Your own changes for ver.C Evo

Like the topic says, what changes would you make from Evolution version B, into Evolution version C?
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Things to avoid:

-Changes of costumes/items/emblems/etc.
-Ridiculous(or unrealistic/sarcastic) ideas, such as: give Goh a TFT throw, make Akira's knee easier, change Lion's voice actor, put in a new character like a robot, put weapons in, you get the point.
-change the music, etc.
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What the intent of this thread is, is aiming for gameplay balances, mainly focused on the current set of characters and how balanced they are. But, if you wish feel free to comment on the balance of stages too, as an example you wanted the garden stage to be slightly larger, or anything along those lines.
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Things to include:

-augmentation or reduction on a move's or throw's damage.
-increased or decreased advantage/disadvantage on a move when it is blocked, whiffed, interupts, etc.
-removal of a move, or addition (even replacement) of a move (don't get carries away here though).
-apply or remove properties from a move, like make Akira's + not force crouch, or have it recover high instead of low / or have Kage's + on the third punch remove 1DP from Shun.
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Post whatever you can think of I guess...
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PLEASE change Lion's voice actor...wtf are you smoking?
Bring back E-button, varied stages...new stances and more fluid transitions between stances for shun...instead of just having single or one or two attacks from a stance..combos which have manuel transitions from stance to stance...

 

I'm pretty satisfied with character balance.

I probably wouldn't even change shun as much as I enjoy bitching about him. Maybe increase the recovery of all back or db dodging swipes, or alter their priority. KKP needs to be tweaked, namely they could fix it by making it linear instead of half circular. Recovery could be -4 for the chouwan upper.
Low kick as a concept should be scrapped. Everyone I talk to says it's horrible, and I think it's horrible for entirely different reasons, so it should either be made into a "real" low kick (normal priority and frames) or it should do something special besides take out a hair of life and get shun out of nitaku guessing games.

I'd probably do something with kage's FC upper and/or K+G, they're both really good. Increased recovery for both K+G and K+G,P.

Jacky's f+K being as safe as it is seems a tiny bit wrong. Up the rec. by 2 frames maybe.

This is a dumb gripe, given we're talking about pai, but K,K --> pounce should never work, even if the opponent fails to TR.

In general, dumb KKP or KPK combos shouldn't hit so easily. Jacky's for example is a damaging followup to midlevel floats, jeffry's can work in floats on midweights or after a crumple, etc. Damage shouldn't come that easily, the ideal damage shouldn't come from three button presses. It shouldn't even be close.

They might as well make all wall hits TRable, seems dumb to eat a pounce after certain attacks.

Can we finally make akira's SDE 15 frames?
Low backfist (df+P+K) should get no special priority, it's crap when it beats low punches and elbows.

Goh's b+P+K after knee is maybe too easy and no brainer for heavy damage. You can get b,f+K+G and then you're forced to do something halfway skillful... the d+P rebounce --> standing K combo. To compensate, the otherwise near-useless b+P+K needs to be made faster, like ~18 frames maybe. Another idea... it's got the kind of animation that sort of indicates it would make a good sabaki attack. Maybe have it sabaki elbows and do something else with df+P+K. df+P+K should guarantee a throw on any successful sabaki and stun the opponent enough that even throwing 1 or 2 frames late still works. As it is, if they're in open stance or you're a hair late, they can just smack you out of your throw... or the throw just whiffs. I want to be able to do df,df+P+G and come in from a step outside of throw range without the opponent getting a chance to smack me.

Brad probably needs work but I don't know what to do with him. He just strikes me as weak and unpopular.

Lau's PPPsweep and/or PPPK could be slowed down so that if you don't have good float, you can no longer get PPPsweep for easy, good damage. It's been boring since VF1. Make him at least do P,b+P,P or some m-attacks.

In general, I find the change to sidekick MC's annoying (the change from VF3 to VF4) ... they should knock down or do something more interesting than knock you back and stun you. A crumple animation would seem appropriate, but then that'd make them too strong. Maybe give them a short vital area crumple so that you at least are able to force a knee-or-throw guessing game.

 

Hmmm... well, i'd like to see Brad get a throw that gets him right into his head grab... something like King's (from Tekken): . Maybe it could work like a regular catch throw with the CD built in. That could make him slightly more interesting.

I'd like to see something more done with dodge attacks. Maybe all characters could get another one... maybe a high-hitting version that could cause crumple or something. But that's not something that would be feasible for ver.C. Maybe for VF5.

