Wolf's Version C Command List errata

Discussion in 'General' started by Nutlog, Apr 26, 2002.

  1. Nutlog

    Nutlog Well-Known Member

    In keeping with the spirit of Deniz, I figured I'd go ahead and start this one off...


    Arrow knuckle Real is not a charge attack, but is indicated as one. Hence it requries no "charging" to guard crush.

    Arrow knuckle forces crouch on hit, but is not noted. Goes without saying that it also causes a "slam" in a float combo, but using that in a float is so hard, you may just want to leave it out.

    The running shoulder attack is a special type of mid. It can be blocked crouching and gives the old tumble over animation for Wolf when he gets blocked.

    The f+K+G rolling sobat does not require a MC to stumble, like the note currently says.

    The d/f+K+G thrust kick guard crushes on blocking it, but there's no note.

    The wall throw version of the P+G throw needs a wall stagger note on it. Right now it looks like they're exactly the same.
     
  2. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Arrow knuckle Real is not a charge attack, but is indicated as one. Hence it requries no "charging" to guard crush.

    Corrected. Also corrected the Sober note to DP - 2 instead of -1.

    Arrow knuckle forces crouch on hit, but is not noted. Goes without saying that it also causes a "slam" in a float combo, but using that in a float is so hard, you may just want to leave it out.

    Added Force Crouch note.

    The running shoulder attack is a special type of mid. It can be blocked crouching and gives the old tumble over animation for Wolf when he gets blocked.

    How should I denote this? I think I'll go with Special Mid (M*) since that's how it appears in the White Book, even though, strictly speaking, it's not M*.

    The f+K+G rolling sobat does not require a MC to stumble, like the note currently says.

    Corrected.

    The d/f+K+G thrust kick guard crushes on blocking it, but there's no note.

    Actually, the df+K+G causes a Stumble on guard or hit. Updated.

    The wall throw version of the P+G throw needs a wall stagger note on it. Right now it looks like they're exactly the same.

    Note added.
     
  3. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    1. The running shoulder attack is a special type of mid. It can be blocked crouching and gives the old tumble over animation for Wolf when he gets blocked.

    How should I denote this? I think I'll go with Special Mid (M*) since that's how it appears in the White Book, even though, strictly speaking, it's not M*.

    This has still not been dealt with yet on the list. In addition to simply amending the hit level to M*, I think it would be a good idea to include a note saying something like "Tumbles over a Crouch Guarding Opponent causing Wolf to recover Down."
    2. The wall throw version of the P+G throw needs a wall stagger note on it. Right now it looks like they're exactly the same.

    Note added.

