Wolf Q&A topic

Discussion in 'Wolf' started by Mister, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. Airegin

    Airegin Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Airegin42
    XBL:
    Airegin42
    1.) I usually use it to punish abare. As you said, it's super delayable so it fits this purpose. However, it's not the fastest move so it is best used sparingly. If you start telegraphing it, then it's easily shut down.

    2.) If they hit buttons, then it's a guaranteed launcher. Again, this is a move to punish and shut down abare play. There's also some safe pressure you could do to try to set up some ticks.
     
    Modelah likes this.
  2. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    Hey @Modelah
    1) 1PP P+G is not much usefull. You can use it for stylepoints and try to fish for surprising MC once in like out of 20-50 matches if your opponent knows Wolf; or more often, if he lacks Wolf knowledge or is not good in VF overall.
    The problems of this move are simple:
    The 1st hit is -5 on guard, while 2nd, no matter how much delayable, is linear high. Any decent antihig that is 17-f or faster will beat you 24/7 :(
    Even on NH the 1st hit is -2, so their 2P will beat all of your options except anti-low moves.
    Also do not remember you can go for the throw finish on 2nd hit MC only, what somehow sucks :(
    On other hand, the style points for landing this move are high ;)

    2) 9P P+G... Personally, I do not like this attack much. On paper, it looks pretty good. 18-f antilow that is -4 on guard, +4 on NH and gives you throw-followup for 52 dmg togather and +8 situation...
    Problem is that 1st - once again (as with Infinite), you need MC to be able to go for hit-throw followup. And 2nd, this move seems to whif randomly versus many low attacks. Also, I get (not often, but still) randomly hitted out of 9P with some low moves :(
    Given the fact asc K is 19-f (so 1 frame slower only), have better hurtbox and slightly beter hitbox, and KND on both NH and MC, I consider it to be better option when looking for fast airborned attacks.
    But to your question ;) It is +- standard +8 situation, so knee/throw, eventually (if feeling that abare is incoming 46P+K or whatever else you can think of :)
     
    Modelah likes this.
  3. Blitzball Champ

    Blitzball Champ Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Hiten-ryu89
    XBL:
    Blitzball Champ
    Whoa, why didn't I know about this thread a long time ago? I am so lame! Anyway, question. In y'alls opinions, what are considered the worst matchups for Wolf?
     
  4. Modelah

    Modelah Well-Known Member VFDC Translator Content Manager Taka

    PSN:
    Modelah
    Thanks for replying guys.

    It seems these are almost-awesome-but-not-quite-ah-nevermind moves.
     
  5. leftylizard

    leftylizard Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    blue mouthwash
    I know that Jacky is a difficult match-up for Wolf. Jacky has a very strong side turned game,and this is bad news for Wolf because his F-5, Burning Hammer, and neutral throw all leave him side-turned if broken by Jacky. Jacky also has a good anti-evade game. Moves like Jacky's 4pp(tracks one way), 46k+g,and switch-step k discourage evades and option selects like ETEG. Lastly Jacky is a mid-heavy weight , which means he will take reduced damage from Wolf's combos.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
    Blitzball Champ likes this.
  6. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    I find it hard to speak about matchups in VF, as every character can be used in many ways and what may hard counter my wolf may be completely OK for your wolf.
    So, following is just my personal opinion :)

    While matchup vs Jacky, mentioned by leftylizard, is not easy, I find it easier to face Jacky with Wolf that with most other characters in VF. Your weight significantly reduce damage of his juggles - it reduces it to almost 'normal' values that are comparable with what other characters can do to you. And that is HUGE.

    Personally, I consider hardest matchups to be Vanessa and Aoi.

    Vanessa because her intercept stance not only can prevent many (most) of your okizeme setups, but it also can lead to GUARANTEED damage if you do "wrong" juggle on her. Also, Vanessa is strong at mid-distance where you are trying to be and have very strong disengage/reengage setups that are hard to bet in for wolf. Also her ability to punish your slower moves (read: basically all juggle starters) on evade with 90+ combos is high above average. She is also good in breaking basic nitaku, what wolf do not like at all.
    Shortly, Vanessa can be pretty safe versus some of your setups (okizeme and basic nitaku being most notable, but not only situstion like this) while her damage on you is above average when compared to other characters.

    Aoi because while (my) wolf highly depends upon aplying basic nitaku - and she have estremely strong tools to beat it - for example in her sabakis. Also her 2_3p going under highs PLUS sidekicks PLUS at some frames even under wolfs 3P can ruin your day a lot. Plus her ability to avoid guaranteed damage out of Catch 4P+G and low throw 2p+g makes her life significantly easier while dealing with your setups that involves this moves. Put this togather with her other (defensive) moves and you will find that when playing Aoi, you can not play safe, because you lacks good low moves (as you lack low moves overall ;) ) that helps a lot against her (hello, Lion!). You need to take risk every single time you attack her and if you do not pay attention, the potential pain will be higther that potential gain.
    Aoi forces you out of your comfort zone into high risk guesses and it is up to you to find a way how to make them high risk => high reward. If you fail, you will lose BAD - just like me versus Kingo in Prague. But even if you learn, that high risk WILL be involved versus her. Watch this years BTC finals where Kanzen was facing Kofu Megane. Kanzen did a lot of mistakes, but Kofu used soe quite nice tricks on him as well
     
    Blitzball Champ likes this.
  7. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf

    I had a long answer for the 1PP and 9P!P+G moves but it was late and i needed to test more options.

