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Wolf Q&A topic

Discussion in 'Wolf' started by Mister, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    There are some setups where you can get a garanteed low throw, however there's now way to say if they did a perfect tech roll or a delayed one so you don't have any visual clue to get one. Also the weight of your opponent is a factor to keep on sight because there's no universal setup to low throw your opponent.
    Right now I don't remember any setup (mostly because I don't use them since I prefer to use meaty attacks), but tru to get a 6P+K combo with 4K+GK as hender and try an offensive move after wards. Sometimes you may get a low throw to connect if the weight is right and they tech roll with the right timing.
    Anyway I have some notes somewhere, when I find them I'll post about some situation where throw connects with the right conditions.
     
  2. Combolammas

    Combolammas Sheep

    I personally think having meaty setups is the thing to look out more when setting up low-throws on techs.
    Having consistent meaties prevents your opponent from doing any of the things that he could do to avoid the low-throw making it easier to sneak it in (especially since they are probably holding a standing throw escape).
     
  3. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    I agree with Mister. There are 5 frames where your opponent is crouching while there are 4 frames where you can TR, so THEORETICALLY you can setup perfect low throw timing versus every character.

    BUT

    the setups are different based on weight of the opponent... and not only that. in many cases, their timing also depends on which side he techrolls. Sometimes there are even situations where one side techroll allows easy setup while other have different one or even no setup at all. This makes things kinda weird so I prefere (and I believe Mister as well) to use catchthrows in mix with meaties over those low throws.
     
  4. Kamais_Ookin

    Kamais_Ookin Well-Known Troll

    PSN:
    Kyooboona
    XBL:
    Kamais Ookin
    When you find all your notes, @Mister, don't forget to cite your sources - nWo of 1FK.
     
    IcKY99 likes this.
  5. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    nWO of 1FK knew shit about Wolf before Europe told them :p
     
  6. MadeManG74

    MadeManG74 Moderator Staff Member Tournament Manager Silver Supporter

    Wow, thanks for the replies guys!

    I'll be honest, it sounds like it's hardly worth it compared to using meaties and catch throws. It's useful to know I guess, but sounds like it's awfully hard to do with any consistency over 3KG plus catches.
     
  7. Combolammas

    Combolammas Sheep

    I use low throws on techs quite a lot with Goh, it's not that hard to time, and with Wolf 33P+G that's 80 damage vs the catchs 50.

    Still, you have those catches which also beat dashes and throws and some attacks to boot so for Wolf I can see it not being that high on your priority list.
     
  8. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    I looked in the dojo for a quick way to connect a low throw after a combo.
    The combo I was using is [6][P][+][K] > [P] > [1][P][+][K] > [4][K][+][G][K] vs Kage
    after the combo you just need an offensive move and to just input a low throw (not tiger flowsion due to the [3][3] input). It will connect every time kage tech rolls pefectly in whatever direction you dodge or he tech rolls.

    The low throw is garanteed only if kage tech rolls perfectly. Which means that he cannot abare, but only throw escape your low throw.

    This is mainly the reason i don't like to use low throws on wake up. I you have to guess perfectly the situation!!!

    let's take a quick look a the reward: you'r getting tops 65 dmg here for a perfect tech roll. But what are the option for your opponent?
    let get a list of all of them (or at least try):
    1) get up on place -> low throw won't work
    2) do not get up at all -> low throw won't work (it's not even an OS because kage can get up faster than our ground throws)
    3) get up with a delaied tech roll -> low throw won't work
    4) perfect tech roll -> low throw works (finally)

    So in fact low throws on wake up requires so many condition that it's not realistic to use them, while the meaty i usually take adavantage of works in all the scenarios where the oppontent tech rolls and FORCE a 50/50 choice by standing or crouching. If I use [6][6][P][+][G] as catch there's a chance I may still be able to beat the abare of my opponent when they get up.

    However this has his flaws, in fact i CANNOT use a meaty or catch throw if my opponente decides to stand down, in which case I try to use [3][P][+][K] as OS to get a ground attack or the punch that gives me enough room to get my game back.
    Then why not use this 3p+k always? great question, because it doesn't work on all wake up situations. In fact if they tech roll perfectly there's no way I can get my 3p+k to touch them at all if they dodge.

    So now you have two option to use that covers a good numbers of scenarios.

    In conclusion, i prefer to use these 3 tools to keep my opponent choices reduced a the minimu: [K]~[G] > [3][P][+][K] ; [K]~[G] > [9][P][+][G] ; [K]~[G] [4][K][+][G]~[P][+][G]

    However there are some characters that don't allow me to use this setups (like eileen and elblaze) with all the combos so it's up to the player to mess up in the dojo and find what it fits most for them against each character.
     
    MadeManG74 and Unicorn like this.
  9. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    Mister sum it up perfectly and I share his POW. Wolf do not have many good setups to hit that 1-frame window to connect low throw vs TR into guard. There are some and sometimes I go for them - especially using the setup as OS between low throw and ground throw - but the situations are very rare and the benefits are relatevely low in compare with other options.
    I do not wish to say that it is useless, but that the value of this setups is relatively low in compare with other wolf options
     
  10. Kamais_Ookin

    Kamais_Ookin Well-Known Troll

    PSN:
    Kyooboona
    XBL:
    Kamais Ookin
    That's kind of hard to believe, but, if we're going to make extreme statements - certainly EU wolves are just shit, period!
     
