VF3 / Lion [ print friendly ] [ command view ] VF3- Lion
Name Input Damage Level Rev Lvl Frame Stats Notes
low punch d+P 11 L L-P 16-1-14
dodging peck db+P 12 L L-P 17-2-28
dodging double peck db+PP 12+8=20 LL H-P 6-2-25
low punch D+P 8 L L-P 10-1-15
creeping peck DF+P 7 L L-P 13-2-24
creeping double peck DF+PP 7+10=17 LL L-P 13-1-26
lunging low poke b,df+P 21 L L-P 27-2-28
dodging swipe d+P+E 20 L L-P 17-3-24
sweeping hand d+P+K 15 L L-P 19-2-21
wind up swipe df+P+K 20 L L-P 21-2-44
low kick d+K 12 L L-K 18-2-27
double low kick d+KK +20=32 LL L-K 17-3-33
low kick-crescent d+KK+G +30=42 LH H-C 20-6-27(29)
handstand kick db+K 24 L L-K 16-2-2
hstd kick continuation db+K 24+9=33 LL L-K 2-4-43
sweep d+K+G 24 L L-C 20-4-38(39)
lunging sweep df+K+G 24 L L-C 26-5-33(39)
uppercut df+P 10 M H-P 12-2-19
uppercut-swipe df+PP 20=30 MM H-P 13-2-28
dashing upper D,f+P 24 M H-P 13-2-26 G-full
elbow f+P 14 M M-P 11-2-22 G-half
elbow-lunging poke f+PP +18=32 MM H-P 27-2-26
lunging poke f,f+P 35 M H-P 27-2-26
helix b+P 19 M H-P 16-2-27
helix-reverse helix b+PP +19=38 MM H-P 18-2-27
helix-reverse helix-
-hopping spin kick b+PPK +25=63 MMM M-K 28-3-29(31)
overhead poke u+P+K 20 M H-P 12-4-33(34)
sidekick df+K 24 M M-K 15-2-28 G-half
knee f+K 25 M Knee 15-2-29
lunging knee f,f+K 15 M H-K 18-3-32
lunging knee-jump kick f,f+KK +20=35 MM H-K 11-2-42
hop kick u+K 25 M M-K 18-4-19(29)
hop kick-kick u+KK +30=55 MH -- 23-4-24(41)
flop over kick uf+K 20 M -- 30-6-62/49(49)
dodging sidekick df+K+E 24 M M-K 16-2-25
lunging spin kick f,f+K+G 24 M H-C 25-4-29(28)
punch P 9[10] H H-P 10-1-13[15]
punch-heel kick PK +20=29* HH H-K 11-2-35
double punch PP +10=19* HH H-P 9-2-18
double punch-low swipe PPd+P +20=39* HHL L-P 21-2-44
triple punch PPP +12=31* HHH H-P 9-3-39
dodging punch P+E 10 H H-P 10-1-15
spinning swipe f+P+E 30 H H-P 26-7-24
eye poke f+P+K 24 H -- 19-3-21
dodging double poke b+P+K 30 H -- 24-4-28 -2DP
kick K 25 H -- 13-2-27
double kick KK +20=45 HH -- 16-2-33
dodging kick K+E 25 H -- 13-2-27
backwards heel crash d,U+P 40 G -- 33-1-47(57)
forwards heel crash d,U+P 40 G -- 32-3-50(57)
ground chop df+P 12 G -- 17-2-52
backwards elbow crash u+P 30 G -- 47-2-47(65)
forwards elbow crash u+P 30 G -- 27-4-56(65)
flop over kick uf+K 20 G -- 30-6-62
TA punch b,b+P 14 H H-P 14-2-19
TA kick b,b+K 25 H H-K 11-2-28
TA hop kick b,b+K+G 24 H H-K 12-2-25(31)
TT double punch P 12 H H-P 12-1-1
TT dblpnch continuation P +12=24 HH H-P 11-1-20
TT low swipe d+P 14 L L-P 13-1-29
TT low swipe D+P 12 L -- 11-1-13
TT sweep D+K 20 L L-K 14-2-25(36)
TT advancing poke P+K 14 H H-P 15-4-16
TT kick K 36 H -- 10-2-33
trip throw P+G 40 T -- 10-82-1
through the legs df+P+G 0 T -- 10-39-1
kickflip throw D,f+P+G 50 T -- 14-67{80}-1
alpha counter f,f+P+G 30+20=50T -- 20-61{55}-1
frontal piggy back f>b+P+G 10+15+15
+30=70 T -- 14-80-1
reaping throw b+P+G 30+20=50T -- 20-38-1
sky strike kick b,f+P+G 25+25=50T -- 10-80-1
falling neck choker uf+P+G 45 T -- 16-124-1
piggy back P+G 10+15
+25=50 T-B -- 14-37-1
piggy back knee strike P+G 10+20
+20=50 T-S -- 20-70-1
sky strike kick
into the wall b,f+P+G 50 T-W -- 38-52-1
neck choker into the
wall and pull down uf+P+G 25+25=50T-W -- 21-94-1
cartwheel d,ub Move -- 1-49-1
backward sidestep ub+E Move -- 1-6-24
forward sidestep uf+E Move -- 1-6-18
*: This also is [30].
: command damage ex hit rec level comments
: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
: P+K 14 15 4 16 high (?)
This move combos with any turn away attack. This is "Lion's Lost Move"
(TM) All rights reserve BigCat.
So to do this, you have to do a TA attack first and do this move quickly
as you would for a true combo. As in:
b,b+K, P+K
b,b+K+G, P+K
b,b+P, P+K
Let me say this once and for all. Lion u/f+K pounce is freaking fast
BUT if you that the first hit and STRUGGLE and ROLL BACK you can get
up!
>Uh, Lion's PPP can be followed by an u/f+K pounce everytime, can it not?
>That's ~50 pts of damage, the same as your average throw, no?
Sorry, Creed, but I see lots of Lions in "these parts," mostly people who
suck, who think Lion was the best in VF2, because they used him to beat
people who REALLY sucked. d+K,K. d+K,K. d+G+K.
(escaping low throw tick, I think)
at least Pai can cartwheel. Pls tell me what to do with Lion!!! Lion
cannot elbow from crouch, don't have low throw so what you want lion
to do? sigh, I either wait then high throw or down punch... sigh down
punch.
Lion can do the creeping pecks :) .. Seriously though, the from
crouch f+P uppercut, does that float on minor counter? And is it fast
enough or no? That plus a pounce would be okay. d/f+P, P {swipe,
swipe combo?>
Lion's PPP, u/f+K is a true
combo. If the first punch hits, Lion gets the whole thing, everytime.
> Since all sweeps leave you dead and throwable if blocked, did I
> mention lion now has IMO the best in the game, the insanely easy and fast
> d/b+K, {plus pounce I think??> .. it's especially nice to have it
> recover low.
No pounce, for sure.
> ...oh, and pounces for free after most stuff :) Plus a good
> assortment of throws including a position switcher and many that get a
> pounce afterwards.