    I'm a little puzzled. A joystick icon normally appears when a wall stagger occurs. When doing this move, I see no icon. So what makes this a wall stagger? In any case, I suggest that an "Opponent Remains Standing" note be added.
    3. The PPf+Pb+P causes a Flop and it also needs a Sober (DP -1) note.
    4. The f+P Body Blow causes a Stomach Crumble on a Stagger Hit.
    5. The Slam note for the f+PP Dragon Fish Blow should be amended to a Slam on Air Hit note.
    6. The f,f+P Axe Lariat causes a Flop.
    7. The HCB+P Screw Hook causes a Crouch Stagger.
    8. The b+P Elbow Butt needs a Sober (DP -1) note.
    9. The Guard Stagger notes for the fully charged b,f+P Shoulder Attack and the b,df+P Arrow Knuckle - Real should be updated to High Guard Stagger notes. The b,df+P also needs a Head Crumble note.
    10. The D,df+P Vertical Upper does a Stumble on MC.
    11. The db+P Comet Hook should be updated with a Crouch Stagger note.
    11. The uf+P Tomahawk Chop does a Slam on Air Hit.
    12. The f,d+K Low Drop Kick does a High Guard Stumble and a Stumble on a non-MC hit.
    13. The reversal levels for the following should be updated to SK: df+K Face-Lift Kick; b+K+G Heavy Toe Kick; b+K+GK Heavy Toe Kick Side.
    14. The "To Ground" note for the uf+K Drop Kick should be corrected to "Recovers Down if it doesn't Hit," just like the note for Jeffry's u+K+G Raiding Drop.
    15. The fully charged version of the P+K Level Back Crush needs its own entry, instead of a mere mention in a note. Although it has the same numerical data (damage, frame rates), unlike the uncharged version, its Hit Level is M, and its reversal level is MP, and it does not Sober. Also, its Guard Stagger note should be corrected to a "Stumble on Guard or Hit" note.
    16. The f+P+K Tomahawk Flash and the df+K+G Thrust Kick are H* special high attacks.
    17. I believe the K+G Neck Cut Kick should have a Side Knockdown note. For consistency with Jeffry's Command List, its "To Down position" note (as well as the one for the b,f+K+G Front Roll Kick), and the "To Ground" note for the (run) F+P+K+G Jumping Lariat, should probably be revised to read "Recovers Down."
    18. Wolf "Recovers Down" after the b+K+G(hit)P+G Toe Kick Stunner and after the uf+K+G Missile Kick.
    19. The b,f+K+G K+G Roll Kick does a Slam on Air Hit.
    20. I must be doing something wrong with the (u|d) P+K+G Side Step Catch attacks; I get damage of 50 when near, and 60 when far, not 40~70. Also, they can be escaped, and this should be noted, since it is not a normal attribute of catch throws.
    21. The (run) F+P+K+G Jumping Lariat causes a Flop.
    22. I think a new reversal class needs to be established for the f+K+G Rolling Sabat. It is not MK as listed. Akira and Aoi can reverse it with an LK reversal, but the command for the reversal is db+P+K! Note that this also means a new reversal should be added to Akira and Aoi's lists as well.
    23. The uf+P+G Frankensteiner and the (back) uf+P+G Frankensteiner should have notes saying "Recovers Down if it doesn't Hit."
    24. The slower (80 damage) version of the HCF+P+G Giant Swing needs a Sober (DP -3) note. Both versions of the HCF+P+G Giant Swing, and the HCB+P+G Wrist Lock Throw do 20 less damage if the opponent succeeds with an IR.
    25. I believe Wolf recovers back turned from the HCB+P+GP+G Pendulum Lariat.
    26. It is possible to IR at the end of the KS throw and at the end of the (catch) b+P+G Slingshot Front Suplex (damage remains unchanged).
    27. All of the HTC follow-ups to the f+P+G Catch and the b,b+P+G Roseway Tackle can be escaped, and this should be noted (since Wolf's other HTC throws can't be escaped).
    28. The (change) f+P+G Push leaves the opponent back turned.
    29. The damage for the (change) P+G German Suplex should be corrected from 70 to 60.
    30. There is no (mk) b+P+K Captured reversal in the game. There is also no 30 damage (left mk) db+P+K Dragon Screw either. Wolf's only MK reversal is a 40 damage db+P+K reversal, which should probably be called by the name "Captured," since its animation is identical to the HK Captured reversal.
    31. Unlike what normally occurs with reversals, Wolf takes 20 damage when he executes his (hk) b+P+K Captured, or his db+P+K MK reversal; this should be noted.
    32. The (asc) P Step Hammer does a Slam on Air Hit.
    33. The (mid) P Rock Punch can be reversed. Its reversal level is MP.
    34. Both versions of the Double Claw need Stagger notes; the (face down) version also leaves the opponent back turned.
    35. Neither the listed back turned d+P Back Low Hammer midlevel attack nor the back turned D+P Rolling Hammer high attack exists. Wolf's (back turned) d+P and D+P are identical, and its hit level is L (it's not reversible). It is thus also a low hit that recovers high.
    36. The (back turned) d+K Back Drop Kick and the (back turned) D+K Back Drop Kick both need Foot Crumble notes. The d+K version also is a low hit that recovers high.
    37. The Jumping Knee wall attack needs a Guard Stagger note and a Head Crumble versus non-defenders note.
     
  4. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    Another comment:
    38. The f,d+K Low Drop Kick does no damage to a high guarding opponent, and this should be noted. The only reason it's an L* attack is because it causes the high guarder to stumble.
     
  5. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    Reversal levels for Wolf's rising attacks:
    All low rising attacks are SW, with two exceptions: Face down feet towards, no roll (no delay) is LK (and also does a Foot Crumble); face down head towards, no roll (no delay) is I believe not reversible. It does a Foot Crumble as well, and looks similar to Akira's Kosoutai -- a two legged kick forward while Wolf is parallel to the ground balanced on two hands, ending with a sort of backflip up.
    Midlevel rising attacks:
    Face up feet towards: All are MCR.
    Face up head towards: All are SK.
    Face down feet towards:
    1. no roll (no delay): MK
    2. delay: SK
    3. longer delay: MCR
    4. sideroll: MK
    5. backroll: SK
    Face down head towards:
    1. no roll (no delay): MCR
    2. delay: MCR
    3. sideroll: SK
    4. backroll: MCR
     
  6. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    Some more comments:
    39. The df+P Elbow Drop is not GP reversible.
    40. The damage note for the (run, near) F+P+K Running Shoulder Attack should be updated to "Damage decreases with distance" and the note for the far version should be deleted. Also, based on actual observation, the damage range for the attack is 20~32, despite the listed maximum of 35.
     
