Wolf's weak points (Formerly in FT Wolf Thread)

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GodEater said:
As plasma indicated his game relies on Yomi and Oki.
GE

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Dude this is such bullshit, Relying on Yomi (duh).. relying on Oki (garbage). Every character relies on Yomi, and wolf's vs. wake up game fucking sucks compare to character like Jeff, Akira, or even fucking Goh. Play any good Akira he will put 10x more pressure on you when you wake up, and he does it with EASE! Wolf's game is about 1 thing: throws. In Evo Wolf's throws are great, but he's moves fucking blow. People just focus on beating your throws, and you are fucked. Please don't tell me b,f+pk / f+k / b+kg,pg are so great, cuz they all suck. Saying a character's game is based on yomi is basically say he sucks and you need skills to win. And that's the case with wolf. Wolf Oki... LOL, d/f+pk dodged/blocked fucked, d/f+k blocked/dodged fucked, f+pg ducked fucked, high/low throws missed/escaped fucked, shrm blocked/dodged fucked, screwhook blocked/dodged/hits normal fucked, toekick blocked/dodged fucked, f+k blocked/dodged/normal hit fucked...
Look at akira, b,f+pk blocked -2, knee blocked only throwable, f,+p blocked wtf +1! f+p,b blocked/misseno risk, d/f,d/f+p any hit KO! . please ok... wolf whatever.

who gives a fuck if he stands up after toekick stunner. screwhook beats d+p in open stance.. that's great. more damage on throws ends other than f+pg, that's really great. more damage on low throws that ends other than d/f+pkg, that's great. A move that you can toss out without being fucking owned as soon as it's blocked, that's a godsend.

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

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Wolf Oki... LOL, d/f+pk dodged/blocked fucked, d/f+k blocked/dodged fucked, f+pg ducked fucked, high/low throws missed/escaped fucked, shrm blocked/dodged fucked, screwhook blocked/dodged/hits normal fucked, toekick blocked/dodged fucked, f+k blocked/dodged/normal hit fucked...

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Shang, we could generate a list similar to that for almost every character. The power behind Wolf's Oki game is inherently connected to how good the Wolf player's yomi. With solid yomi, Wolf can apply excellent pressure at high damage. Sure, if your shoulder ram is blocked, you're not in a good situation, but neither is Akira when his Shoulder is blocked as well, or his knee, or his Yoho. The comparison is pointless, really.

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

Although I agree mostly with you Llanfair and think Shang is just a whiner /versus/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I have to agree that some of the moves listed for Akira are MAIN tools for attacking such as DFS (great fucking move)

To Shang: WTF man... seriously you feel that a move which can possibly destroy an opponent's life bar (ss does potential 100 fucking pts man) shouldn't be punished - learn how to play Wolf and stop that crying.

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

I think it's true that while Wolf's moves have more damage potential, it still sucks that the risk is greater compared to characters like Akira, where risk is lower and above average to high damage. Of course we could wish Wolf to play more similarly to the such of Akira, but this also would mean less character variation. As much as I like Wolf over Akira, it's just unfortunate that it's a bit harder to win and pressure as a Wolf player compared to other characters. I guess that's what Shang is trying to get people to understand, if you don't like the big risk/reward ratio that Wolf offers, it's frustrating to play that way if you like Wolf. That's all.

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

How is this pointless? Every attack Akira is faster, safter, move rewarding. Knee vs Knee, Shrm vs Shrm/yohoo, DFS/SDE vs screwhook. If you cannot see this then you are blind man. Yes you can make the argument that Wolf's strong throws should offset the strength of his attacks... and it should. But the difference is so great that the imbalance is obvious. If you know how to deal with Wolf's shit you can win with just average Yomi. That's that.
And Jerky... please do the world a favor and go practices how to TR the fucking b+p slam hit you dumb ass. b,f+pk does 100points on you because you are too stupid to TR. The pounce isn't even a real combo. And for your information noobie, it only works on counter hit and it does shit to heavy. And don't fucking start with the Oh what if it hits a wall. god akira's b,f+pg into a wall gives more than a 100point.. wtf is the balance there?

add: srider wolf's big reward big risk is a myth. as far as attacks go, wolf is all risk little reward. FUck you need a counterhit to get someshit done. Good players don't give you counter hits my friend. It makes no fucking sense to be -1 when your shit hits normal.. Is the world gonna end if knee normal hit is +1???!??! for god sakes it hit him!

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

Omg, I think I just cried a silent tear over Shang for playing Wolf. What a great guy and what a sacrifice.

/KiwE

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

Hmm...sounds like rampant complaining to me. Lots of wah wah wah, Akira rocks, wah wah, Wolf sucks.

