Yomi Innate or Nurtured?

did you read 3 lines again - /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

 

Less. Its that important.

 

Personality would be a bad metaphor to use, somewhere in the neighborhood of 90% of your personality traits are in place by age 3. the only innate thing is the minds ability to process info and hands ability to relay the decision. you can't get out what isn't put in. but you can hone your reaction times and use experience and practice to maximize those abilities.

 

We have a quack in the house.

 

I gladly hand out prescriptions if you need it

 

Ok, um, first of all, I'd like to remind everyone that the translation for yomi is "reading." Not "voodoo jedi mindreading." BTW, I actually speak Japanese, so unless its your native tongue, you don't have the credentials to dispute this.

Furthermore, lets be straight about this... Is your version of "yomi" so consistent that you could, over the course of lets say 1000 guessing games, nail it with significantly better than the statistical odds? Lets say you're fighting several different players, and you give a 3 choice guessing game. Lets assume the players are all skilled enough to punish if you guess wrong. Will you land it better than 33.3333333%? I'll bet you don't.

Seriously, theres a difference between "oh, this guy spits out low punches like its his job," "this guy can stagger recover like a mofo but always blocks high after recovery," or "this guy spams ppp at the beginning of every match" and "well, he did this, last time, and adapts at the rate of 2 iterations, and since ive landed two already i should switch it up, but since the adapt switch up cycle has already happened twice, maybe he'll have caught on and expect for me to switch it up and so i should go with the same again, except he'll know that i know that he knows that i would switch it up blah blah blah"

Seriously, if the guy isn't a noob, and you just landed 4 guesses in a row... chances are you just got lucky. You didn't KNOW he was gonna do such and such a thing, you guessed it. Either theres a pattern or there isn't. If theres no pattern to justify your move, you're guessing. And unless you guess right EVERY time, then you don't have this ability, because it doesn't exist. It's not his 7th layer yomi to counter your 6th layer yomi that lost you the match, its random move that beat the other random move, and you probably could have just spammed 2p and won it that way, but you got all mystical with it.

And also, if anyone tries to say "oh it exists, but you just don't know about it... its a technique that some of us have and by the way we can also shoot mind bullets" Then you're obligated to play against me for like 10 matches. If I win more than you, you're disproven. Because a person with jedi power should be able to beat someone without. right? I don't do this 7th layer "yomi" stuff, only random moves, exploitation of player skill deficiencies (like stagger combos), wiff punishment, and flows, and traps. So yeah, bring it.

 

i thought after, i think, the 2nd page, none of this shit mattered anymore.

play how you want to play, it's whatever. that's how I play, I play like whatever.

 

I agree with Slide. Like, whatever. This thread needs to be Yomi'd.

 

This was all cleared up on the seventh post of the tenth page.

 

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If theres no pattern to justify your move, you're guessing. </div></div>

Its ALWAYS a guess. There is no guarantee that the opponent will do what you think, even if he has been doing it 10 times a row. Induction is not a valid form of deduction, while most people think so. /semantics

 

haha you bastard.

 

I have your weaknesses in black and white mate!

I'm back online now, my gamertag is "O Seidon O".

I'm very, very rusty at the moment but I'm going to be going balls to the walls with Wolf up until August if you want to get a few games in.

 

i must say im surprized by your manners here.

i said this once, and i'll say it again.

there are different layers of reading your opponent, and if you dont see them then you'll keep having it fed to you on a consistent basis.

if you ever read the theories of elite japanese players, you wouldnt even begin to understand the time and thought put into developing the base of their game. this stuff gets published into books, and only a fraction gets posted here on VFDC.

im not talking about general players that gets laughed at by snooty asian scenes, im talking about the players outside the box that will rip the fucking shit out of your game on multiple levels.

if you carry your game based apon "whatever", the opponent will treat you like "whatever".

you come here impplying things are incorrect when you have no idea what i even said. that's making things worse for your point in mind. that kind of disrespect is not very commendable in a forum either, it's classed as trolling.

 

Linzhuomin these are not the VFers you are looking for...

 

you didnt quote me, but it looks like this part of your post was targeted towards me, cause of the other post I made.

laughable.

 

There's 3 levels of Yomi...

My example:

You are fighting El Blaze and you block his low punch.

He can predict you will throw a low punch back and do 8P+K to beat your 2P... That's level one...

Instead, you predict he will do 8P+K to beat your 2P so you throw a simple standing punch instead. That's level two...

Level three:
El Blaze knows you might not 2P and, instead, try to juggle him out of his 8P+K with a standing P. So he does his P+K+G sabaki to beat it. However, the original move is the counter to the counter at the third level, it can't go any higher. If you do the 2P (the first and more simple option) you beat his sabaki...

He was trying to predict two levels ahead by countering the counter to his 8P+K (which was standing P in this case) with his P+K+G... However, if you know this or you didn't and just weren't predicting him countering your 2P with his 8P+K you still win. If they are thinking too far ahead and you're not it would seem you still come out ahead...

Can there be more than three layers???

 

You're mistakenly equating equal payoff and non-equal payoff games, without realizing the differences.

In normal rock, paper, scissors... yes, optimal play means you win a third of the time, and there isn't much to base a decision on, so random wins over trying to guess.

However, in an RPS variant where points scored differ based on what move you win with... or in a fighting game like VF, where differences in move speed and damage exist, it becomes much easier to guess correctly. Guessing isn't just looking at patterns... if I'm playing against wolf, I know he wants to use giant swing on me. It doesn't matter what his playstyle is, or anything... giant swing is the strongest move in the game, unless he's just a crappy player, he obviously should be trying to giant swing, it's just too good to not use. That gives a concrete basis for making a prediction, that relies only on game rules, not on understanding my opponent's habits.

Of course, that same rules basis also provides the "I know that you know that I know, etc, etc" interactions that actually make yomi interesting. But my point is, there's an equal split between actually reading your opponent's patterns, and just coming into a match with enough game knowledge that you can make a prediction simply because you can always tell what your opponent's best option is as quickly as he can.

 

<==== Troll. Keen eye sir.

 

if i cant read my opponent and get clueless im stuck on guard lol