  7. Deniz

    Deniz Well-Known Member

    41.I had said: I must be doing something wrong with the (u|d) P+K+G Side Step Catch attacks; I get damage of 50 when near, and 60 when far, not 40~70. Also, they can be escaped, and this should be noted, since it is not a normal attribute of catch throws.

    I've gone back and looked at the (/versus/images/commands/u.gif//versus/images/commands/d.gif)/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif Side Step Catch attacks more closely and have found out what really happens. If a Side Step Catch hits the front of the opponent, Wolf does a 60 damage throw that looks like a variation of his /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif Brain Buster. If it hits the opponent's side, then Wolf does a 50 damage Sliding Leg Scissors. If it hits the opponent's back side, then Wolf does a 70 damage German Suplex. Which side of the opponent is hit does depend on Wolf's position, but Wolf's starting position will not necessarily correspond with the position of the opponent that is hit. For instance, Wolf may be standing in front of the opponent when the Side Step Catch is initiated, and yet still end up hitting the opponent on his/her right or left side, thus causing only 50 damage with a Sliding Leg Scissors type throw.
    42. Wolf recovers low from the /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif(charge)/versus/images/commands/d.gif Shoulder Feint, which should be noted.
    43. The (run) /versus/images/commands/F.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif Running Shoulder Attack moves should have notes indicating that Wolf tumbles over a crouch guarding opponent, to the Down position.
    44. I believe that the following additions should be made in the Esc column: The /versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif Neck Cut Kick should have an "f" and the /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif Rolling Sabat should have a "b."
    45. The two /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif Low Punch Cut reversals should have notes indicating that Wolf recovers low if they whiff. Also, the (right lp) variant when successfully executed leaves the opponent in a back turned position, and this too should be noted.
     
  8. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    > How should I denote this? I think I'll go with Special Mid (M*) since that's how it appears in the White Book, even though, strictly speaking, it's not M*.

    This has still not been dealt with yet on the list. In addition to simply amending the hit level to M*, I think it would be a good idea to include a note saying something like "Tumbles over a Crouch Guarding Opponent causing Wolf to recover Down."


    Updated.

    >> 2. The wall throw version of the P+G throw needs a wall stagger note on it. Right now it looks like they're exactly the same.

    > Note added.

    I'm a little puzzled. A joystick icon normally appears when a wall stagger occurs. When doing this move, I see no icon. So what makes this a wall stagger? In any case, I suggest that an "Opponent Remains Standing" note be added.


    If you go through the PS2 trial training mode, it will introduce Wall Staggers to you. The "Wall Stagger" note shall remain.

    3. The PPf+Pb+P causes a Flop and it also needs a Sober (DP -1) note.

    Updated.

    4. The f+P Body Blow causes a Stomach Crumble on a Stagger Hit.

    Updated.

    5. The Slam note for the f+PP Dragon Fish Blow should be amended to a Slam on Air Hit note.

    Updated.

    6. The f,f+P Axe Lariat causes a Flop.

    Updated.

    7. The HCB+P Screw Hook causes a Crouch Stagger.

    Updated.

    8. The b+P Elbow Butt needs a Sober (DP -1) note.

    Updated.

    9. The Guard Stagger notes for the fully charged b,f+P Shoulder Attack and the b,df+P Arrow Knuckle - Real should be updated to High Guard Stagger notes. The b,df+P also needs a Head Crumble note.

    Updated.

    10. The D,df+P Vertical Upper does a Stumble on MC.

    Updated.

    11. The db+P Comet Hook should be updated with a Crouch Stagger note.

    Updated.

    11. The uf+P Tomahawk Chop does a Slam on Air Hit.

    Updated.

    12. The f,d+K Low Drop Kick does a High Guard Stumble and a Stumble on a non-MC hit.

    Added note "Stagger on Normal or High Guard Hit". The 'Stumble' effect should be used specifically for the falling backward onto the rear animation. Stagger can be more general.