I want to see Jeff's recovery improve. A high throw counterable low attack doesn't seem right. In general, his charge-able moves need to have less charge time, i think. I'm referring specifically to and . So maybe instead of improving recovery the charge time could be reduced. The tornado punch executes too slowly to be so easily dodged. Oh, and should hit mid.

 

I wld like Jacky's lightning kicks to be G-cancellable to allow for better mind games possibility.

Bring back Jacky's punt kick of old ver C.

Slow akira's dbl plm down, especially after he gets knocked down.

Higher damage and better scrape-off-the-floor-hit- detection for Fujin.

And my personal dream, for the screen to (optionally?) display the escape input for a throw whenever yer oppoent thows you.

 

change the range of rising atacks! and throw range and most of all bring back the evade-escape buttion!

 

I'd like to see Jeffry get a better option on throw escape, preferably something with 50+ damage.

 

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And my personal dream, for the screen to (optionally?) display the escape input for a throw whenever yer oppoent thows you.


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It's possible to do that in free training mode under the display options.

 

heh heh, prob is i dont have a PS2.

 

Make it so that Shun cannot add drink points between rounds. I think it's BS that he gets free drinks just because he won, I don't care HOW underrated/weak he is.

Let you TR all wall hits.

Reduce float damage in combos a bit more. I'm fine with the float differences, but the damage is still a bit high for what it is. (Then again, I use Aoi, so what's my opinion mean? )

 

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Make it so that Shun cannot add drink points between rounds. I think it's BS that he gets free drinks just because he won, I don't care HOW underrated/weak he is.


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Fair deal. Make it to where he can't LOSE drink points eitehr then. It's a two-way street, and this point is a very unfortunate horse, who has been bludgeoned to death.

Jeffry: Make his half-the-fucking-life-bar hit-throw 50/50 escapable, or do less damage.
Lion: Bring back his + and better items besides those stupid sleeve colors.
Either make the meteor punch actually sabaki something for a change, or make it always hit when it sabakis.
Shun: Add a throw-direction and some better items.
Kage: Some new stuff for the jumanji stance, and maybe nuke a throw direction.
Sarah/Lau/Jacky: Give them something so people won't sit there throwing out an entire match. Sarah's been the worst offender of this lately... at least in my hood.
Akira: make one of his good non-counterable moves counterable. You can throw out bread & butter risk-free all day long.

 

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GaijinPunch said:
Jeffry: Make his half-the-fucking-life-bar hit-throw 50/50 escapable, or do less damage.


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Man, why does everyone want to neuter Jeffry all the time? That hit throw is the only thing he's got going for him! You know how hard it is to get MC toe kick? /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

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GaijinPunch said:

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Make it so that Shun cannot add drink points between rounds. I think it's BS that he gets free drinks just because he won, I don't care HOW underrated/weak he is.


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Fair deal. Make it to where he can't LOSE drink points eitehr then. It's a two-way street, and this point is a very unfortunate horse, who has been bludgeoned to death.

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I must be an idiot for not following this logic. I mean, the point of his drinking mvoe is to power him up. The point is to try and do it during a match. Letting him drink between rounds is like a 2D fighting game letting you do crazy stuff to build super meter between rounds.

Granted, I'm not a Shun player and all, but I also find it annoying just watching someone go into a stance and then drink when the round is over. PLUS most sobering moves that people have barely take enough drink points for them to be worth doing if the Shun has any sense at all to stay away form them.

I'm not angry, just trying to figure out the logic behind this argument /versus/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

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GaijinPunch said:
Shun: Add a throw-direction and some better items.


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No need for more throw directions, just make Shun's + more useful, eg. no longer consume 3 dps or do more damage.

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hikarutilmitt said:
Make it so that Shun cannot add drink points between rounds. I think it's BS that he gets free drinks just because he won, I don't care HOW underrated/weak he is.


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You may not care how weak he is but there are other people who DO care. How would Shun get dps if he can't get free dps after a round? You mean + throw? Everybody knows to escape + throw when fighting against him. Shun players would simply do running-away-and-drink more often in this case, which will make him more boring and annoying.
My question is: if Shun is so evil and cheap like some of you stated, why only a few people use him in Japan?

 

Thank you. Shun can barely get DPs without getting hit. He can barely do it when he knocks people down because of tech rolls and he drinks like an old man (sit down drink and try not to get raped). His only plausible option is offensive throwing.