> >Actually, it -is- worth mentioning that the Catscratch is a -lot- more
> >powerful in VF3. The Slice Upper (d/f+P) seems to be a lot faster, the
> >Face Grab seems to be a lot more guaranteed... unfortunately, there's not
> >a hope in hell that he'll hit a pounce. :> Ah well.
>
> no pounce for free after the face grab?
Not if your opponent knows how to struggle and doesn't decide to roll
into you *shrug*
> >The FC uppercut? Don't go there. :> Not bad, yes, but not good. It's a
> >HP, and also high, *isn't* an adequate counter after blocking low, only
> >floats on a counter. The good news? Pretty fast. 13 is a respectable
> >execution time. PK counterable, tho, isn't it?
>
> Actually I believe it does hit mid (ie stagger a croucher) if you are
> VERY close. But my main gripe with it is that I can't get an elbow from
> a crouch because the move exists... What's your best float after this
> move?
*blinkblink* You're right. Andrew brought that up too, and i stand
corrected... it hits mid. Unfortunately, it's G-full, which means
crouching guarders take no damage. As well, i think it's a "pull up"
move, not a staggering one, but again, i could be wrong. As far as a low
counter goes, you may just have to settle for the Creeping Pecks (FC,
d/f+PP). However, if you're feeling ambitious, isn't a take-off kick
another option? :>
Best float after an upper, eh? Well, here's the thing. Lion's been
blessed in VF3 in that all his "starters", as i seem to be calling 'em
(that is to say, floating moves that allow a follow-up), leave him very
close to his opponent. The end result is that follow-ups are pretty
generic.
* On a really low float, just go for a high pounce. Eg. Regular Sidekick
* On a slightly higher float, you can "dig 'em up" with a DJK (f, f+KK).
Eg. TA Kick, Vacuum Punch with NO interrupt; or an MC Knee. Oh
yeah... don't forget to add the u/f+K.
* On a moderately high float, you can get away with f+PP. This is
actually possible on lightweights (Aoi & Pai) off a sidekick.
This is the same variety as the PPP float (add d/f+P). Actually,
PPG, High Pounce (if that works... *shrug* damned if i know) would
probably be a better option.
* On an even higher float, you can unload a KK, or PG-DJK. This is the
kind you get from TA HopKick, Vacuum Punch -with- an interrupt.
This is also the "rocket" variety that you get if you Uppercut
(FC, f+P) a hopper.
* On a vomitously high float, just do whatever the heck you want. Since
we're only going for style here anyhow, i suggest Take-off Kick.
Either that, or something that just borders on silly... like PG,
PG, PG, Elbow-Poke.
On an "even higher float", i have my favorite combo. On a hopping
recovery, or on MC against Pai & Aoi, you can do: Uppercut, Slice Upper,
Spinning Uppercut (aka Spinning Fists of Fury). That's FC, f+P, D/F...P,
u+P+K. Three varieties of upper, one low price. :> Of course, that's a
totally useless, 100% style combo. Besides decent distance, you're
pretty much wasting your time. ;>
> >Many? Just FC, f+P+G. P+G; b, f+P+G; and u/f+P+G allow nothing
> >afterwards. f, f+P+G allows a Mantis Swipe (d/f+P)... i -think- b+P+G
> >does too, but maybe not guaranteed. Face Grab doesn't guarantee either.
> >Aaaaaand... that's it. d/f+P+G is nice, yes, but position switching isn't
> >as much of a priority, i think, in a game where you can sidestep at will
> >and PPP is, even after all the tricks, King.
>
> Hmmm... On the cpu we have here (version 0 as far as I can tell) you can
> follow up a f,f+p+g with a u/f+k to really push your opponent back quite
> a distance - Alan mentioned this before
*nod* Maybe so, but you -can- roll out of the way. This is... er..
version... er... C, i think. Just as a note, the versions were
lettered. The only one i know off-hand is D, in which the Kickflip Warp
(for Aoi and Akira) was removed.
> Crouch-into-kickflip throw - I usually can follow up with d+k,k. You can
> try for a u/f+k after the swipe kicks, but this is not guaranteed - it
> is however, quite difficult for most people here to struggle quick
> enough to avoid it (it CAN be done) so I still use it. kickflip throw,
> d+k,k, u/f+k takes off about half the lifebar here (set to 200).
*nod* The problem is that here, people are starting to catch onto the
fact that struggling is VERY important. They've had enough of stuff like
Aoi doing Low throw or Back throw -> Ground throw -> Chop. We all know
that stuff isn't guaranteed, but it's close... kind of like Sarah's
b+P+G, pounce. In any case, the u/f+K -isn't- guaranteed after the swipe
kicks, and as much as i've been bitching about how "guaranteed combos"
aren't as important as they used to be, this -is- important. Especially
if we're talking about serious competition, and rating Lion as a powerful
character.
> The most consistent way I've been getting the throw thus far is to
> meta-combo it with a swipe kick (swipe kick from open to closed stance
> to close the gap). It's dangerous of course... certainly not guaranteed
> at all even if the swipe kick MC's but a gamble quite worth it if you
> play it at the right time and do not overuse it.....
One more hot tip would be to exchange the Kickflip throw with another
throw, probably the Facegrab would be best. They have comparable damage
(after the Pounce tacked on the Kickflip) and different reversal
motions. MC-kicking isn't enough... you really have to mix up your
throws too.
: Alright... Anyhow. b+PPK is the biggest load of eye candy i've ever
: seen. *grin* Actually, i like, and sometimes you catch people with it.
: My personal fav, since you can't delay it, is to do b+PP, then u+K. If
: it hits, the second dancing kick is all but guaranteed. Pounce and stir
: well. :>
Being eye candy does have advantages. b+PPK hits mid all the way. Creed
was saying Lion has "tons and tons of low attacks" or words to that
effect. Time to bring the low attacks in. b+PP is guaranteed when the 1st
b+P hits. The second P will hit an E-er. Lion spins left-right or
right-left depending on stance. Once an intended victim is hit by them or
are blocking them. The usual trap popular here is either the b/d+K or
d+KK. Else crouch expecting it and you can insert the K or do a sidekick.
I've eaten really a lot of low attacks this way. Eing was a good option
after the 2nd P but soon they learn and do other irritating things.
Many have tried an elbow to interrupt but smart Lion's will learn fast
and defend when they know you get sick of their poking and pecking.
>Move Dam. Ex/C/Re
>Lion's d/b+K 24+9 16/6/43 (that's an approximation after 2 hits)
>Either Chan's d+K+G 20-35 24/5/32 (44-45 on stop animation)
>Either Bryant's d+K+G 25 18/1/33
>Aoi's d+K+G 20 19/4/30 (46 on stop animation)
>Hm. Fastest to come out, best guaranteed damage. BUT... everyone else
>gets a ground attack on a knockdown... that's about 10 extra points a
>piece, which evens the damage off.
the u/f+K is guaranteed on major counter.
Lion's kicks do hit E'ers quite well from experience partly because
there are two kicks or something like that. I've hit E'ers on quite a
number of ocassions.
one thing abt Lion in our version is that his d/b+K is almost
IMPOSSIBLE to interrupt as Lion goes into low stance VERY FAST.
Another thing I notice when I when Japan was his d/b+K no longer has
the remarkable dodging ability anymore.