    SDS_Overfiend1 likes this.
  11. MadeManG74

    MadeManG74 Moderator Staff Member Tournament Manager Silver Supporter

    Hmm, thanks so much for the input! I'd like to try it out when I get a chance, but from the sounds of things, I would be better off sticking to using a combination of Meaties and Catch-Throws. Just seems like it coves more options and even has superior damaged potential too.
     
  12. MadeManG74

    MadeManG74 Moderator Staff Member Tournament Manager Silver Supporter

    So I've finally got my console and have been in training mode today, I can see what you mean about the timing! I might learn it for some characters I play often, but otherwise it doesn't seem worth it compared to using a meaty/Throw setup.

    Also, is it just me, or is it impossible to set up on El Blaze after doing a full combo (3KG, 9PK, P, 1PK, Screw Knuckle). I couldn't get it to work with OM or DM, seems like he recovers too fast.

    It does work on Brad and Vanessa after that combo, just input a DM and then low throw. Although with Brad I get the side low throw, with Vanessa i get a regular front low throw.

    In terms of Meaties, Previously I'd been using 3K+G as a meaty, perhaps I should change to using 3P+K?
     
  13. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    Mind that after screw hook combo finish, the way they TR (in compare to the way they where spinning after screw) change their recovery time by 1 frame.
    Also their way in compare to way you DM into may get you side lowthrow on some characters.

    There are not many ways how to setup meaty 3K+G and I am pretty sure there is none how to set it up after screw combo finisher.
    Anyway, best (aka most reliable) meaty move is 4K+G. Some other moves (like desc P) can also set up very reliable meaties in some specific situations.
     
  14. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    You're correct. Vs El Blaze and Eileen you may want to use [P] > [6][6][K][+][G] as finisher instead of a screw, and look for a different wake up strategy. Also vs Aoi I use [K]~[G] > [4][4][K][+][G] to waste an extra frame to get a nice meaty (remember that [4][K][+][G] has 4 active frames).

    3K+G sometimes is nice to catch people off guard when they are waking up, but 3P+K it's faster, so you may want to use that move according to the situation. As meaty I love to use [4][K][+][G] and go for the catch mixup later, [3][P][+][K] doesn't give you much afterwards, unless your opponent is close to a wall or edge.
    Also [3][P][+][K] has 3 active frames not 4, which means that you opponent has 1 extra chance to wake up safely.

    however 3P+K is nice for the Option Select. It's a matter of what your opponent does in the end, so keep an eye on his habits and take the best options to limit his actions.


    I Did some test with desc P but it lacks something necessary for a meaty to work with: plan B!
    If your opponent knows a meaty is coming, they will block. With the meaties i described earlier the plan b is a catch, while with desc P i haven't found yet a plan b that makes desc P work. Also it's really easy to see it coming since you have to jump to use it.
     
  15. MadeManG74

    MadeManG74 Moderator Staff Member Tournament Manager Silver Supporter

    Thanks for the advice, I'll try using 4KG on wakeup more often.

    Going to need to practice all these scenarios a bit more. I do enjoy the idea of the guaranteed throw attempt on techrolls for most of the cast though.

    I found even after just screw knuckle you can usually OM and then input Tiger Flowsion and get the low throw as well.
     
  16. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    Yes you can if they tech roll, but only on specific characters. Vs some people you have to use others method to get the right timing, for example you may just do a DM and then do a throw attempt or in other cases you may use a DM canceled with a crouch dash. Try to experiment with these but remember that vs some character it may be impossibile to do a low throw if they tech roll (Irc vs taka you can't).
     
  17. MadeManG74

    MadeManG74 Moderator Staff Member Tournament Manager Silver Supporter

    ^Taka was one of the characters I hadn't tried it on yet actually.
    I tried it against the most common people I play against (Blaze, vanessa, Kage, Brad) and it seemed to work similar on everyone except Blaze.

    I'll have an experiement with it some more, but I think it's something I won't be able to rely on heavily, but nice to pull out every now and then.
     
  18. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    I know man :(

    Actually there IS plan b) that you can use, but in compare to "normal" meaty it is weaker, as it is basically another yomi.
    As plan b), you can do just empty jump into whatever you can think of, starting with throws and catch, going over P 3P or 624P, and ending with 3KG, 62K or even 43P.
    It works - it actually works pretty well. Only problem of this plan b) is it involves more risk that other meaties do.
     
  19. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    I already though about an empty jump but doesn't seem like a viable option. Let's just keep it as it is: a mix up to deal with the distance.
     
  20. Modelah

    Modelah Well-Known Member VFDC Translator Content Manager Taka

    PSN:
    Modelah
    Hey @Mister, @Unicorn

    1. How useful is The Infinite? Do you guys try to hit it at all? I know how it works but have never seen it done before.

    From what I can tell it's a high linear attack so it'll lose to 2P and evade but it's delayable. STUPIDLY delayable! Maybe more so than Taka's 4P+KP, but not as good of course. I guess you could bait a CH with it but it's risky for only 45 (throw) damage, right?

    Seems a waste to not use such a cool looking move though.

    2. How do you usually follow up the European Uppercut CH9P P+G?
     

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