    One thing that i need to verify is to use 1PP to catch dodging opponents (i got the idea fighting the cpu) and see if there's actually some use for that.

    9P is a move that jumps over lows but seems like it doesn't jump from the first frame so you need to know when to use it. Also I love this move vs Shun because it takes straight away 1 DP if it lands (NH or CH). You may also blindly input the follow up (nothing bad comes out if you do in NH) and if you get the CH you have a strong guessing game in your favour:
    1) try a fast mid attack if they don't recover fast enough
    2) dash in and throw
    3) catch throws

    But it all depends on how fast your opponent recovers. So take your time to experiment all the options.

    Now about the matchups.

    I do have some problem with Vanessa but once you know when to chill because she has the advantage altought you blocked a hit, You'll be fine... most of the time. I still hate the way she steals your turn with these moves but once you deal with that you'r going to be ok.
    Another problem is the interception position but it takes away just few oki setups. Just remember that she can use that position only if she's landing facing up and feet towards you. Whatever combo you use with her spinning will take that away (so try to end with the screw the combos). Also if you think she's gonna use that use 62K. If the player loves to do something right after he or she went to that stance, use 9P+K o 62K to stop it. Or if you don't know what's gonna happen, just jump away.
    VS maki i personally use 3K+G and he loves to eat it.

    now vs Aoi
    She's basically a nightmare, but the trick to fight her is to use higher risk moves that cannot be reversed with tenchi. Something like 46P+K, 46P, 62K, K+G. Also if you think she's going to tenchi, BH her until she's going to abare. That's when 46P+K comes into play. The fact that Wolf is heavy, reduces the damage of her combos (which isn't great anyway).
    So only after you educated your opponent to NOT do the tenchi and not abare, you'll see an Aoi playing like a standard character.

    The match up vs Jacky isn't that bad. Sometimes i swear when i see the damage, but Sega had to put a retarded character there. Also most of his string are Mid High, which means you can low drop kick most of the follow ups.

    One match up i think is in Wolf favour is vs Shun.
    Wolf loves to take away shun's drink. We have to wait for the right moment to strike, but once we take that beautifull max damage combo, we may also take 3 DP away from that drunk.

    also vs Eileen is a nice match up for Wolf, mostly because of the weights

    I havent enough experience vs other characters so I don't know if there are secret bad or good matchups, but most of the time it was a matter of the player.
    All the good and bad matchups are a fruit of my experience and may be different for other players.
     
    Blitzball Champ, Unicorn and Modelah like this.
  8. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    Nice post Mister :)
    I will like to add here that asc K is pretty good to use against her, as it takes away multiple other options besides tenchi. You can not spam it 24/7 (but you can not spam any of this moves), but it is safe(r) that the other ones (while the reward is also lower, true).

    Also... Looking forward for that 1PP idea of yours :)

    Oh and on the good matchup note... Personally, I like the vs Lion matchup. While your weight reduces his damage significantly, you can pull out some ridiculous combos on him and he allows some cool oki setups as well...
    Basically, as versus Eileen: the risk/reward works in your favour

    You should have some experience vs Kage under your belt :p
     
    Blitzball Champ likes this.
  9. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf

    VS Kage isn't a bad or good matchup, also vs taka, goh, el blaze, Jean, Lei-Fei and Sarah (at least in my experience)
     
  10. Blitzball Champ

    Blitzball Champ Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Hiten-ryu89
    XBL:
    Blitzball Champ
    Great feedback!
     
  11. Blitzball Champ

    Blitzball Champ Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Hiten-ryu89
    XBL:
    Blitzball Champ
    Now that I think about it, I see what you mean.
     
  12. Blitzball Champ

    Blitzball Champ Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Hiten-ryu89
    XBL:
    Blitzball Champ
    Interesting, because I actually struggle a lot against Aois, Eileens, and Shuns. I never would have thought Eileen and Shun would favor Wolf, but you make some excellent points.
     
  13. MadeManG74

    MadeManG74 Moderator Staff Member Silver Supporter

    Does anyone know what the use is for Wolf's 8+K+G Enzugiri kick?

    It's one move I can't really see much point in. A friend suggested it might be good for crushing wake up attacks, but I've never really experimented with it.
     
  14. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf Bronze Supporter

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
  15. Whatevs_Dawg

    Whatevs_Dawg Member

    PSN:
    Whatevs_Dawg
    Can I get some advice on the Jean matchup? I've been playing a Jean player offline recently.