>Next. Yes... the Knee is now very viable. The elbow always was. Same
>with his sidekick. Those are good staples. I don't know about
>"tricky to dodge", though... doesn't feel any harder to dodge than any
>other, as far as i'm concerned.
I think that you may have difficulty dodging Lion's sidekick on ONE
side as his kick covers like 90 deg sideways.
>Good poking? Hmm... Yes, true. Unfortunately, poking isn't -quite- what
>it used to be. The majority of GOOD pokes are PKGs and PGs... and almost
>anyone can do those. Oh... wait... Lion can't do a PKG, can he? :>
you know Lion's P recovers 15 frames from far 13 frames from close.
Quite slow huh.
>And i -definitely- agree. It's very nice to have low recovery. While the
I've to settle for a high recovery d/b+K. But I can do things like
PPP,down+K,u/f+K :)
>Elbow-stagger-throw gambit is dangerous, i MUCH prefer it to just straight
>into throw. After all... you just struggle out of the stagger, and add K
>to your struggling buttons. You recover, they throw, Whoops! You're in
>execution, they get missed throw animation, you plow them with a kick...
>pounce and stir. None of this is guaranteed, of course, just an idea.
actually struggling with P+G gives you very high chance of throwing
the opponent back.
>*shrug* I'd rather recover low and have a maximum of 3 reversal motions to
>contend with than recover high and have zillions. Yeah, you can do almost
>as many things to a low recovering meatball, but NOT as many.
BUT I realise if people actually stop and think, they'll realise that
most characters have attacks that can hit Lion 100% after a blocked
d/b+K which gives them similar damage to throws.
>> no pounce for free after the face grab?
>Not if your opponent knows how to struggle and doesn't decide to roll
>into you *shrug*
my version, it is almost guaranteed. Sega did indeed changed the
u/f+K.
>> That's all true too. Plus, turns out lion does NOT get the PPP pounce
>> for free throw-damage... that's a good thing.
>PPP, d/f+P is plenty, actually... 44 pts. Not bad... same as a.. er...
>side throw :>
I get to do PPP,d+K,u/f+K. for like err.... 60++ damage :)
>* Turnaround Attack-Vacuum punch combo. Gotta like it. NOT a viable
>combo starter for a couple of reasons: Always high, and he -can- be back
>thrown between moves, which is sort of odd. Try it against the CPU.
>*shrug* Anyhow, VERY stylish, very cool, and i particularly like multiple
>turnarounds against Pai and Aoi. One i like a lot is Alan's TA Kick,
>Vacuum, TA Kick, low pounce, since the back-turned pounce is sooooo quick.
this is actually very useful after dodges. One think I think Lion has
is a good counter after a successful dodge. If you try to throw,
sometimes the opponent is executing a chain like PPP and you may miss
you throw else get a low damage side throw. Lion has the TA kick combo
that gives lion definate damage, and quite good. One thing if you
notice you hit a MC and the float is high enuff, you can react and
change your combo into b,b+K,P+K,b,b+K,P+K,high pounce which gives you
more than half blood. Very strong combo. One thing abt float nowadays
is that after the second hit, the damage is reduced to 50% so it is
always advisable to end you float with a pounce.
>* Huge guaranteed float combo enders... notably, f+KK is a quick 35 pts
>onto any float. Get a BIG float and you get KK... 45 pts. Both get an
>u/f+K afterwards, i think. P, f+KK is another (45pt) option. As an
>aside, he also has some great style enders: u+P+K; f+PP; b+PP. On the
>downside, he lost PK as an ender.
one thing I think I posted is the float damage is usually 75% for fist
two hits and only 50% thereafter. Thus Pai PPPdown+K does so little
damage.
>* Better knee. 15 frame execution is maaaaarvelous... just as fast as a
>sidekick. Throw counterable, tho, i think. At 25 damage and 29 recovery,
>(vs. Jacky's 30-30) i'm pretty sure of that. Finish with f, f+KK and
>it's a DEADLY counter. (i think that's only against the lightweights)
mm.. never used the knee partly because its counterable and rather
slow. 15 frames is quite slow what. you'll never get it of against
fast character who like to elbow. I prefer to get damage thru Elbows
and throws and d/b+K.
>* Pounces. 'Nuff said. Actually, no. Trained your opponent NOT to roll
>into you anymore? Cool. Do d+K+G, u/f+K. Pretty bad, eh? :>
>* Lots more throws. The con side of that is that f+P+G covers *all* his
>good throws, except the face grab. d/f+P+G and u/f+P+G i'm not
>qualifying as "good" because they're not really exceptional... just
>average. :> Your opponent is better off preventing the Kickflip throw,
>and f, f+P+G is something you'll fall back on without thinking.
b+P+G is an option.
Alan Tan
>Uh, Lion's PPP can be followed by an u/f+K pounce everytime, can it not?
>That's ~50 pts of damage, the same as your average throw, no?
the u/f+K can only be followed in the earlier version. It seems sega
made the later versions such that the only thing that lion can do
after PPP is d/f+P.
my friend who came back from US said the machines in US are of the
later versions as he cannot do the u/f+K pounce after PPP.
]>The FC uppercut? Don't go there. :> Not bad, yes, but not good. It's a
]>HP, and also high, *isn't* an adequate counter after blocking low, only
]>floats on a counter. The good news? Pretty fast. 13 is a respectable
]>execution time. PK counterable, tho, isn't it?
]
] First off, the FC upper hits mid, right? To add to the downsides,
]it's a G-full move, sez Graham and Yupa, although OTOH so is Lau's UpKn.
Yeah, Lion's uppercut just stands up crouchers like the lifting palm and
other G-full moves, otherwise it's a mid-level attack that's reversed
high... nothing too strange about that.
]The FC upper has 26 frame recovery compared to his elbow's 22, but
]causes10 more pts of damage.
]Shouldn't that be enough to make it nearly as
]uncounterable as the elbow? Or do G-full mid attacks work differently?
They work differently, but I can't give you specifics... I would guess
Lion's uppercut is uncounterable, except maybe vs. the quicker punchers...
not sure.
re: FC, f+p hitting mid at close range...
>*blinkblink* You're right. Andrew brought that up too, and i stand
>corrected... it hits mid. Unfortunately, it's G-full, which means
>crouching guarders take no damage. As well, i think it's a "pull up"
>move, not a staggering one, but again, i could be wrong. As far as a low
>counter goes, you may just have to settle for the Creeping Pecks (FC,
>d/f+PP). However, if you're feeling ambitious, isn't a take-off kick
>another option? :>
Hmm... I'd better look at it more closely again myself, I can't really
recall whether it was a regular stagger animation or a pull-up that I
saw. In truth I have not been using this move lately to try and stagger
(or stand?) crouchers - keep misjudging the range and whiffing *ouch!* :(
Re: Uppercut floats - thanks for all your imaginative ideas :)
>* On a moderately high float, you can get away with f+PP. This is
> actually possible on lightweights (Aoi & Pai) off a sidekick.
Hmmm... Didn't know about the sidekick! Well, there you are, live and
learn :) Actually this is one of my favored follow-ups, since it appears
to 'push' really well (have Alan to thank for this tip), if you're
playing for RO's... Tack on the u/f+k and it really pushes... Useful of
course, if you fight in a small ring.
