Wolf's weak points (Formerly in FT Wolf Thread)

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

shit there goes my chance at $50

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

Hit checking screwhook is not impossible lol. I do it on a regular basis, daiginga does it on a regular basis. Any decent Wolf player who understands how screwhook works will do it on a regular basis.

Segaru and Edo plays VF with each other on a regular basis, attempting to reversing a mid kick at an obvious opportunity when you have more than double the opponent's life is not exactly what I consider good yomi. Even LPC (which only worked one out of two times in his match against Edo) was attempted after a normal hit knee, which is nothing special at all. I attempt tons of mid kick reversal against my friend that I play with often because I know his habits, and it's also not hard to observe after a few matches against almost any player. Again, as said before, seeing one or two clips doesn't say anything at all, why not look at the tactics that other players use against Segaru (and that he falls for them) to understand that concept.

If you want to talk about being cocky and being a showoff, a better example is Minami Akira and 801 Akira entering a BT 3 on 3 event with only a two man team..... and winning it.....

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

Yeah Minami is a showoff x10.

He has eaten blayant immediate throws on wakeup(yeah that's right IMMEDIATE here you go KiwE) just because he wants to go right into stepping.

I remember Segaru hit Minami with:
+ (normal hit), + (normal hit), GS. He just wants to step soooo bad.

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

Srider, no offense, your post is just arrogant. No matter what beef you have with KiwE, don't downplay Segaru's play.

KiwE, I think most people can judge for themselves...group think or not.

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

ass-9, are you stupid? Srider's comments are much more accurate that this idiot kiwe's... Maybe you just want to say something because you feel like you need to be heard, but no one gives a fuck about what you think. Take your stinking opinion and shove it up your ass with your 2 incher and get some pleasure out of it. Where did you get the idea he was downplaying Segaru's play you idiot? You fucking piece of dogpop. Most people can judge shit, half of the people here wouldn't know if that was CPU play if it didn't have the names on it. You are a fucking moron Ass-9, why don't you take some time a get vfdc a new host so people can actually read the stuff when they want to and not 10mins after you fucking rich spoiled shitface. You are the type of idiots who beat a good player once and think you are better than him, not knowing him he was probably thinking about why is this girl going with this stupid, ugly, short fucker i'm playing right now.

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

I'm not taking sides, this is just from experience with playing with the Japanese people. I remember even playing against Kyasao and Ryan Hart, (both Kage players) where they went for middle kick after the middle kick stagger. It's in no way downplaying Segaru's play, infact, it's more of a praise in that he can react and exploit the other player's habit in a flashy way, and it just goes to show the amount of experience and yomi skill Segaru possesses.

I don't understand why that is downplaying his play. He could have easily opted for other options with his guessing, but instead he chose the options that make you go "wow" when you see it work. Maybe when I said I don't consider it good yomi it is in a different context. I replied in the sense that it wasn't a "guess" as most people tend to use it. Yomi really means reading the opponent and predicting what they will do. So really those two specific situations are fairly common exchanges, especially since they play each other pretty frequently. The thing that makes it an example of Segaru's amazing play is the fact that even though they are common, most players probably won't try it, so in turn the Wolf player won't consider it as part of the play, but being able to tell when they do occur, it shows the amount of experience and yomi the player possesses. I just tend to think on a higher degree when people say good yomi, like being able to do things out of the ordinary that is so random that it seems illogical and make it work.

Maybe you just thought I was taking sides, but in fact I am not, especially given the recent dealings that Shang and I had, I wouldn't be on his side for no simple reason even if I were to pick one. People on irc can probably vouch for what I said here.

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

That is the most passive unaggressive reponse to someone dissing you I'd ever heard. Damn Srider you're such a pussy how did you get such a fine Ass Japanese Chick to date you? Oh by the way I'm still waiting for the photos. /versus/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

As a dedicated Kage player, and as someone who has played Ryan and Kyasao and many other Japanese players, let me tell you that sidekick stagger > heelkick is NOT a common tactic.

There are theoretical reasons for this, but I won't go into them.

Segaru's LPC and heelkick reversal (a risky, low reward tactic) are pure examples of yomi, and I just can't believe you're labeling it as common. That's just...wrong.

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

I would like to know some of those theoretical reasons. Besides, like I said in my previous post, the reason they are not common is because they are some of the obvious options. Also keep in mind that the mid kick reversal doesn't only reverse heel kick, but it can reverse the side kick as well.

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

OK, but don't expect me to follow-up after this message. Trying to explain how a theory works in VFDC can be a hair-pulling exercise, for really no benefit.

1) It's so easy to struggle to block the heelkick out of sidekick stagger, it's not even funny. Let's reserve "near guaranteed" for situations better than that!

2) If I wanted damage because I didn't think the defender would struggle fast enough, I would go for .

3) To heelkick without dashing forward on a sidekick stagger is to telegraph that it's safe to just block. I can do this a little, I bet Segaru can do it better by a lot.

4) When opponents have low life vs. your half life, they usually want to go for big attacks. Heelkick is not a big attack.