    I'm having trouble dealing with 66p mixup between 3kk and 2kk. Also 66p at mid range is hard to deal with, I'm having trouble stepping it and on block the pushback makes most options whiff, he likes to backdash after but doesn't always. 1(pk) (won't let me type plus symbol) catches backdash but loses to step and depending on spacing is blockable after backdash I believe plus throws will whiff also depending on spacing. At midrange he also likes 1(pk) which is basically the same situation as 66p on block.

    On my wakeup he keeps optimal spacing and threatens with 1(pk) which beats both wakeup attacks on reaction. So if I wake up normally or with a roll he is there waiting to mixup with 66p or the high guard break into the just frame combo.

    44pk catches backdashes really well and he can mix it up to catch evades.

    Best I could figure to fight back is at midrange catch him inching forward with giant swing/bh, backdash at disadvantage then whiff punish, midrange backdash 66p and whiff punish, threaten with throw to set up counterhit 6k.

    Sorry for rambling but this match up is getting to me. A big problem is I can't cover step and backdash outside of throw range. He does a few other things but this is what I remember off the top of my head.
     
  16. oneida

    oneida Long Arm of the Lau Silver Supporter

    PSN:
    oneida_vf
    XBL:
    oneida1
    try 3k to catch backdash.
     
  17. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf

    If you predict 66P the raw is right there to eat that attack and grab jean with the neck holder. However if you don't feel confident enough you have to just block and then try to use 46P. It is -15 on block BUT will catch back dashes and it's only 16f execution, which means you will beat every attack from the jean player (66P is -8 on block). Once he starts to block that's where the throws and catches comes into play.

    So first use the longest attack you have, like 46P. You may also try 3K like oneida said, but I didn't test if it hits. Sometimes I do dash in 6P P+K but a dash in is gonna make you lose your advantage.

    Also few tips against Jean in general:
    - 6PPK is a mid high high string, remember to duck after the elbow and try to punish every whiff with 4P and a combo.
    - Try to notice if he has any habits about the charging attacks. If he goes for the 2KK option, block low and punish the whiff of the high kick, If he goes with the mid mid low, try to dodge and punish from the side.

    What I think Wolf teach us all is to be patient, improve your defence and to maximize the damage when you get the chance.

    If you need any other tips let us know. Also if you have any other inputs about your opponent habits write us so that we could think about a counter plan.
     
  18. Combolammas

    Combolammas Sheep Content Manager Goh

    3KK and 2KK isn't really the scariest mix-up he could be doing. If you choose right and he doesn't hitcheck remember you can duck the second kicks and punish with a launch.

    Wolf has some pretty nice range normals. For backdashes if you are close enough you can also try 4K which gives a backdash stagger on top of the ones already mentioned.

    RAW does catch 66P if he is predictable with it. If you block 66P you could also maybe backdash yourself and see if he autopilots anything you can punish.

    Does he throw much or is he simply playing range games?

    I'd also wager (a small dash into) 66P+G could be a pretty good move to throw out once in a while.
     
  19. YOMI

    YOMI not a legendary game designer

    PSN:
    buttoi-man
    Yeah 3KK and 2KK is noob stuff, just duck.

    Against 66P Wolf actually doesn't have that many options, in almost all cases he must take a moderate risk since the problem with Wolf is that most of his moves have pretty a big recovery time. 66P is -8 on guard and gives you nitaku just like 98% of Jean's moves on block, but it has a lot of pushback even from pretty close range meaning Jean has a lot of movement options afterwards in addition to abare. You can try to take your nitaku and do moves like 6K or 4P+K to beat abare, but both of these moves have enough recovery that if Jean succesfully evades he gets at least a guaranteed PPK to your side into KND, but of course you can play it safe with moves like 3P or hcb P. Obviously you can try to throw too but if he's mashing you'll lose. If Jean tries to backdash after your only real choice is 46P which is hella unsafe on block as 4K, 3K, 3P+K and 66K+G all whiff and will most likely end up you getting punished into KND or a combo.

    So you pretty much just have to read his game and make a guess, even though YOU have the frames. Isn't Jean fun?
     
  20. Whatevs_Dawg

    Whatevs_Dawg Member

    PSN:
    Whatevs_Dawg
    Thanks for the tips guys, YOMI pretty much described what my main problem with the matchup is. Backdash evade beats most options that aren't 46p and evade beats 46p. It's a similar situation if I block 1(pk) but not as bad.

    About 2kk/3kk are you saying just block low and eat the mid? Since the 2kk hits counterhit you can't duck the high.

    The real mixup off 66p is the guard break high jf combo and the mid jf combo right? The jean I play is only doing 3kk/2kk until he gets the jf down.

    He does like to throw but mostly forward which I break. Other moves he likes to use are 3pp, 66(pk), 2(kg), 1(kg), (kg). I'll try and apply the advice you guys gave, I think a big thing was that I was getting frustrated last time we played trying to deal with 66p.

    Also a related question against Jean what do you guys like to do at round start?
     

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