>* On an even higher float, you can unload a KK, or PG-DJK. This is the
> kind you get from TA HopKick, Vacuum Punch -with- an interrupt.
> This is also the "rocket" variety that you get if you Uppercut
> (FC, f+P) a hopper.
Ah... That's how you get the KK's to hit with more regularity! Thanks...
>> Hmmm... On the cpu we have here (version 0 as far as I can tell) you can
>> follow up a f,f+p+g with a u/f+k to really push your opponent back quite
>> a distance - Alan mentioned this before
>*nod* Maybe so, but you -can- roll out of the way. This is... er..
>version... er... C, i think. Just as a note, the versions were
>lettered. The only one i know off-hand is D, in which the Kickflip Warp
>(for Aoi and Akira) was removed.
Shows you how much I know :) Anyway, as far as I can tell, the u/f+k
follow up is pretty much guaranteed on version A - another pushing move.
(You might have figured out at this stage that I'm quite partial to
ROs...)
>One more hot tip would be to exchange the Kickflip throw with another
>throw, probably the Facegrab would be best. They have comparable damage
>(after the Pounce tacked on the Kickflip) and different reversal
>motions. MC-kicking isn't enough... you really have to mix up your
>throws too.
Actually I don't go for the MC-kick intentionally. I use the d+k mainly
to close the gap and to get the crouch component for the kickflip throw.
IMO, Lion's MC-low kick isn't that great (if someone can prove me wrong,
I'd be very grateful). It doesn't seem to stun long enough that a throw
is 100% guaranteed - this is quite evident, at least to me, when I've
played some new people who mash on the buttons. They usually throw out a
punch and interrupt the now missed throw. More experienced people it
seems, are less inclined to do things like that, maybe they will block a
while or something - that's why my low-kick into kickflip throw works...
Of course, mixing the low-kick with other stuff helps prevent one from
being too predictable - low-kick-FC uppercut's quite good if they cop on
and begin trying to P or something I have found. I can't verify this yet
but I think if they crouch, (not many of my friends have done that yet),
the uprcut will lift them - because of the kind of close range I get
when I close the gap with a d+k...
Oh, and I must have bananas for my fingers, for while I can get the
frontal piggy-back attack out on the lower level CPU chars, I can almost
NEVER get it in a vs human match... Once in a while's just not good
enough....
> re: FC, f+p hitting mid at close range...
>
> >*blinkblink* You're right. Andrew brought that up too, and i stand
> >corrected... it hits mid. Unfortunately, it's G-full, which means
> >crouching guarders take no damage. As well, i think it's a "pull up"
> >move, not a staggering one, but again, i could be wrong.
>
> Hmm... I'd better look at it more closely again myself, I can't really
> recall whether it was a regular stagger animation or a pull-up that I
> saw. In truth I have not been using this move lately to try and stagger
> (or stand?) crouchers - keep misjudging the range and whiffing *ouch!* :(
Okay... anyhow, i did my homework, and experimented, and here's what i
came up with. It's -definitely- a "pull up" move, and it's definitely a
G-full move. The skinny on the whole mid-level thing is that it has
enourmously short range as a mid-level attack. Beyond that, it sure as
hell doesn't hit mid... From open stance, you have to be *right* up
against them to hit it. Otherwise, it just goes zinging over their
head... Part of that misjudging range thing, i think. It'll happen a lot.
> Re: Uppercut floats - thanks for all your imaginative ideas :)
>
> >* On a moderately high float, you can get away with f+PP. This is
> > actually possible on lightweights (Aoi & Pai) off a sidekick.
>
> Hmmm... Didn't know about the sidekick! Well, there you are, live and
> learn :) Actually this is one of my favored follow-ups, since it appears
> to 'push' really well (have Alan to thank for this tip), if you're
> playing for RO's... Tack on the u/f+k and it really pushes... Useful of
> course, if you fight in a small ring.
Plus, it's guaranteed damage. *shrug*
> >> Hmmm... On the cpu we have here (version 0 as far as I can tell) you can
> >> follow up a f,f+p+g with a u/f+k to really push your opponent back quite
> >> a distance - Alan mentioned this before
>
> >*nod* Maybe so, but you -can- roll out of the way. This is... er..
> >version... er... C, i think.
>
> Shows you how much I know :) Anyway, as far as I can tell, the u/f+k
> follow up is pretty much guaranteed on version A - another pushing move.
> (You might have figured out at this stage that I'm quite partial to
> ROs...)
RO's are very important in VF3. It's an integral part of "controlling
the ring", and positioning, and since mobility is down, positioning is
one of the big keys to the game. In case some of you haven't heard my
marvelous global theory on the game, here it is:
I think that ring positioning is probably -the- most important element in
the game, since =everyone= has big damage potential -someplace-. Since
mobility is down, the most influential element on ring positioning is
throws. (which are also a big damage thing for people) Whoever controls
throwing in the game, that is, whoever is more skilled at unsing their own
throws, and escaping their opponents, controls the ring, and a good
portion of the damage potential as well. All this to say that i think
that throwing is the most important part of VF3... overall... and IMHO,
only, of course.
> >One more hot tip would be to exchange the Kickflip throw with another
> >throw, probably the Facegrab would be best. They have comparable damage
> >(after the Pounce tacked on the Kickflip) and different reversal
> >motions. MC-kicking isn't enough... you really have to mix up your
> >throws too.
>
> Actually I don't go for the MC-kick intentionally. I use the d+k mainly
> to close the gap and to get the crouch component for the kickflip throw.
> IMO, Lion's MC-low kick isn't that great (if someone can prove me wrong,
> I'd be very grateful). It doesn't seem to stun long enough that a throw
> is 100% guaranteed - this is quite evident, at least to me, when I've
> played some new people who mash on the buttons.
It's 100% guaranteed... i'm 90% sure of that :>
]Good poking? Hmm... Yes, true. Unfortunately, poking isn't -quite-
]what
]it used to be. The majority of GOOD pokes are PKGs and PGs... and
]almost
]anyone can do those. Oh... wait... Lion can't do a PKG, can he? :>
But Lion's high punch has been improved drastically from VF2. It comes out
and recovers faster. His PG is basically the same as everyone elses now...
that couldn't be said about his VF2 PG, which was very foolish to use as
a poking tool like other characters did...
]Oh yeah... one more quick note. Something really odd happens when you
]Catscratch, and also when you low kick-MC into a throw. It seems that
]if
]you do it right, you don't -always- get missed throw animation... or so
]it seems. I mean, if i miss the throw, i just seem to stand there
]looking silly... but no miss animation. Am i just lucky as all hell,
]and
]i'm getting it ONLY when i'm getting it, or did someone else notice?
Um, maybe you're inputing the throw too quickly, before the swipe or low
kick has recovered... {shrug>
]* Turnaround Attack-Vacuum punch combo. Gotta like it. NOT a viable
]combo starter for a couple of reasons: Always high, and he -can- be back
]thrown between moves, which is sort of odd. Try it against the CPU.
