wolf's wrist lock variation question

Discussion in 'Wolf' started by fagan, Apr 24, 2002.

  1. fagan

    fagan Well-Known Member

    Ok the wolf variation throw of the wrist lock (HCB P+G, P+G) , why should I ever do this move? It does less dmg than the regular version; it also doesn’t have nearly as much RO potential … is there something I’m missing? (next to the fact that this move looks really cool) … thanks
     
  2. Nutlog

    Nutlog Well-Known Member

    Honestly, if buffered right, the pounce after it is practically guaranteed, so that will usually bring the damage up to on par with the normal, plus with the wierd angle of the pounce, blocking a low rising from there is a guaranteed low side throw and dodging the high rising correctly gives a back throw instead of a side throw. You can also go for the option of using the pickup instead of the pounce, but it takes a bit of practice to get the timing down on it so that it's nearly inescapable.
     
  3. fagan

    fagan Well-Known Member

    thanks ... I knew there was a good reason to use this move (I'm just not good enough to find it myself I guess /versus/images/icons/smile.gif
     
  4. ice-9

    ice-9 Well-Known Member

    Also use HCB+P+G > P+G > d+P+G to R.O. the opponent in a different direction...that's pretty much the only time I use the P+G variation.
     
  5. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

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    Another reason (or two) for doing the hcb+P+G,P+G is that the opponent can't QR/TR from the fall, and because of their knockdown position their mid rising attack (in place, side roll or back roll) will be linear which is ripe for a Dragon Screw reversal (db+P+K). After the Dragon Screw, any following mid rising attack will be reversable as well, again due of the knockdown position, so bonus points for scoring two reversals in a row!
     
  6. Mike90210

    Mike90210 Well-Known Member

    Are there any guaranteed follow ups to hcb+P+G,P+G,d+P+G? The opponent is turned backwards and he seems too far to throw or strike. Should I just go for the pounce instead of the pickup? Any help would be appreciated.
     
  7. fagan

    fagan Well-Known Member

    try using b+P ... it will knock down right away but i think it's guaranteed
     
  8. BK__

    BK__ Well-Known Member

    continuing myke's point on the anti-TR/QR advantage, the HCB+p+g without the extra P+G means an extra pounce is not guarenteed, not to mention the damage of the move is decreased quite abit if the opp does TR/QR.

    without the variation, it's best to do it near a wall for a guarenteed pounce (and sometimes and floor pick up depending on your position), however the varied p+g allows a guarenteed pounce and yes, a floor pick up depending on your timing.
     
  9. hiro

    hiro Well-Known Member

    Well, b+P is not guaranteed after pick-up. An opponent can always recover to shorten the time length in which he can move. It is still true that Wolf has the advantage, especially considering the fact that it takes 5 frames for the opponent to turn around. Basically, you go for toe-kick stunner or throw. (Or a choice of d/f+K or d/f+P+K.) You might wanna wait a bit if you are trying to throw him.
    Also, if the opponent bumps into a wall and the distance between you and the wall is not too short, toe-kick stunner is guranteed. (It causes Kabe Yoroke, "wall stagger" without a lever sign so that the opponent can not recover.)
    If you are too close to the wall, then the opponent can recover (i.e. there will be a leve sign.) In that case, you can go for toe-kick stunner or throw. Catch throws are very effective, too. (In general, when you pick up the opponent even from the front and make him bump into a wall, catch throws are effective. Especially, "Catch". THe opponent has to do low attacks in order to avoid Wolf's catch. But, in that case, you can go for toe-kick stunner.)
    Wolf carries the opponent in the direction of the opponent's back after Pendulum Lariat. (Note: This does not mean much to people who started the game from VF4, but in VF 2&3, when you throw an opponent, the animation was made according to your stance, not the opponent's stance. e.g. Lau's b,d+P+G threw the opponent into the direction of Lau's stomach (or rear leg.) But, in VF4, the animation is made according to the opponent's stance. e.g. Lau's b,d+P+G throws the opponent into the direction of the opponent's stomach, not Lau's! It does not matter to many players, but if you are playing against Lau, Aoi, Wolf, etc. who have throws into sideways, you can avoid ring-out by paying attention to your stance. You couldn't do it in 2&3.)
    Lastly, I can write what I do sometimes after the pick-up. If I guess that the opponent will turn around with low-attacks, then I do u/f+P->f+P+G. Also, to make fun of the opponent, after the pick-up, I do d+K (this actually reaches the opponent) and then d+P+K if I think the opponent will turn around with some kind of low-punch. (This significally depends on whom you are fighting against.)

    In general, I don't see any reason to use regular HCB+P+G(wrist-lock throw) since Pendulum Lariat -> u+P takes more. If there is a wall, it takes even more damage. (or at least potentail damage.) The only time I would use HCB+P+G is when I want to carry the opponent to the front. e.g. if the opponent is right in front to ring edge, or a wall.
    I think Wolf players have to know about this throw especially because b+P+G is risky to use in a guranteed situation. (i.e. after escaping b+P+G, low punch is guaranteed. If the opponent decide to attack directly, you have to either defend to avoid getting hit or attack in order to avoid throw. That's a lot of risk.)


