your lei fei nikatus

I've just recently start focusing on nikatu's. Sadly, the only real one i'm utilizing consciencely is 2p throw, 2p 43pk (to give me an edge vs sweeps that 66p lacks), and 2p 66p (to give me safety vs block 43pk lacks), depending on what to replies i think my opponent might use. I know this isn't really a full nikatu, but i'm starting small, and wanting to force my opponent to constantly be thinking "attack, duck, or block high, which one to choose."
So what are nikatu setups u guys like to use with lei fei?
Or is nikatu gonna be something used more practically as something that occurs after u've blocked an opponents attack?
But mostly i'm wondering how i should be forcing nikatu!
Anyhow, any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

IIRC, true nitaku starts at +7, and ends at (for Lei Fei on the offensive) +10. +11 gives a free PP, and +12 onwards gives a free throw.

Find all attacks that give +7 onwards on hit and/or counter, pretty much.

He does have a move though that gives +6 on block (Hai /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/p.gif+/forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/k.gif) which eliminates the opponent's ability to fuzzy guard the next attack, forcing them in a chitaku (three way tactics) position.

 

+7, is that right?! You can force opponent to guess between eating a throw or a counterhit mid at +4.

EDIT: nvm, I get it now.

 

It takes 6 frames to crouch dash, while it takes 7 frames to crouch naormally.

Because it takes 6f to crouch dash, your opponent can fuzzy guard at +4.

To eliminate the possibility of crouch dashing, you have to be at +6 onwards. To eliminate the possibility of normal crouching, you have to be at +7 onwards.

It is the moment the crouch is eliminated that your opponent is forced to eat a throw or counterhit mid. That's why true nitaku starts at +7.

 

so wait if they can no longer duck, then why is there options throw or counter hit mid? Why mid if they can't duck. Then wouldn't high be jus as good. Or low even better. Also, what i'm really hoping is for setups people use with lei fei to force nikatu during fights. For ex. hai p pk, well even if that leaves u +7 it pushes ur opponent so far away...
if u can go on about 3 way decision i'm interested as well. I'm sure i'm already using these ideas, i'm not completely without resources when i fight BTW, but i dont really know the fundementals/proofs of what i'm doing. So more on this discussion would be greatly appreciated.
Also Blackdragon where the hell are you? I mean, u always weigh in on things, and this time u came with (i think) good knowledge but then i've never heard of you on xbl or has anybody here played u? I've also heard u are a ps3 player so that could be why. Anyhow people, please keep up the good discussion. Also any lei's who have setup they use to steer the fight towards nikatu please share

 

Lows usually take more frames then throws. So even if you are at +7 they should be able to block the low. Like you said some moves don't always give you the best position with +7. Example. Ch 2p on crouched opponent. Although you are +7 they are still crouching so throw can be ducked and even 2p'ed. it's often better to mid attack at this point.
That’s just a small example anyone have a better example???

 

Losing the ability to crouch takes away the opportunity to duck a throw. This leaves the opponent on the defensive them with 2 options - attack, or defend/block.

Let's not forget however, that the opponent always has 2P. That's where the counter-hit mid comes in.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also, what i'm really hoping is for setups people use with lei fei to force nikatu during fights. For ex. hai p pk, well even if that leaves u +7 it pushes ur opponent so far away...</div></div>Dash forward via buffering. Mainly because there is the 0-frame throw option still available.


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if u can go on about 3 way decision i'm interested as well. I'm sure i'm already using these ideas, i'm not completely without resources when i fight BTW, but i dont really know the fundementals/proofs of what i'm doing. So more on this discussion would be greatly appreciated.</div></div>The chitaku tactic is pretty simple. It just forces your opponent to guess whether your next attack is high (throw included), mid, or low.

At face value, this looks better than the nitaku tactic. However, the point of this fighting game (and many others) is to reduce your opponent's options to none. The least options they have, the better.

IIRC, chitaku starts at +1(?) and ends at +6. I'm pretty sure it's more obvious when it starts at +4 though (if the opponent fuzzy guards, they can eat a low attack).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Also Blackdragon where the hell are you? I mean, u always weigh in on things, and this time u came with (i think) good knowledge but then i've never heard of you on xbl or has anybody here played u? I've also heard u are a ps3 player so that could be why.</div></div>I don't have a PS3. Yet.

I do have an Xbox 360, though. And I have played a couple guys here in VFDC. I'll be playing this game a lot more than usual this week since I need to review it as part of my coursework, anyway.

Plus I'm good with numbers. That always helps. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

I always thought the 3-choice scenario was called santaku.

Ni as in 2, San as in 3.

http://virtuafighter.com/wiki/doku.php?id=vf5:glossary&s

 

My bad.

 

You got it backwards. If youre at +6, opponent cannot simply crouch under a throw. If youre at +7, opponent cannot crouch dash under a throw. +7 is where "true nitaku" starts. VF5 brought the concept "true nitaku" with its changed throw speed.

 

Doesn't it take 6f to crouch dash and 7f to normal crouch?

 

Yep so you can crouch dash fuzzy to avoid a throw at +6

You cant use normal crouch to avoid a throw at +6

 

If I'm playing the game without save data, my first Nitaku setup is one I have to make on the character select screen. Do I choose the green outfit or the Shaolin-esque outfit.

Keke sorry, bad joke, continue the good discussion.

 

Oh wow...

See, I thought that you can't crouch dash at -6 because -6+6=0, leaving you no room to do it, but you can normal crouch because -6+7=1, leaving you with 1 frame to crouch.

Can someone show me the maths behind crouching and crouch dashing at -6?

And lawlz at KrsJin's joke.

 

6 frames disadvantage + 7 frames to crouch = 13 > 12 frames of throw speed. So you cant crouch normally under a throw.

7 frames disadvantage + 6 frames to crouch dash = 13 > 12 frames of throw speed. So you cant CD under a throw.

 

You're doing it wrong, hehe.
You're crouching on the 6th frame of CD and on 7th frame of normal crouch so in basic math you want to crouch before a throw can connect.

Disadvantage - crouch / CD start-up = or < throw speed (12)

-6 - 6 = 12 you are crouching on the frame the throw would connect.
-6 - 7 = 13 you are still standing when a throw connects.

 

So wait...

6f disadvantage + 6f to CD = 12 = 12f of throw speed, which means you can still CD under a throw, right?

 

Damn, I just now noticed Manji beat me to it /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Well, yes, it's common knowledge that you can CD fuzzy at -6. Normal fuzzy up to -5.