]*shrug* Anyhow, VERY stylish, very cool, and i particularly like
]multiple
]turnarounds against Pai and Aoi. One i like a lot is Alan's TA Kick,
]Vacuum, TA Kick, low pounce, since the back-turned pounce is sooooo
]quick.
]>* Better knee. 15 frame execution is maaaaarvelous... just as fast as
]>a sidekick. Throw counterable, tho, i think. At 25 damage and 29
]recovery,
]>(vs. Jacky's 30-30) i'm pretty sure of that. Finish with f, f+KK and
]>it's a DEADLY counter. (i think that's only against the lightweights)
]
]mm.. never used the knee partly because its counterable and rather
]slow. 15 frames is quite slow what. you'll never get it of against
]fast character who like to elbow. I prefer to get damage thru Elbows
]and throws and d/b+K.
Huh? Then how do Jacky, Sarah, Akira, Wolf, and Jeff players get knees
then? Lion's knee now has the same execution time as the other kneers --
it was a frame slower than them in VF2.
Setting up Lion's knee should work the same as any of the others -- set a
trap with a quick recovering attack, then go for the interrupt and float
combo... of course you're taking some risk, but you're looking to start a
big combo when you throw it out.
]This is no different, you could PK lion out of his old d+K+G from VF2.
]This is a result of slower autoduck probably.
No. Autoducking has nothing to do with attack animations, it's simply a
defensive animation that results from tapping d+G at the same time as an
incoming high attack.
] In any case I have never
]ever seen anyone high attack lion out of the handstand kicks but I
]haven't played much. I'll take your word for it.
]>*isn't* an adequate counter after blocking low, only
]>floats on a counter. The good news? Pretty fast. 13 is a respectable
]>execution time. PK counterable, tho, isn't it?
]
]Hey, who used PK these days? :)
PK counterable == PPP, ground attack for Lion...
]>Good poking? Hmm... Yes, true. Unfortunately, poking isn't -quite-
]what
]>it used to be. The majority of GOOD pokes are PKGs and PGs... and
]almost
]>anyone can do those. Oh... wait... Lion can't do a PKG, can he? :>
]
]If I recall, didn't you have a lot to say about the usefulness of
]creeping pecks and the fast double low peck in another thread?!
]{'uncounterable in ANY sense of the word' I think were your exact
]words. Sounds handy> has this changed? Being able to poke, and being
]able to poke low when low punches no longer work for most as a low
]poking tool ... that's good.
Also, Lion still has one of the longest ranged low punches in the game--he
sticks his finger out to poke you--that often makes a big difference when
infighting.
From tansh@singnet.com.sg Mon Jan 13 14:00:30 PST 1997
Article: 142485 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: tansh@singnet.com.sg (Alan Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: MORE Taka STUFF ! (VF3)
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:24:51 GMT
Organization: Singapore Telecom Internet Service
Lines: 20
Message-ID: {5bdf6g$1uj@lantana.singnet.com.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts900-4224.singnet.com.sg
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: RO
"Charlie Neo Toh Koon" {charlie@swiftech.com.sg> wrote:
>You're taking about Taka right.
>A VF3 magazine I read says that you can do 4 d/f+pk against light weight
>from on top of the pai stage. I tried but only connected the second one, I
>think the second d/f+pk I did is not FC that's why I'm unable to continue.
>But the second d/f+pk floats VERY VERY high. Highest I have seen in VF3 (
>except kage TFT ). Therefore I think it is possible if you can do 3 d/f+pk
>FC and the last one can be normal.
hey who are you?? I must know you right.... tell me.
anyway, one more thing, it probably has to be an MC. Anyway Zengzi
told me he succeeded on the Lion FC,f+P * 4 combo which is harder
because of the for+P motion.
Alan Tan
From tansh@singnet.com.sg Mon Jan 13 14:02:03 PST 1997
Article: 142487 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: tansh@singnet.com.sg (Alan Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] last minute advice/prayers
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:24:41 GMT
Organization: Singapore Telecom Internet Service
Lines: 17
Message-ID: {5bdf65$1uj@lantana.singnet.com.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts900-4224.singnet.com.sg
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: RO
BigCat *meow* {usagi@cs.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>> Actually I don't go for the MC-kick intentionally. I use the d+k mainly
>> to close the gap and to get the crouch component for the kickflip throw.
>> IMO, Lion's MC-low kick isn't that great (if someone can prove me wrong,
>> I'd be very grateful). It doesn't seem to stun long enough that a throw
>> is 100% guaranteed - this is quite evident, at least to me, when I've
>> played some new people who mash on the buttons.
>It's 100% guaranteed... i'm 90% sure of that :>
is this true?? I never tried mc low kick for Lion at all cuz I was
always under the impression that Lion cannot do it. All I know, it
seems if the first d+K hits as MC, the next low kick is unblockable.
Alan Tan
From tansh@singnet.com.sg Mon Jan 13 14:02:16 PST 1997
Article: 142518 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: tansh@singnet.com.sg (Alan Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] last minute advice/prayers
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:24:43 GMT
Organization: Singapore Telecom Internet Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: {5bdf6a$1uj@lantana.singnet.com.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts900-4224.singnet.com.sg
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: RO
yupasawa@aol.com (Yupasawa) wrote:
>]mm.. never used the knee partly because its counterable and rather
>]slow. 15 frames is quite slow what. you'll never get it of against
>]fast character who like to elbow. I prefer to get damage thru Elbows
>]and throws and d/b+K.
>Huh? Then how do Jacky, Sarah, Akira, Wolf, and Jeff players get knees
>then? Lion's knee now has the same execution time as the other kneers --
>it was a frame slower than them in VF2.
anyway, Jacky and Sarah selbom throw knees in acticipation of a MC,
most people start they moves with elbow as it is much safer and lots
of options. As for Wolf and Jeff, they usually don't throw knees just
like that. The best time for them to throw knee is after they have
gained initiative by blocking and they force the guessing game of BIG
throws or MC knee. That is NOT lion's style of play, at least not
mine. If lion waits and play defensive, he'll probable lose out as he
has both weaker throws and weaker kneed.
>Setting up Lion's knee should work the same as any of the others -- set a
>trap with a quick recovering attack, then go for the interrupt and float
>combo... of course you're taking some risk, but you're looking to start a
>big combo when you throw it out.
The way I set up knees with Wolf is a blocked high punch, mixed with
throws or knees (wolf recovers one frame faster when opponent blockes
his high punch) Else after I block elbow, I try giant swing or knee.
Both this methods doesn't work with lion as his rewards is too little.
Another thing, if lion gets interrupted in Knee, sometimes he floats
even by a high punch. Thirdly, people are well aware of Lion's more
speedy attacks and they'll KNOW what can interrupt Lion and thus they
use much faster attacks than when they fight Wolf. One more thing, if
I want to look for interrupt, b,b+K is the move to use for Lion not
knee as it has better execution, better recovery, better damage.