    13. The reversal levels for the following should be updated to SK: df+K Face-Lift Kick; b+K+G Heavy Toe Kick; b+K+GK Heavy Toe Kick Side.

    Updated.

    14. The "To Ground" note for the uf+K Drop Kick should be corrected to "Recovers Down if it doesn't Hit," just like the note for Jeffry's u+K+G Raiding Drop.

    Updated.

    15. The fully charged version of the P+K Level Back Crush needs its own entry, instead of a mere mention in a note. Although it has the same numerical data (damage, frame rates), unlike the uncharged version, its Hit Level is M, and its reversal level is MP, and it does not Sober. Also, its Guard Stagger note should be corrected to a "Stumble on Guard or Hit" note.

    Updated. Using "Stagger" instead of "Stumble".

    16. The f+P+K Tomahawk Flash and the df+K+G Thrust Kick are H* special high attacks.

    Updated.

    17. I believe the K+G Neck Cut Kick should have a Side Knockdown note. For consistency with Jeffry's Command List, its "To Down position" note (as well as the one for the b,f+K+G Front Roll Kick), and the "To Ground" note for the (run) F+P+K+G Jumping Lariat, should probably be revised to read "Recovers Down."

    Updated.

    18. Wolf "Recovers Down" after the b+K+G(hit)P+G Toe Kick Stunner and after the uf+K+G Missile Kick.

    Updated.

    19. The b,f+K+G K+G Roll Kick does a Slam on Air Hit.

    Updated.

    21. The (run) F+P+K+G Jumping Lariat causes a Flop.

    Updated.

    22. I think a new reversal class needs to be established for the f+K+G Rolling Sabat. It is not MK as listed. Akira and Aoi can reverse it with an LK reversal, but the command for the reversal is db+P+K! Note that this also means a new reversal should be added to Akira and Aoi's lists as well.

    Argh! I'm still boggled as to why Sega made it this way. Anyway, I'll class this move as a "Jumping Kick" JK for the sake of the Command List. I'll update the legend and Akira/Aoi's lists accordingly.

    23. The uf+P+G Frankensteiner and the (back) uf+P+G Frankensteiner should have notes saying "Recovers Down if it doesn't Hit."

    Updated.

    24. The slower (80 damage) version of the HCF+P+G Giant Swing needs a Sober (DP -3) note. Both versions of the HCF+P+G Giant Swing, and the HCB+P+G Wrist Lock Throw do 20 less damage if the opponent succeeds with an IR.

    Updated.

    25. I believe Wolf recovers back turned from the HCB+P+GP+G Pendulum Lariat.

    Updated.

    26. It is possible to IR at the end of the KS throw and at the end of the (catch) b+P+G Slingshot Front Suplex (damage remains unchanged).

    Updated.

    27. All of the HTC follow-ups to the f+P+G Catch and the b,b+P+G Roseway Tackle can be escaped, and this should be noted (since Wolf's other HTC throws can't be escaped).

    Updated. Also corrected name from "Roseway Tackle" to "Low Sway Tackle".

    28. The (change) f+P+G Push leaves the opponent back turned.

    Updated.

    29. The damage for the (change) P+G German Suplex should be corrected from 70 to 60.

    Updated.

    30. There is no (mk) b+P+K Captured reversal in the game. There is also no 30 damage (left mk) db+P+K Dragon Screw either. Wolf's only MK reversal is a 40 damage db+P+K reversal, which should probably be called by the name "Captured," since its animation is identical to the HK Captured reversal.

    Tidied up Reversal section. It's now as follows:

    Captured :: b+P+K on Left or Right HK :: 40pts
    Captured :: db+P+K on Left or Right MK :: 40pts
    Dragon Screw :: db+P+K on Right SK :: 40pts
    Dragon Screw :: db+P+K on Left SK :: 30pts

    31. Unlike what normally occurs with reversals, Wolf takes 20 damage when he executes his (hk) b+P+K Captured, or his db+P+K MK reversal; this should be noted.

    Updated.

    32. The (asc) P Step Hammer does a Slam on Air Hit.

    Updated.

    33. The (mid) P Rock Punch can be reversed. Its reversal level is MP.

    Updated.

    34. Both versions of the Double Claw need Stagger notes; the (face down) version also leaves the opponent back turned.

    Updated.

