Why is PPPP and PPPK so overpowered?

I know a lot of people will reply saying it's easy to counter etc.

But, I would disagree.

Like right now for example. I'm online playing as Brad, and I'm pretty decent at Brad. A pro? No. Not even close. But, I'm not a scrubby newbie with him either.

None the less, I'm fighting a newbie Lei-Fei player, who keeps joining my games, and every game of his has consisted entirely of the following:

PPPP
PPP+dK


And jump + P when I'm on the floor. (And yes, I know how to quick recover, Just mentioning what he does everytime Brad goes down for a sec) That's the entire game.

Now despite everything I do, I try slips, ducks, combos, dodging, blocking, etc. his stupid PPPP gets in through anything I do. Even when I get priority and am attacking him, I'll land two hits and immediately will be eating his PPPP again before I can land a 3rd hit. Regardless of whether I do my own PPPP or a faster combo, Brad won't do more than 2-3 hits at best before Lei-Fei's PPPP starts up on me again.

Trying to block it, soon as his PPPP is done and I've successfully blocked it and go to offense myself now that I have the advantage, I'm immediately smacked with a new PPPP.

If I slip back, I'm met with the PPPP regardless, dodge to the side, Brad can't do it fast enough before getting hit by the PPPP first. Duck and punch and again, 2-3 hits in before I'm eating his PPPP again.

And by visual alone, Brad's punches seem to come out far faster than Lei-Fei's stupid PPPP attacks which have a lag in between each hit. Yet, somehow, Lei-Fei's punches land faster than anything I can do to try and counter it. I can be in the middle of punching him and he'll just start PPPP'ing me. Yet, when he's doing PPPP to me, I can't do the same back to him, I just take the hits. What's up with that?

I don't get it, and it's driving me insane, because this happens quite often when fighting stupid Lei-Fei players.

Why does a character like Lei-Fei get to spam a PPPP and get major priority while a character like Brad has to do god knows what, but, go out of his way to just try and contend with something as simple as that?

Sorry if this post sounds newbish or anything, maybe I am more newbish than I thought. But, I've been playinv VF since VF2 on the saturn, and got into brad back in Evo which I played to death. And I have 400+ matches to my xbox live record, so I'd like to think I'm at least tolerable with him enough to not be getting killed so badly but something as trivial as a barrage of PPPP's.......

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Lei Fei's PPP is the very first obstacle for noobs to overcome in VF5! It's like toilet training for VF5, I went through this too

It's actually not that complicated, you don't need to do anything fancy or Brad specific, just 1) duck and punch (low punch) him out of the string, or 2) evade and attack him.

Yeah, that's it...

 

Well, I'm a Lau player so I don't have any specific moves for Brad to suggest.
However, I never really have a problem with Lei Feis punches. I usually /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif when he starts and that pretty much stops the opponent from wanting to do it. (sometimes newer players will insist on doing it over and over anyway, which results in a free /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/db.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif for me most of the time)
Or I just back dash quickly and immediatley low sweep. If the opponent tries to /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif they get hit with the sweep- and I get set up for a combo.
Lau's offensive move works to. This one takes more percise timing though- so on the rare occasion I do get hit by the punches its probably because of a failed evade attempt.
Your post is kind of funny though, whenever I see a Lei Fei trying those puches I think to myself EASY WIN!!
Anyway dude, dont get fustrated-- there has to be an easy way to get around the move with brad. Try sweeping or any other low attack.

 

Welcome to Brad.

---

Side step.

/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif, for all of them, Lei has advantage.

 

Duck and low puch? Forgot to mention that one. That's probably the easiest way!! A lot of players talk trash about low punch-but its a useful move in every characters aresnal. Just dont become too dependent on it-- as more experienced players will eat you alive if you try spamming it. But from what your saying, it dosent sound like you are facing high level Lei Feis...so use it and abuse it!!

 

You know every single person I've fought online tonight has been a Lei-Fei player...........sigh

 

some tips:

-use 1P, it goes under highs and will down the opponent on counter, you can follow up with pounce or follow up with 66P+KP,6K

-its easy to time dm/evade on PPPP, just do it after the 3rd P and you can do whatever. be careful though when you play decent leis, if you ss 3rd p they can go into stance and punish you if you evade, but you can just back dash and that will dodge most of his options.

-If you have trouble with stand up on advantage like he always abares with ppp and wont get hit with throws
just go for knockdowns and guaranteed damage so use moves like 6PK, 6p+K,SR/SL P, 3P+KP and do your usual wake up game that way it will reset the pace of the game.

-Use PK to give you advantage, its easy to use and connect like say after dm/evade. even on block your pretty much golden so if he tries to abare hes gonna get nailed

-suggested followups to PK:
*2P+K6P,P,P6PK
*6PK or 6P to ducking K-counter hit-clinch/K+G
*6K to combo on counter or ducking options on hit or block
*1P to 66P+KP
*back dash to 334K
*K+G or 2K+G

-if you need to get space try to back and crouch dash into 334K then use BT PK into watver or use it whenever its very useful

i just watched one of your vid, and you need to evade/DM K more and stop using PPP and try to mix it with PK, PP-duck K, and PPK

well hope that can help you

 

If you have a rising attack (from crouch not from knockdown) that does crumple on counterhit with brad, then you'll be good. Duck punch to stop his offense then do your rising crumple, if he's a masher you'll counter for a crumple everytime, then hit a max damage combo.