Unfortunately, the numbers are what they are. Deal with it. Complaining does no good - it certainly won't change the frame stats. /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Y'know, I need a counter hit to get a good combo with Pai as well. I need to work my ass off to win consistently and I have to rely a lot on good mind games and developed yomi. I happen to find her game most rewarding because of this, to be honest. Same deal for your Wolf, Shang - embrace the bullshit and harness it to win more. Sorry, dude - but that's just the way the game is. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<font color="yellow">.cheers.</font>

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

You could make complaints about stuff like that for any character. Where is Shun's elbow? Where are van's floaters? Where are pai's mid nh combo starters? When is shun at an advantage?

If you consider what a character DOESNT have as a neccesary part of your game, then that character probably isn't for you!

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

You people are all fucking morons. Pai has a sidekick, Pai has a 11 frame punch, Pai u/f+k.
SiYkO: Shun has d,d/f+p, enough said please go fuck yourself.

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

Siyko, plz stop talking out of your ass again.

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

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and wolf's vs. wake up game fucking sucks compare to character like Jeff, Akira, or even fucking Goh

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hmm, wolf's oki game i think is still pretty decent, take his b,f+p game for instance. opponent gets up out of hit range..

1. charge up as opp whiffs and own their ass (with a small launch followup)

2. cancel charge and dash in with a throw or frankensteiner if opp gets up without an attack or tries to evade.

wolf's side kick is also a good oki tool, and it's half circular.

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also, wolf has a good rising attack interrupter, his SS is pretty easy to time than say jeffry's knee, and it gives you a big chance for high damage.

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btw, the F5 doesnt look like it's worth the bother unless it's catch proporties are like KS, i mean it's only 5 more damage.

thanks for the info guys!

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

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wolf's vs. wake up game fucking sucks compare to character like ... Goh.

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/KiwE (Wolf has no trouble with Oki, Shang has trouble with Wolf.)

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

wolf sucks

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

From what I've seen, Shang has A LOT of fun playing wolf...you simply haven't lived until you've seen Shang "go back to school...go back to school...go back to school...">low throw.

There's nothing wrong with wanting a favorite character of yours to have a little long overdue getright.

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

Yeah but saying stuff like Wolf has bad oki compared to Goh is just insane. Guess once you hear the "why -1?????!" and "Why is screwhook -10? Sega????" lines on irc the 1000'th time something just snaps /versus/images/graemlins/grin.gif

/KiwE

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

Can you get a combo after d/f+k? err no..
Can you get decent damage if d/f+k hit? err no..
Can you beat all dodges with d/f+k? err no..
Can you eat a free throw after d/f+k? err YES!

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

Can Pai get a combo after d/f+k? err no..
Can Pai get decent damage if d/f+k hit? err no..
Can Pai beat all dodges with d/f+k? err no..
Can Pai eat a free throw after d/f+k? err no...

But 3 out of 4 ain't bad. /versus/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<font color="yellow">.cheers/</font>

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

IMHScrubbyO, the big grappler types have always been somewhat more difficult to use, and disadvantaged imho (e.g., Ryu & Gief). I think game designers always tend to over handicap the grappler to compensate for their damage potential. From the grapplers I've played, just about the only grappler that was on fair grounds was Alex of SF3, and may be Potemkin. But grapplers are also a lot more fun to use than the more balanced characters, imho.

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

Llan:
Pai's sidekick is a 16frame move that staggers, with only -4 on block, +8 on MC and it has a PUNCH follow up. Topping with her 11 frame punch you can barely counter with an elbow class attack without having to worrying about the punch follow up. Wolf would DIE to get Pai's d/f+k,p!
Please just listen to the poster above for a change. He speaks the truth. Fuck you all who thinks vf is so freaking balanced!

 

Re: Wolf: Final Tuned

I never said Wolf's stats are justified, and I don't understand why you disagreed with my statement of Wolf being big risk / big reward. Are you telling me you disagree that F5 being 75 damage and -8 if escaped is high risk / high reward? If you disagree, then you are either saying 75 damage is low reward, and -8 is low risk, not to count the possibility of being juggled.


I've clearly restated what you said that you can't do damage without risking big. There is no point to do a comparison between character because I think by now it's clear that VF is not exactly balanced, only that it's possible to win any match up, which is not saying much I understand. I guess it's just a matter of personal taste, what you like to play in this game. For me, Wolf's numbers makes it fun, it's just hard for me to understand why you play Wolf if you hate his stats so much, just play Jeffry.


If you want justified numbers for a character, then the only way to do that is to make everything the same. I see your point of making wolf's knee lift or +1 on normal hit, but despite how much people talk about it here on VFDC, changes could go either way. They can make it any number, and people will just have to play it the way it is.

Why stop at +1, why not make it a stomach crumple or head crumple on normal hit, why not give him unescapable fast GS? Since we know VF is not balanced, why even care? I guess what I'm saying to you, Shang, is that if you already know VF is not balanced, why even bother talking about fairness?