Why studying frame stats are good

Discussion in 'Junky's Jungle' started by ice-9, Apr 22, 2001.

  1. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    I realize that my responses in the two other threads are making me seem anti-stat. So I guess I'm going to take this opportunity in writing why I think studying frame stats can be very helpful in improving your skills and understanding of the game.

    If you ask any casual gamer what the difference between 8 or 12 frames is (in a 60 frames/second pace) that casual gamer would say "can't tell in real life." To the non-stat or non-experienced VFer, Wolf's punch will seem just as fast as Kage's. Well the answer is that there IS a big difference between 8 or 12 frames. Knowing the statistical properties of certain moves/techniques will improve your general understanding of the game greatly.

    The other big reason is that knowing the frame properties of an attack will allow you to better match up what a frame feels like in a game situation. For example, I can tell the difference in the speed between Kage's elbow and Kage's sidekick and knowing the stat frames behind each move helps me improve my ability to guage those frame stats.

    Combine these two reasons together and it's clear why you should take the time. When someone tells you that you need to input the throw in the 11-12 frame of a low kick counter not only will you know what the guy is talking about but you can actually tell in real game time when approximately to input that throw.
  2. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Oh wait, there is one more reason. Some moves just appear deceptively slow recovering, fast executing, etc. but are not. This is especially true for people learning about the game or learning a new character and it can be frustrating to lose because of this. Looking up the frame stats would be very helpful in explaining why you seem to have such a difficult time throwing Jeffry after blocking his f,f+K, for example.
  3. SummAh

    SummAh Well-Known Member


    I was just abt to mention Jeff's F,F+K as an example...
    deceptively slow...fast recovering...
    I still don't know what is the stat for that move
    I just know not to do something *STUPID* after bocking that move~

    <font color=red>SummErs' 'enemy SPODED, enemy DOWN'
  4. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Oops, one more

    This is sort of implied in my previous posts, but I think it merits added emphasis, and it's the whole concept of things "guaranteed."

    Knowing which counter-attacks/throws are guaranteed is a CRITICAL aspect of the game to know. For example, Lion's elbow and follow-up poke. If you can condition yourself to go for the guaranteed throw counter after blocking his elbow and recognizing there is no poke to follow after you can be oh-so-much of a more effective anti-Lion player.

    It's also important, for example, to know that after blocking a high rising kick Ps are guaranteed damage. Decisive if the opponent has little to no life left.
  5. Jason Cha

    Jason Cha Well-Known Member

    Re: Oops, one more


    Jeff, I agree with you completely, and your example with blocking Lion's elbow is pretty good.

    Not to take away from your point, but it just reminds me of one my favorite techniques - if you're lion and you elbow poke, and your opponent blocks the elbow, most people sit and block the poke as well. After they block the poke, they try and counter with a throw, figuring that they have the advantage. Well, they do, but I don't know if it's distance that requires them to take a small dash in, or if most people input their throw too slowly, but I've found you as lion can usually grab them with a HCB+pg throw before they throw you.

    Since you're lion, you know better than your opponent exactly when you have to buffer in the throw. Once you know the timing, it's cake.

    It's a great technique - works easily most of the time. I remember at MoAT way back in 1997 someone actually asked me if the throw was guaranteed after the blocked poke!

    I suspect it's distance, that people see the blocked poke and think instinctively that they need to dash in a bit. I say this because i can't get away with the HCB throw against wolf players - most of them are smart enough just to giant swng or d/f,d/f throw me without pausing or dashing in.

    Anyway, again, not to take away from Jeff's point, just against Lion particularly, lots of things are throw counterable, but it's just so hard to nab him consistently.

  6. Llanfair

    Llanfair Well-Known Member

    Re: Oops, one more

    Wow - do I remember the face grabs Jason got at MoAT 3.1! A great tactic after elbow-poke. Jason, you always did it after a blocked ff+P as well, no?


    <font color=white> Llanfair the prized <font color=green>cabbage</font color=green></font color=white>
  7. adamYUKI

    adamYUKI Well-Known Member

    Re: Oops, one more

    Interesting stuff, actually. I remember Shota telling me something in TO last year - about how if Lion's knee is blocked and the opponent tries to grab after blocking it, Lion can just buffer in HCB+pg and get him with the face rape.

    After blocking the elbow-poke, do you think it would be more effective to crouch dash in instead of just dashing in and grabbing? Or will the opponent still get grabbed even if he CDs? This would be pretty kewl, as Lion gets whiff animation. I'll try it out later today, probably.

    <font color=red>Jyunen hayaindayo!</font color=red>

    <font color=white>adam</font color=white><font color=red>YUKI</font color=red>
  8. ghostdog

    ghostdog Well-Known Member

    Re: Oops, one more

    Does Lion have any hit throws, like Taka's df+P, f+P+G? I've tried df+P, HCB+P+G a few times. But I think df+P hit as a MC (I'm not really sure).

  9. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Re: Oops, one more

    Heh heh, I alternate between going for a throw or a big middle hit of some sort (few advanced Lions tend to do nothing and just block after the poke). I say big middle hit because I like to do a b+P+K myself...even though it hits high it knocks down and comboable with d+K,K for good damage, and evades a lot of high attacks and maybe even some middle ones.

    ghostdog, Lion has no guaranteed hit throws but if the d/f+P hits as MC the opportunity is favorable (I can't remember what the exact frame stat is...look it up).

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