Alan Tan
From eflower@engsoc.carleton.ca Mon Jan 13 14:03:59 PST 1997
Article: 142427 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: eflower@engsoc.carleton.ca (Sitson Lee)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] last minute advice/prayers
Date: 11 Jan 1997 23:56:17 GMT
Organization: Carleton Engineering
Lines: 265
Message-ID: {5b99b1$adv@bertrand.ccs.carleton.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lager.engsoc.carleton.ca
NNTP-Posting-User: eflower
X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 BETA-950824-16colors PL0]
Status: RO
BigCat *meow* (usagi@cs.mcgill.ca) wrote:
: *groan* Gonna be another one of those posts, i think... Mostly to do with
: the experience that one player has had vs. anothers, but hey... as long
: as we're all here, we might as well argue, right?
Good point, and I think some points I shall make now would be more clear
to you when I drop by Montreal sometime soon.
: I'd actually call that throws backed up with poking, Jim. Poking, in
: itself, doesn't do a lot of damage, but it has the same defensive
: function as low punches did in VF2. Px has just incredibly stupid
: stopping power... i had it stop a D+KK yesterday, and i was on -lower-
: ground. As i maintain, throws are still pretty much king... not merely
: for damage, but also for positioning (which doesn't seem to be all that
: much of a priority in peoples books yet... *shrug*).
you just contradicted yourself here, BigCat. If you think Px have lots of
stopping power, how does it make throws king? In many cases where
you have setup a player for a throw, he/she 80% of the time can Px out
of it if they buttonmash if they know it's a setup. The fact is, with
Lion or any other character, it's always been poking/setups backed by
throws. One can't just throw during in-fight unless you have setup them
up or make them whiff. I suspect your thoughts on this matter due to the
sytle of play in Montreal which is very laid back and not at toe to toe.
Positioning is important, but it's a very fluid situation, and you can't
stay in one spot all the time. You take advantage of the terrain as it
comes and work your ways around them if it's against you.
: *shrug* It's not that i haven't, i guess the caliber of competition just
: isn't as fabulous as it is there, wherever "there" is. *smirk* That's the
: only obvious explanation, right? I'm just as concerned with things like
: b, f+P+G, which throws people close to halfway across the ring, and b,
: f+P+K, which just does horrendous damage when it hits... well, -if- it
: hits, i guess.
The way you should rank characters is not a present thing, but a long
range look at the character's potential! It's only a matter of time
before DLC's are like SPoDs for VF2 where almost everyone can do them.
All Akira needs is a elbowfloat +DLC to take 70% of your life. What other
character can float as easy and as fast as Akira with a (safe) mid attack?
: In order, probably Wolf, Lau, Jacky, Akira.
WOLF? Maybe second on a v3.0 machine,but not even halfway up the scale
for me on a 3.x machine. Wolf is slow in every way, and if the opponent
can get a good rush on you, you spend the time blocking as he has no
reliable interrupt unlike a low punch in VF2 in only 10 frames.
: > ]> And what's jacky got on lion? Fine, canned combos that aren't even as
: > ]> good as a smart G-cancelling lion :)
:
: *blink* i missed this the first time. What can Lion g-cancel? ... or did
: er... whoever it was just mean rolling combos?
I don't think Yupa means "real animated" G-cancels as Aoi. But a style of
singular attacks that COULD be followed thru as a combo. like his b+PP,
d/f+PP, d+KK. Only that only just execute the first move of hte combo and
depending on the situation follow through or act accordingly. Jo plays a
very effective Lion, with lots of singular attacks back by throws once
you get weary of which level to block his rush.
: Okay... maybe i'm just not advanced enough, but i don't notice that 2
: frames. I'll be honest... despite my number crunching earlier, i don't
: even really notice 5 frames, unless it means a block point in a combo.
: A 50pts, 12 frames of execution. That still seems pretty strong for
: pretty fast to me. I guess the big problem is this whole counterable
: business. *shrug* Right?
The more I read this post of yours BigCat I think style in Montreal is
lacking in-fight technqiues. Jacky has no chance to kickflip at 12
frames. I mean even an elbow beats the kickflip with 11frames of
execution.
: > ] four -different- motions on pretty equal throws...
: >
: > Not. Good Jacky's will just mix up the 2 knee throws (f,b and d/f,d/f) The
: > clothesline still sucks, unless you want to reverse the ring.
:
: f,b does 10+50... d/f,d/f does 10+40... granted, the clothesline is only
: 40, but it's 40 all at once. Do they still have counter modifiers?
: What's more, P+G is 50pts, all at once... yeah, it takes a while, but
: believe it or not, it's not that far off d/f. Okay... so i take it
: back. Three different motions on pretty equal throws.
it's not about damage in throws I find. It's about execution and risk
taking. Like I said earlier, if one see's throw attempts, one can punch
out of it the majority of the times. So exection speed is a factor. I
someitmes resent charavers with easy single joystick motion throws like
f+PG or d/f+PG and are hard to guess, when Jacky needs a double joystick
motion for his throws other than PG. You see the disadvantage here? You
see why throws are NOT king for certain characters?
: > ] D+KK...
: >
: > {???> Jacky has this *over* Lion? Huh? Neither is a true combo if the
: > first kick hits, right?
:
: I =think= both are combos if the first kick interrupts.
:
I think it's true that it's a combo only if you don't delay the second K.
: > ]Low Backfist...
: >
: > Give me a break. How many low attacks does Lion have compared to Jacky?
: > And Jacky can't do anything but pounce after the LBF now, and even that
: > isn't guaranteed.
:
: Gimme a break back. I went a little off on this one, and just listed his
: strengths rather than his "overs" on Lion, but the LBF is still a viable
: option... not as viable as, say, d+K+G and d/b+K from Lion, but certainly
: not bad.
:
How is the LBF a viable option, I'd like to know. It's good to give
reason after statement as I've only found few uses with the LBF as a Jacky
player.
: > ] HUGE float follow-up (PPEPK),
: >
: > Nah, it's not like you have many opportunities to do it successfully...
: > and with the decreasing power of longer float combos, a simple punt kick
: > and pounce will do more damage anyways... (22.5+30=52.5 vs. the PPEPdK's
: > 9+9+9.5+7.5+7=42) You'd be better off with a simple F+PPP, pounce (55 pts)
:
: Ohhhh-kay. *shrug*
It be more appropriate to list f+P instead of E as those from the pacific
rim may mistake it for a dodge.
: I was referring more to push, but i guess, given the new info (that, can
: i point out JUST came out about two days ago) on float damage modifiers,
: yes, the assertion that PPEPK is a good float follow is faulty.
Right on, one must also note that to land this float you must have the
correct terrain conditions to float specific lightweights of the game.
I've only land this float a few times against CPU Pai.
: Believe it or not, on the subject of rushing, i -prefer- the
: non-knockdown PPP, from a purely competitive perspective. Nearly the
: same damage (minus the ground punch), same speed, uncounterable. What i
: like the most about it, actually, is that it keeps your opponent
: standing, which ups the basic "damage speed" thing. What do i mean...
: er... against an idle opponent, if Lion PPP, d/f+P's repeatedly, and
: Jacky PPP's repeatedly, who will knock out first? (You can even assume
: the opponent struggles to get up) No brainer Oki is obviously a factor
: here... and this is not really as viable a point, but i'd just like to
: mention the little rumble in Vancouver. Henry was mentioning something
: about the risk being almost as great for the -standing- opponent in the
: 50-50 Rising kick situation. Anyhow, people should learn to get up
: without attacks anyhow... it's not like option select is still around.
