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Wolf Punishment

Discussion in 'Wolf' started by Mister, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    Since I'm working to the wiki and there's a punishment list to compile i wanted also other wolf's player opinion regardin which is the best way to punish opponent at specific frames advantage.

    We all agree that at:

    +12 and +13 we use [P][K] for standing and [2][P] for crouching.
    +14 we have also [3][P] as option for standing and screw hook for crouching
    +15 we have [4][P] standing and still screw hook for crouching.

    at +16 things start to get big. We have the previous option but also [6][P][P] which is NC on RCH and [6][P][P][+][K] for nice oki options. We have [4][K][+][G] ~ RAW to one of the 3 throws or with the simple follow up [K].

    Altought we have so many options i don't think the RAW can be listed as punishment because the opponent can escape it. However [4][K][+][G][K] is another story because gives us oki options and pushes the opponent far away if we are looking for a better position in the ring or just a ring out.

    I'll keep this topic updated and gather as much information from other players as possibile.
  2. YOMI

    YOMI not a legendary game designer

    For -16 I'm pretty sure any combo from 4P rings out further than 4K+GK, or at least 46P which is 15f, so I'd just say that 4P/46P is the best punish until -17 where you can get 33P+K. For those really sucky moves on block (-20+) there's 46P+K.
    pana likes this.
  3. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    46P is 16 frames but yeah does the job perfectly.
    however i like using 6PP in +16 scenarios because grants me a deadly move setup giving a strong 50/50 choice to my opponent. If they guard high or dodge is the answer to the knee but they will eat the catch throw. If they stay low or try to abare the catch will lose but the knee will do the work. That's why I don't feel to put it out from the punishment list.

    +18 we have of course 6P+K for both standing and crouching opponents.
  4. YOMI

    YOMI not a legendary game designer

    I think 33P+K is better for -18 than 6P+K because it works the same vs. both standing and crouching opponents and the juggles you get from it are either equally good or better than 6P+K I think? They are also both -13 on block so the risk isn't much higher or anything.
  5. pana

    pana Well-Known Member

    -12, -13: PK vs. Standing Recovery, 2P vs. Crouching Recovery.

    -14: Eh. 3P, 2_36P and 63214PP are the options but I'd rather simply doing 3P...

    -15: 4P vs. Standing Recovery, same as -14 vs. Crouching Recovery.
    Best punish vs. Standing is obviously 4P (damage, distance and pressure on TR'ing opponents).

    -16: 4P vs. Standing Recovery, 46P vs. Crouching Recovery.
    Fact that you unlock a move doesn't mean you have to use it (no reason to use 6PP or 6PP+K vs. Standing Recovery), 4P is still the best option vs. Standing Recovery. Use 46 vs. Standing Recovery is opponent's back is facing the wall.
    46P vs. Crouching. I may use 6PP+K, not 6PP; less damage and worst pressure available on TR'ing opponents since it doesn't turn them on the side (6PP+K does). Also, only real reason to use 4K+G if you use it as 4K+GP+G to go for Max Damage (Max Damage available vs. -16 Crouching Recovery is in 4K+GP+G, I said available), 46P does more damage and seems to carry pretty much the same distance as 4K+GK.

    -17: 33P+K vs. both but I'd rather still use 4P vs. Standing and 46P vs. Crouching...
    No reason to use KK instead of 4P, again, fact you unlock a move doesn't mean you have to use it. 62K?! 62K vs. Standing Recovery?! 4P is still better, 46P is better as well.

    -18: 6P+K vs. Standing and Crouching. Wouldn't use 3P+K if the distance from the wall doesn't guarantee 46P from the stagger, it's too risky for only couple points more and at +18 you can safely use a dash before 46P if opponent's back is facing the wall.

    -19: same as -18, 466P?!
    Would also add a -20 to remember 46P+K is there.

    I think that list on the Wiki should be a bit more basic...

    EDIT: 4K+GP+G cause I don't know how to disable :p.
    EDIT 2: Just saw your posts, seen that 6PP note but I still think 6PP+K is better.
  6. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf

    unicorn cz
    I think it makes no sense to use 3P as punishement.

    Vs standing opp, you get like 21 dmg and +1, while PK is 33 and +4.
    Vs crouching, Screw will give you like 47 + knd with strong oki
  7. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf

    unicorn cz
    4P for standing is best choice.
    screw for crouching is what I like most.
    PS: 46P+G can do a lot as it can not be beaten from -15 higher. You are risking all your damage but you can get awesome options in exchange.

    I think here it starts to be situational.
    6PP+K can give you wallcombo or ringout in certain situations. 46P as well.
    personally I will prefere 4P or 6PP+K here as "general" punishement, but I can see reasons for all options. Depends on personal preferences.

    I personally hate 33P+K. Personal reasons :p I also do not like 4K+G P+G in most situations. I will generally stay with 16frame; but you should remember 62K will give you knd in this situation what should be really awesome sometimes.

    6P+K in every situation where 6PP+K or 46P will not be the "situational" choice. 3P+K near wall if opp is not very good in staggering. Also remember KK can easily ring out over medium fences.

    like -18

    46P+K unless you are going for situational choice.

    if you can, do not forget there is 1K+G to use. Simple move for instant 95 damage vs everyone.

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