All of the above means that heelkick out of sidekick stagger is not a common tactic, and certainly not the obvious choice. Edo probably went for a heelkick because, as you pointed out, at that range it's relatively safe not realizing that Segaru would be audacious enough to reverse.

In all likelihood Segaru was anticipating a + instead of a heelkick, which has all the points that you listed but is safer and doesn't knock down. Actually, sidekick stagger > dash a little > + is probably the more common sequence as it has all the benefits and will force the opponent to guess if a throw is coming.

But realize that Kage could've done anything: dash in throw, catch throw, , +, delay attack. What is the probability that Kage will go for an immediate heelkick? Pretty low, and Segaru should be praised--not downplayed--for his gutsy guess.

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

[ QUOTE ]
ice-9 said:
and Segaru should be praised--not downplayed--for his gutsy guess.

[/ QUOTE ]
What ass-9 is trying to say is that Segaru should be sucked and not stroked. Dude you must be a retard, he just said he wasn't downplaying Segaru, which part of that don't you understand..
There's one word that ass-9 and the shangster share in common.. that's the word "bitch".. Ass-9 likes being one, and the Shangster just likes doing it. i swear if Ass was my domestic partner I'll bitch slap him 24/7/365.

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

FYI:

[ QUOTE ]
Segaru and Edo plays VF with each other on a regular basis, attempting to reversing a mid kick at an obvious opportunity when you have more than double the opponent's life is not exactly what I consider good yomi. Even LPC (which only worked one out of two times in his match against Edo) was attempted after a normal hit knee, which is nothing special at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Not exactly what I consider good yomi"..."Nothing special at all"...those were the comments that "downplay" is refering to.

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

[ QUOTE ]
In all likelihood Segaru was anticipating a + instead of a heelkick, which has all the points that you listed but is safer and doesn't knock down. Actually, sidekick stagger > dash a little > + is probably the more common sequence as it has all the benefits and will force the opponent to guess if a throw is coming.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is exactly what I was saying in my first post. Since some of the safe options for side kick stagger are middle kicks, that's why it was good for Segaru to go for the mid kick reversal. At the life Edo was at, he wouldn't have went for a +, since he would have most likely just get a normal hit, or dash in and elbow or throw. Cause as you pointed out that it was easy to struggle out of the stagger, so Segaru could have done many things to potentially beat the close in options.

The thinking is that at that distance, if Segaru didn't struggle fast enough, he would have gotten hit by the hell kick and it would have given Edo a knock down with which he could potential win the TR game or a rising game. I understand that at low life people tend to go for the big attacks, so what would be a big atttack at that situation? Heel kick is certainly bigger than , , , +, or +. It's the only one of those options that will knock down on normal hit, and is also one of the safest at that distance.

I understand those points that you have given for not using the hell kick, but it's after I've thought about many of those reasons that I've said the heel kick was an obivous thing to do. I've said before that the heel kick hits slow strugglers, if you are going to only consider the best/worst case scenario, then there is no point to even consider any of these reasons/options, since then there is no yomi, only number game. + or the follow ups wouldn't have ended the match, and if blocked, the second hit would be lp'ed. Using the heel kick is good since if blocked, Edo can just duck at that distance for the low kick, or just back dash. Dashing in and force a nitaku would be too risky at that life, especially against Wolf.

Can you not see by now that by arriving at that conclusion through all of those thought process, it shows Segaru's experience and yomi ability? He's only coming back around of the circle of the paper rock scissor game, it's good yomi, but it's not something that's uncommon to do. I'm not trying to downplay his skill, i'm just not overly praising it.

A good example of the above can be seen in the vf4ft_ote4y1901.asx clip. It's the same Kage vs Wolf scenario except it's played by Yorou Kage.

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

There's really no point to overanalyzing this. You know what? Sometimes you just do shit.

Edo didn't think "Well, we are at low life, so maybe I should do a big move, but I don't want to do something punishable...hmm I think I will do ++! It's safe at this distance, half circular, kcocks down, and does 30 points of damage! Perfect, now I will execute ++!" *Edo inputs ++*.

Here is what Edo was thinking: "++...if he blocks I backdash".

Here is what Segaru was thinking: "Midkick? I'll reverse that shit! Eat it, bitch!"

The mid kick reversal was a good guess, because ++, +, and + are all very commonly used pokes that are relatively safe from long range. Now can everyone just stop talking about it because it's not a big deal.

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

*Applauds Dandy_J*

As much credit as you want to give the top players, not every move they do is a carefully calculated descision... sometimes people just stick a move out there. Fighting games can be just as intuitive as they are technical sometimes... and this isn't a bad example. Both players used technically "weak" options.

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

after an SK stagger from kage, i normally see df+p often.

*shrug*

i reckon what segaru did, any tired-of-kage-bordemness player would do.. since he has a million and one mid kicks to choose from afterall.

*shrug again*

 

Re: Hey, I'm curious:

[Gaahh, removed by poster for lateness!!]