: *shrug*
May I remind you, that getting up WITHOUT a ground attack, your character
is INSTANTLY vulernable to low attacks and then mid attacks shortly after.
Oki in VF3 is a complicated thing, which I thing which I won't discuss
now.
: To be honest, i really don't know. Does anyone low-throw counter this
: kick on a regular basis? Anyhow, to get back to the low-recovery
: argument CreeD and i were having (although we were, i think, on the same
: side *heh*), it's better than 28frames high. *shrug*
:
Low throwable, but I'm afraid it's one of those moves were you block low
and try to counter mid (standing) you've lost your time rising from a
crouch to take advantage of the recovering time. Just like Lau's f,d+K.
: Right. Problem is, my impression is that he still has to gamble a bit to
: make that trick work dramatically. Hmm... maybe switch between
: Elbow-heelkick and HBF-LBF? *shrug* (and throw, i guess)
Hmm... remember your statement about Px interrupts? i think that answers
it all.
: > Unfortunately, I still think there are more negatives to the new Jacky
: > than positives... not being able to take out huge chunks of life bar
: > without throwing (except for a kickflip interrupt, which doesn't work as
: > well as it used to) hurts him a lot.
:
: I don't know... i still find the Kickflip just as nice. Okay, maybe not
: -just- as nice, but not that far off. Certainly the Kickflip reversal
: isn't really a viable factor in the game, and E-Kickflip seems to work
: rather well, actually.
It's aways a gamble with kickflips unless it's a counter or open hit.
Plus you are not in position to OKi if connected.
: > ]About sweeps... I really don't think they're as big a deal as you say.
: > ]He's still got the LBF, he's still got the 'Slicer, can still kickflip
: > ]the crap out of just about anything.
: >
: > No, no, no... 12 frames of execution sucks! Many more attacks beat it
: > out of the box now...
:
: Punches are 8... elbows are 9... Lion's low pokes are, minimum, 10...
: Akira's DE and SDE are 10 (although you shouldn't be SDE'ing anymore,
: now, should you? *grin*)... Maybe i'm just not observant enough to notice
: the 2 frames. *shrug*
:
Where you get your frame stats? Punches are either 8,9 or 12. Elbows are
11 in general and 12 for Taka I think.
: > What Robertson was doing in Toronto last week was
: > an aberation, IMO. Robertson's saving grace is that he still has superior
: > *from crouching* machi skills. The guy can just sit there in front of you
: > crouching, and block almost any mid-attack on reflex... His months of
: > Tai-stepping practice are still paying off.
:
: Oh.
:
Oh, boring.
: Well, there's nothing i can really do about that, is there? I'm not in
: TO, and apparently, there's no one that even approaches him anywhere else
: on the continent.
Rush him if you can.
:
: Okay, fine, i'm being facetious and defensive, but against what i believe
: to be a very elitist attitude. I have a lot of respect for Robertson...
: he's not only a great player, but he's smart, and he learns. My point is
: that isn't there a possibility that people are getting better, elsewhere,
: and that progression in VF3 isn't as linear as, well... i'll admit it...
: *i* think? I don't notice 2 frames... i haven't dealt with heavy elbow
: staggerers... i don't think Akira is a big deal... It just happened that
: way.
I agree on whatyou said about ROb and even though it's kinda boring
playing him at times, it's still a style one must learn to fight.
On your point the way things are, it's just due to the scope of gameplay
in Montreal that limits your horizon. It's not that Montreal has no
talent, but if there is no to beat a particular style of play, it will
stay around and everyone will follow suit.
: I'd say that Jacky has options, like P-Sidekick and P-sweep.. HBF-sweep and
: HBF-Punt... LBF-Sweep and LBF-Kickflip... but i get this feeling i'm
: going to be told that these kinds of things can be blocked on reflex.
It's possible it can be blocked on reflex, but not all the time if the
Jacky is unpredictable. It's always been the fear of hte unknown for
Jacky players that led them wins. It's like the scrub in the Detriot
Tournament.
: > How can you rate Jacky so far ahead of Sarah?
:
: I don't play Sarah... that might have a lot to do with it.
Hm.. very baised rating of charcters then Bigcat.
--------------------------------------------
Sitson Lee
eflower@engsoc.carleton.ca
Faculty of Engineering, Carleton University
From tansh@singnet.com.sg Mon Jan 13 14:05:15 PST 1997
Article: 142484 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: tansh@singnet.com.sg (Alan Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] last minute advice/prayers
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:24:47 GMT
Organization: Singapore Telecom Internet Service
Lines: 84
Message-ID: {5bdf6d$1uj@lantana.singnet.com.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts900-4224.singnet.com.sg
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: RO
eflower@engsoc.carleton.ca (Sitson Lee) wrote:
>you just contradicted yourself here, BigCat. If you think Px have lots of
>stopping power, how does it make throws king? In many cases where
>you have setup a player for a throw, he/she 80% of the time can Px out
>of it if they buttonmash if they know it's a setup. The fact is, with
>Lion or any other character, it's always been poking/setups backed by
>throws. One can't just throw during in-fight unless you have setup them
>up or make them whiff. I suspect your thoughts on this matter due to the
>sytle of play in Montreal which is very laid back and not at toe to toe.
that's exactly what I was trying to say to Yupa when he said Lion's
knee is viable option. When I use a quick recovery move like d/f+P,
people are sooo paranoid that I throw them, they either hit p on
reflex or crouch.
>Positioning is important, but it's a very fluid situation, and you can't
>stay in one spot all the time. You take advantage of the terrain as it
>comes and work your ways around them if it's against you.
mmm... especially for Lion. On high ground, you can do the
bb+K,P+K,bb+K,P+K, high pounce even on a minor counter which is LOTS
of damage for a successful dodge.
>The way you should rank characters is not a present thing, but a long
>range look at the character's potential! It's only a matter of time
>before DLC's are like SPoDs for VF2 where almost everyone can do them.
>All Akira needs is a elbowfloat +DLC to take 70% of your life. What other
>character can float as easy and as fast as Akira with a (safe) mid attack?
70%??? not that much right. I think the DLC may not connect after
every f,f+P float. The fff+P is allows more chance of connecting but
it is counterable. so people will just use ff+P most of the time which
by the way is not as far which is quite impt. another thing, DLC,
IMHO, will be harder to execute in tournaments when you are really
nervous. much harder than SPoD for the simple reason that usually you
have ample warning when to do the SPoD, ie after you block some major
move. DLC on the other hand got to be on reflex. But I'm still sure
people will master it but not me :)
>WOLF? Maybe second on a v3.0 machine,but not even halfway up the scale
>for me on a 3.x machine. Wolf is slow in every way, and if the opponent
>can get a good rush on you, you spend the time blocking as he has no
>reliable interrupt unlike a low punch in VF2 in only 10 frames.
mmm... perhaps you can give an example of a good rush? I'm sure there
are always gaps... as mid attacks like elbow if blocked give Wolf
initiative. High attacks makes one vulnerable to low kick. And there
are always a dodge.