    Hiro
     
  10. hiro

    hiro Well-Known Member

    Oh, by the way, the damage of HCB+P+G is 70. And, the damage of HCB+P+G, P+G ->u+P is 50+25 =75. Against the wall, Pendulum Lariat -> pick-up -> Toe-kick Stunner takes 50+62 = 112. They are all guaranteed. (Toe-kick stunner can be done from the opponent's back, just in case if someone doesn't know it.)

    Of course, if you decide to go for a throw or catch, the potential damage can be more.
    Say, if you make Catch, then d/f+P+G ->KK (need to hold forward) is guaranteed except for Pai, Jacky, Shun, and Vanessa. And, the opponent will hit the wall after KK, and thus, u+P is guaranteed. (It is not guaranteed if the opponent hits the lower part of the wall.) In this case, the damage is 50+ 30+20x0.8+25 = 121.

    Hiro
     
  11. Mike90210

    Mike90210 Well-Known Member

    Wow really great info...just what I was looking for.
    Thanks!
     
  12. BK__

    BK__ Well-Known Member

    well, i know this does'nt have much to do with the wrist-lock throw, but hiro mentioned the toe kick stuner being guarenteed of a wall stagger?

    incase ppl are curious, i set up a short wolf combo vid in the media section which uses this nicely... (b,df+p<opp blck> ~ f+p<crumble> ~ ground pick up<opp's face into wall> ~ toe kick stunner)

    it's got some timing involved, but i'm quite sure it's guarenteed..
     
  13. Nutlog

    Nutlog Well-Known Member

    I thought the wall stagger, toe kick-stunner was common knowledge. Sorry, for not mentioning it earlier. The only thing is that it's not guaranteed for all wall staggers (namely the fairly common P+G wall stagger), only MC wall staggers, for the most part. So far it's part of Wolf's highest damage "combo" (actually the highest in the game, so far). Though, since it does have the pendulum lariat, it's not technically a combo.

    MC Charged P+K, b+P, HCB+P+G, P+G, g, d+P+G (wall hit), b+K+G!P+G = 177 damage.

    Fairly situational as you do need the opponent's stance correct to make sure that the pick-up smacks em into the wall, but hey, when in doubt d+K. It's pretty much guaranteed after a face-down pick up and keeps em back turned, so there's no retaliation.
     
  14. Nutlog

    Nutlog Well-Known Member

    btw, unless I'm just way off base here, tech-rolling the regular wrist lock does not lower the damage, you just recover faster (like the KS). I've seen the wrist lock tech rolled a lot of times, but never seen the damage decreased.
     
  15. Robyrt

    Robyrt Well-Known Member

    177 damage... whoa. I haven't been able to get more than 150 after a P+K->b+P->P+G wall hit, but then again I'm not very creative. /versus/images/icons/tongue.gif
     
  16. BK__

    BK__ Well-Known Member

    "btw, unless I'm just way off base here, tech-rolling the regular wrist lock does not lower the damage, you just recover faster (like the KS). I've seen the wrist lock tech rolled a lot of times, but never seen the damage decreased."

    no, sorry, your right.. i must have been thinking about something else at the time, though i'm almost sure tech rolling can decrease the damge of certain throws like jeff's b+p+g? either that or it was a bug that time.
     
  17. Nutlog

    Nutlog Well-Known Member

    Yeah, there are a few like that (jeff's b+P+G, jacky's d/f,d/f+P+G, Kage's regular TFT...maybe Lion's f,f+P+G can't remember)
     
  18. Throwmasta

    Throwmasta Well-Known Member

    Hiro,

    With proper timing, is the pickup after the pendulum lariat GUARANTEED? I've tried it on the cpu, and every single time it whiffs. Is it only effective against human opponents, or will it work on the cpu as well; if the timing is perfect? If so, what is the timing for the /versus/images/commands/d.gif /versus/images/commands/p.gif+/versus/images/commands/g.gif after pressing the /versus/images/commands/g.gif button (to turn around)? I read in another post (one of Ice 9's, I believe), that you are the only one who can get it consistently, so any help would be appreciated.
     
  19. Throwmasta

    Throwmasta Well-Known Member

    Oh, and one more thing. You said that the pendulum lariat has more damage potential than the wrist lock throw because you can follow it with u+p. U+p isn't guaranteed afterwards. So isn't the wristlock throw better to use for someone who isn't good with the pick up after the pendulum lariat?
     
  20. Sudden_Death

    Sudden_Death Well-Known Member

    hi, im not hiro.

    but i think i can answer this one. the ground pick up after lariat is indeed guaranteed with proper timing, the cue i look for is that i press G as soon as they guy hits the floor, kinda like buffered, and also i just tap it, then i immediately do d+p+g. also, lariat + u+p is also guaranteed so yes more damage.

    hope that helps

    as always, correct me if im wrong.
     

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