game, that's not the problem. I just find it hard to get used to Aoi. I mean, her moves list is small in comparison to a lot of characters (if you take out the throw variations and the myriad of reversals . . . /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif ), but her strategies seem so complex, and there are follow ups to almost every move and counter-hit.
    /versus/images/graemlins/confused.gif Is this the stuff I need to be learning, or is there something intuitive I'm missing?

    -Chuck
     
  6. agios_katastrof

    agios_katastrof Well-Known Member

    She's tough to play/learn, but doable, and quite rewarding. Me, I have a champ Aoi, and had a high king in VF4. But yeah, high king Aoi means jack, because, I also abused b,df+p like no tomorrow.

    Imho, Aoi plays like a 2D rushdown character. That is, she is always in your face. Aoi has a lot of really fast pokes, mixups, etc. And it's hard for the opponents to retaliate, because many of them are safe, and Aoi has a lot of defensive options upon a small disadvantage- all her sabakis, b,b+p+k, reversals, YY, etc., in addition to evades. So all this makes them guard a bit more than often, which is when you do your throws (often out of a g cancel).

    Reversals - actually, they are really easy against the AI. If you are at a slight disadv, there's a pretty strong chance that the AI will fall for a reversal. So do something like f,f+p, and on guard, do a reversal, usually a mid reversal. And learn all the reversal follow ups- ground throw, light down attack, or anti TR, as appropriate. Another really easy reversal is against rising kicks (which the AI does too often). Just do a down reversal, and it's a free b,f+p+k->f+k,k or low throw. Or if they appear to be doing a mid rise, do the mid reversal and b,f+p hit throw. You might guess the wrong rise every now and then, but the risk/rewards is well worth it. This is prob an AI abuse, though. Against humans, reversals are a lot tougher to do, and you are better off doing evades, sabakis, YY, etc.

    But like everybody always says, Aoi is hardly your best choice for the 1st char to learn in VF.
     
  7. HungOver

    HungOver Active Member

    Kool. That's some advice I'll keep in mind -- as I trudge through my skills with Aoi . . . [groan]. /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif
    I guess you guys are saying it'll just take time. Y'know, while I was trying to pick a character, and when I eventually decided on Aoi, I started to miss Shun. I played him again last night, and after I got past my rustiness, I realized just how much I love him! /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif I hope I can get to that point with every character. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
    Thanks again guys. Oh, and if anyone has any advice for an arcade stick newbie, feel free to inform me. I'll need it. /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

    -Chuck
     
  8. Robio_kun

    Robio_kun Well-Known Member

    all of what agios says is true, especially about the rising attacks. Obviously if you do that too much against a human opponent they will stop using rising attacks but you can also take advantage of the fact that they are not going to do them.

    With reversals it depends on the character and the situation. Sometimes it is a matter of guessing and that is when you need to choose between reversals and sabakis etc. Against a player like Akira you are probably better off with a reversal because you are almost guaranteed a mid attack. On the other hand against Wolf you will probably not get a kick or knee at close range and you are better off with a sabaki as it will catch high and mid punches and elbows.

    of course the best time to use reversals is against really obvious attacks; things like vanessa's /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif (although watch out for her cancelling it, you might want to chuck in a throw escape).

    like agios said remember to keep pressing and know that you can bait an opponent especially the AI. Things like /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif /versus/images/commands/db.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif are great because you are almost guaranteed that the AI will respond with an elbow.
     
  9. Robio_kun

    Robio_kun Well-Known Member

    Oh yeah. I suppose one of the big differences between Aoi and Shun is that with shun you are dancing around outside of striking range waiting to take advantage of mistakes. With Aoi like agios and I said you really need to be in the opponent's face all the time, not necessarily in terms of distance but make the opponent feel pressured.
     
  10. HungOver

    HungOver Active Member

    Good stuff. I'll keep that idea of pressure in mind when I practice. Also, I'm really getting the hang of reversals. (My friend and I would compete to see who could do the most when we played Fighters Megamix, so I have a little extra practice. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif )
    I have to keep telling myself to play Aoi first, then Shun. I love him, but I hate that I love him, y'know? /versus/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
    Thanks again.

    -Chuck
     
  11. GaijinPunch

    GaijinPunch Well-Known Member

    If you're playing the CPU, then she's hard to use, IMHO... or at least was on Ver. C. Her whole game is based on deception, and the CPU doesn't fall for it.
     

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