I'm also surprised that people are bitchin' about wall combos+pounces and want tech rolls for every wall hit. That's your punishment for getting hit on a wall (it's a good anti-turtle thing). It's not like you can't tech up after you get hit once you actually hit the ground and pounce damage is scaled tremedously unless you didn't get up properly. The stages are also fairly big so you have to fuck up and get comboed to practically to even be near a wall. Who besides Akira knocks knocks you fifty feet back in a non-combo situation?

And one more thing: LEAVE JACKY ALONE!!! And all his elbow relatives. This is how they are meant to played (well Jacky is for sure). You know why Jacky players poke you to death with elbows and such? Because all his other moves get him torn up if blocked. When Jacky gets Akira style recovery times then he can get his elbow nerfed.

 

What GP meant is that if Shun can't get DPs after a match is over, he can't lose DPs either (i.e., after the match is over, not during the match).

 

I think they should've been more attention to paid to little graphical details. It still bothers me how Pai's right shoulder seems to pop thru her shirt.
I would also have given Pai more strength, or at least combos that lasted longer than her average combos do now, so that she would have a new way to dish out extra damage.
Bring back her DDT and Roll OVer Throw
Give her a low reversal.

 

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That hit throw is the only thing he's got going for him!


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The *ONLY* thing? How many times have you played w/ Jeffry?

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PLUS most sobering moves that people have barely take enough drink points for them to be worth doing if the Shun has any sense at all to stay away form them.


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Most characters can easily take two DPs off after a match if you end the match right. Some up to 4 (Akira is a prime example). To boot, most moves that take off DPs are uncounterable. Two I can think of that are counterable are Aoi's + and Pai's . Kage, Lion, Sarah, Akira can easily take the drinks off risk-free. Some of their throws sober him up as well, including one of Jeff's high-damaging throws. if you play as Shun, and you end the round properly, you can get 6 drinks, but takes a lot of planning. The way it stands, it's way easier to take off drinks, than it is for Shun to GET drinks, so I think it's only fair that he gets 4-6 per won round where as he'll usually only lose 2-4 for a lost round.

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No need for more throw directions, just make Shun's + more useful, eg. no longer consume 3 dps or do more damage.


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Respect.

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What GP meant is that if Shun can't get DPs after a match is over, he can't lose DPs either (i.e., after the match is over, not during the match).


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Respect.

 

The only way that I would consider removing Shun player's ability to gain Drink Points after a round, would be to significantly alter his movelist to accompany many more moves that could, and effectively, replace the amount of DP's and effort it takes to get those, after a match.

Like others have mentioned, many combo starters have built in DP removal properties already factored into them, so even if a player of any character in general is playing normally, unaware of DP's, then he is bound to pull off a move that would Sober Shun up anyways.

Shun on the other hand can't press P+K+G in his various stances to get his +1,3 DP's during normal play of a round. After all, who is going to let Shun take drinks during a round, when they can easily strike/throw him from his disadvantaged state.

The reason that AM2 made his DP adding moves (the ones that do not do damage) are that they can be used after a round is over, without Shun having to come into contact with an opponent. Like when a round is over, and Shun has won, his opponent is sometimes not in a position to gain the +4 DP's after his P+G throw. The same can also be said for opponents of Shun, as Shun is not always in a standing crumple waiting for Akira to do the open stance + , + , +++ -3DP's Sober combo.

If Shun can win 2 round, he can get a maximum of +6 per round, which is +12 altogether....out of 40. So +12DP's is roughly what Shun can get after two wins, if he has the maximum time to get two P+K+G Drinks in from the Half-Circular stance. Factor in his opponent also Sobering him after lost rounds, and during each round (losses and wins), and most Shun matches don't see nearly as many as 40 Drinks.

Considering that Shun has a maximum capacity for 40 DP's, and getting 40 DP's in 3, even 4 rounds of play is basically near impossible, it is unrealistic that given the actual bonuses provided by DP's that they should be given a nerf in any form, without receiving a buff of equal proportion.

As others have mentioned, you need to anticipate the end of a round (as Shun) to set up your opponent's KO with a low frame move, as it will allow you consume the most DP's possible. But considering that is not always applicable, you cannot always take advatange of +6 drinks per won round, sometimes no more than one drink.

 

I don't object to shun di getting those drinks (since you can sober him up if YOU win)... I should mention though that they're not the only way to get him drinks. Running away is an obvious one. You can also choose not to pursue TR's or knockdowns where shun has very little advantage and instead drink. Drink after every dodge attack, db+K,K, every successful float combo, every successful knockdown basically.