    35. Neither the listed back turned d+P Back Low Hammer midlevel attack nor the back turned D+P Rolling Hammer high attack exists. Wolf's (back turned) d+P and D+P are identical, and its hit level is L (it's not reversible). It is thus also a low hit that recovers high.

    Updated.

    36. The (back turned) d+K Back Drop Kick and the (back turned) D+K Back Drop Kick both need Foot Crumble notes. The d+K version also is a low hit that recovers high.

    Updated.

    37. The Jumping Knee wall attack needs a Guard Stagger note and a Head Crumble versus non-defenders note.

    Updated.

    ________

    Another comment:
    38. The f,d+K Low Drop Kick does no damage to a high guarding opponent, and this should be noted. The only reason it's an L* attack is because it causes the high guarder to stumble.


    L* can also means that you take no damage if you defend it high.

    _______

    Reversal levels for Wolf's rising attacks:
    All low rising attacks are SW, with two exceptions: Face down feet towards, no roll (no delay) is LK (and also does a Foot Crumble); face down head towards, no roll (no delay) is I believe not reversible. It does a Foot Crumble as well, and looks similar to Akira's Kosoutai -- a two legged kick forward while Wolf is parallel to the ground balanced on two hands, ending with a sort of backflip up.
    Midlevel rising attacks:
    Face up feet towards: All are MCR.
    Face up head towards: All are SK.
    Face down feet towards:
    1. no roll (no delay): MK
    2. delay: SK
    3. longer delay: MCR
    4. sideroll: MK
    5. backroll: SK
    Face down head towards:
    1. no roll (no delay): MCR
    2. delay: MCR
    3. sideroll: SK
    4. backroll: MCR


    Updated. Omitted longer delay due to lack of frame data.

    _______

    Some more comments:
    39. The df+P Elbow Drop is not GP reversible.


    Updated.

    40. The damage note for the (run, near) F+P+K Running Shoulder Attack should be updated to "Damage decreases with distance" and the note for the far version should be deleted. Also, based on actual observation, the damage range for the attack is 20~32, despite the listed maximum of 35.

    Updated.

    ________


    41.I had said: I must be doing something wrong with the (u|d) P+K+G Side Step Catch attacks; I get damage of 50 when near, and 60 when far, not 40~70. Also, they can be escaped, and this should be noted, since it is not a normal attribute of catch throws.

    I've gone back and looked at the (/versus/images/commands/u.gif//versus/images/commands/d.gif)/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif Side Step Catch attacks more closely and have found out what really happens. If a Side Step Catch hits the front of the opponent, Wolf does a 60 damage throw that looks like a variation of his /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif Brain Buster. If it hits the opponent's side, then Wolf does a 50 damage Sliding Leg Scissors. If it hits the opponent's back side, then Wolf does a 70 damage German Suplex.


    I've seen different throws performed from the front. One being identical to the (catch) b+P+G Slingshot Front Suplex (60pts) and another being the P+G Face Crush Chop (40pts). I've yet to see the b+P+G Brain Buster variant. So I've removed the damage for this move (as in the white book) and simply noted the damage range in the notes column.

    Which side of the opponent is hit does depend on Wolf's position, but Wolf's starting position will not necessarily correspond with the position of the opponent that is hit. For instance, Wolf may be standing in front of the opponent when the Side Step Catch is initiated, and yet still end up hitting the opponent on his/her right or left side, thus causing only 50 damage with a Sliding Leg Scissors type throw.

    This is kinda stating the obvious, no? I mean, it's a "dodge attack" afterall. Where you end up also depends on what the opponent is doing.

    42. Wolf recovers low from the /versus/images/commands/b.gif/versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif (charge)/versus/images/commands/d.gif Shoulder Feint, which should be noted.

    Updated.

    43. The (run) /versus/images/commands/F.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif Running Shoulder Attack moves should have notes indicating that Wolf tumbles over a crouch guarding opponent, to the Down position.

    Already updated. You mentioned this in item no.1.

    44. I believe that the following additions should be made in the Esc column: The /versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif Neck Cut Kick should have an "f" and the /versus/images/commands/f.gif/versus/images/commands/k.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif Rolling Sabat should have a "b."

    Updated.

    45. The two /versus/images/commands/d.gif/versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/k.gif Low Punch Cut reversals should have notes indicating that Wolf recovers low if they whiff. Also, the (right lp) variant when successfully executed leaves the opponent in a back turned position, and this too should be noted.

    Updated.
     

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