I use lei, so i don't know how well that translates to brad, but thats how i destroy noob lei's. 2p stops there offense but not there mashing so I slide to 6p (my rising from a crouch move that stomach crumples on counter hit, and since they never stopped mashing..boom counter hit) yields stomach crumple and I can follow up with whatever I want.
Against better Lei's you'll find they always block the follow up to down punch, in which case you can usually follow 2p with a throw.
BTW I find this works amazingly agianst Noob Brads as well. (most noobs for that matter but brads and lei's the best) as noob brads never want to stop mashing buttons either.

 

When facing a p-spamming lei, i generally just block the first three hits (which puts lei in HS stance where he can't quickly block) and sidestep>combo of choice. The only way a spamming lei could beat that is the low sweep, the jumping sweep, or any of his options from that hai shiki duck move (which they generally don't do) all of which are pretty easy to see coming.

Obviously, any good lei will kill you when you sidestep hai shiki, but most lei noobs love the linear kick stuff. Also, remember that in general lei's range isn't spectacular (especially if he's just spamming p), so you might be able to keep him off you with sidekick, stop kick, and sway back stuff.

hope this helps

 

I used to have trouble with Lei's D stance bullshit. I used to guess high or low between his /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif//forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/g.gif and his low /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif launcher bullshit (/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gifHS/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gifDS/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif). But instead of guarding just evade it as both of these 'noob favourites' are linear.

And if they don't do the Doku kicks and just mash /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif then they shouldn't cause you problems. If they enjoy mashing that much just get one /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif in and then they should be an easy target. Presumably they suck at defense. Just do a knock down move such as /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/f.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif combos, and then just attack before them. The mashers will always hammer buttons regardless and as long as you attack before them, they will always eat counter hits.

If for some reason you find the mashers that defy all logic and manage to guard at the right time, then just /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/d.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif into throw. If Leis guard after the duck punch then the throw will be guaranteed, they can never adapt and start using abare after taking a duck punch so just do it as much as possible and you should fuck them over.

PS - I frigging hate tick throws (doing them and receiving them), but most bad players leave you no other choice.

 

do you consider 2p followed by throw a trick throw Lemmy? I don't. I think it is a solid mix up, and good players should be able to adjust rather quickly. If someone hits me with it a couple of times, then they'll eat a combo next time.

 

2P on hit/counter hit with throw and mid mixup is just basic nitaku, a basic application of the backbone of VF's system. I'm surprised you don't hate VF.

If you get thrown alot after these situations, i suggest you practice fuzzy guard and evade throw escapes.

 

I thought the tick throw was an early SF2 exploit - a quick jab from just the right distance that forced an opponents' block animation without making contact. Since their jab wasn't actually blocked, the attacker had frame advantage and could go for instant throws.

VF does not have this.

 

Thanks for the advice. And by the way, those videos are from when I first started really getting into Brad on VF5 (I played Jacky first for quite awhile). Aka I am a scrubby player in those videos. I'd have posted newer ones but my capture card doesn't seem to want to work on the new comp I bought.

 

Mmm, that definition would hold true for ST. Tick throws in other 2D fighters do match up with Jab throw and 2P throw of VF though.

 

In ST, certain characters can tick throw in Plague's description somewhat due to they have a longer throw range. (Blanka, Dhalsim, M.Bison, Balrog) The thrower will beat their oncoming attack as throws beat out attacks.

This is especially powerful for Dhalsim and Balrog for they have holds which leave them in an advantageous position to attempt again right after the person escapes the hold.

The only way to beat the oncoming throw is with an invincible reversal attack.

If two characters are within throw range the first person to act is rewarded the throw. If they act at the same time it is randomly chosen who gets the throw.

 

I would say a "tick-throw" is a general fighting game setup where you throw a quick attack that's generally followed up with a bigger one but you stop and throw instead.

2P into throw is sort of a tick-throw in that it's hard to react to in time to stop the throw. Even when they added the reverse throws into SF it was still hard to react to someone using jab into throw (forget the throw traps that Shag mentioned because those are VERY hard to stop) and it was even hard to react to someone just jumping in with an attack an throwing immediately instead of attacking just because it all happens so fast.

In VF, standing punch into throw is even harder to stop because you're at a disadvantage as well... Obviously people will answer that this easy to stop, noob tactic, etc, but in all honesty now, it's a simple but extremely effective setup on anyone.

 

If you expect a throw in VF, you can attack even in disadvantage and beat the throw. You don't have that option in SF. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

Of course, while at disadvantage in VF you can avoid throws and most attacks with fuzzy guard and ETEG. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

^That's what I meant to say...^ I wasn't comparing it to the SF tactic exactly, just saying that in VF jab> throw is effective. I'd imagine that flow is used at all levels...

Jab> throw or jab> elbow etc... It's all mind games.

Most of the time I get hit with 2p> throw it's because I felt like I reacted to the 2p too late or got hit and I think I'm in a disadvantage, I'm expecting a mid and they stand and throw <=== That's just basic VF but you could call the jab a tick and the mix-up between mid and throw is what tricks me.

Yes, you can fuzzy, but sometimes I just don't do it fast enough or lose my composure. In VF5, with the 0-frame throw, I often feel like I get thrown and I'm thinking, "YO, I was hitting 2p motherfucker!" But it must be because they 0-framed me a SPLIT SECOND before I hit the P button so I lose.

0-frame means that attack won't always beat throw in the sense that you have to actually hit the button first. You can't hit it any time as they're throwing unless their throw comes out as a grab throw and NOT a 0-frame. With a 0-frame a throw can, sort of, beat an attack only because in special occasions it animates instantly.

One could say 0-frame throw is the fastest attack in the game no???