>I don't think Yupa means "real animated" G-cancels as Aoi. But a style of
>singular attacks that COULD be followed thru as a combo. like his b+PP,
>d/f+PP, d+KK. Only that only just execute the first move of hte combo and
>depending on the situation follow through or act accordingly. Jo plays a
>very effective Lion, with lots of singular attacks back by throws once
>you get weary of which level to block his rush.
mm... can you pls say more on Lion?? or rather mail me the info so
that Zengzi will not read it. haha... btw, I got past the prelims for
the Max battle using Lion and the winner will be decided on 25th. but
it was such an ugly match cuz people are soo nervous. I beat this Kage
by just using d/b+K. :) now the man to beat is Zengzi's Lau but he
still have not qualified as his prelim is on 18th. I know a lot of
people will be happy if there is an upset :)
>May I remind you, that getting up WITHOUT a ground attack, your character
>is INSTANTLY vulernable to low attacks and then mid attacks shortly after.
>Oki in VF3 is a complicated thing, which I thing which I won't discuss
>now.
ya it is kind of funny huh. The real safe way is to roll back now.
Roll forward is suicide. Roll side is kind of dangerous as you may are
vulnerable to attacks if you don't attack.
>Low throwable, but I'm afraid it's one of those moves were you block low
>and try to counter mid (standing) you've lost your time rising from a
>crouch to take advantage of the recovering time. Just like Lau's f,d+K.
actually Lau's f,d+K is NOT throwable on many occasions. It is one of
those invincible moves. sheesh how can people complain abt Lion's
d/b+K...
Alan Tan
From hkong@intergate.bc.ca Mon Jan 13 14:17:26 PST 1997
Article: 142494 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: hkong@intergate.bc.ca (Moby)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: VF3 skilled players/strategy
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 22:30:24 GMT
Organization: Evil Ninja Moby HQ
Lines: 27
Message-ID: {5bbp0m$67t@carrera.intergate.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm5s13.intergate.bc.ca
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99b.112
Status: RO
On 12 Jan 1997 18:11:16 GMT, tlawson@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca (Tyler Lawson)
wrote:
>Obligatory VF3:
>
>Can Lion's kickflippy throw (D,f+P+G) be followed up with anything? It
>seems to leave the other guy in a 'bounce' stage for quite some time.
I thought the followups to this throw were common knowledge by
now? I guess the good stuff hasn't reached Calgary yet. :)
Anyways, you can followup the kickflip throw with d+K,K, u/f+K
for an additional 52 points of damage, making the total a whopping 102
points of damage for this throw. Keep in mind that the followups do not
ALWAYS hit in every circumstance, but they do most of the time.
This is essentially Lion's most damaging throw, because he
cannot tack on ANY followups after the piggyfront now, unlike VF2.
+--------------------------------+
| EnTRoPy in the U.K.... |
| Say You Want A ReVoLUtIoN | "Big Brother is watching you....
+--------------------------------+ Learn to become Invisible."
Moby * Henry Kong - KING MOB
hkong@intergate.bc.ca
From archang@sfu.ca Mon Jan 13 14:17:37 PST 1997
Article: 142473 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: archang@sfu.ca (Andrew Ryan Chang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: VF3 skilled players/strategy
Date: 13 Jan 1997 07:09:16 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University
Lines: 16
Message-ID: {5bcn2s$b19@morgoth.sfu.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fraser.sfu.ca
Status: RO
Moby {hkong@intergate.bc.ca> wrote:
>>Can Lion's kickflippy throw (D,f+P+G) be followed up with anything? It
>>seems to leave the other guy in a 'bounce' stage for quite some time.
>
> Anyways, you can followup the kickflip throw with d+K,K, u/f+K
>for an additional 52 points of damage, making the total a whopping 102
>points of damage for this throw. Keep in mind that the followups do not
>ALWAYS hit in every circumstance, but they do most of the time.
>
> This is essentially Lion's most damaging throw, because he
>cannot tack on ANY followups after the piggyfront now, unlike VF2.
Umm... I don't play much lately, what with maybe two non-smoking
arcades in the city having the game, but which throws can Lion pounce
after? How about 80% pounce? How about u/f+K pounce or d/f+P "pounce"?
From hkong@intergate.bc.ca Mon Jan 13 14:18:15 PST 1997
Article: 142475 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: hkong@intergate.bc.ca (Moby)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: VF3 skilled players/strategy
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 07:31:51 GMT
Organization: Evil Ninja Moby HQ
Lines: 60
Message-ID: {5bcono$2jj@carrera.intergate.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm12s6.intergate.bc.ca
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99b.112
Status: RO
On 13 Jan 1997 07:09:16 GMT, archang@sfu.ca (Andrew Ryan Chang) wrote:
> Umm... I don't play much lately, what with maybe two non-smoking
>arcades in the city having the game, but which throws can Lion pounce
>after? How about 80% pounce? How about u/f+K pounce or d/f+P "pounce"?
Okay, here's a little table on Lion's throws and possible followups:
Kickflip throw (50 pts):
- d+K,K, u/f+K is pretty much guaranteed, as mentioned earlier in this
thread
- Heavy pounce (d,u+P) is also very likely, but not as damaging as above
f,f+P+G throw (45 pts):
- u/f+K is very likely, but not guaranteed; victim must struggle to escape
- d/f+P is guaranteed only if victim lies face down; if they lie face up,
they can kip-up to avoid ground punches (not sure how they fall)
Side throw (40 pts):
- d/f+P is guaranteed, because opponent falls face down
P+G throw (50 pts):
- d/f+P is guaranteed
Back throw (50 pts):
- u/f+K is very likely, although also escapable with hard struggling
- Low pounce is possible, but less likely
b,f+P+G throw (50 pts):
- No followups possible
Piggyfront throw (70 pts):
- No followups possible
d/f+P+G throw (no damage):
- Possible followups beyond the scope of this post :)
b+P+G (50 pts):
- d/f+P is guaranteed
u/f+P+G (45 pts):
- No followups possible
u/f+P+G Wall throw (50 pts):
- d/f+P is guaranteed, low pounce might also be guaranteed
**Note: In all cases, if I don't mention a possible followup for a throw,
then it's not guaranteed. And when I mention "no followups possible",
this of course assumes your opponent is struggling to get up; if they're
just lying there like a dufus, then you can pick your ground attack of
choice. :)
+--------------------------------+
| EnTRoPy in the U.K.... |
| Say You Want A ReVoLUtIoN | "Big Brother is watching you....
+--------------------------------+ Learn to become Invisible."
Moby * Henry Kong - KING MOB
hkong@intergate.bc.ca
From tlawson@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca Mon Jan 13 14:18:45 PST 1997
Article: 142491 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: tlawson@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca (Tyler Lawson)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: VF3 skilled players/strategy
Date: 13 Jan 1997 14:13:14 GMT
Organization: The University of Calgary
Lines: 26
Message-ID: {5bdftq$am8@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: tlawson@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: RO
Moby (hkong@intergate.bc.ca) wrote:
: >Obligatory VF3:
: >
: >Can Lion's kickflippy throw (D,f+P+G) be followed up with anything? It
: >seems to leave the other guy in a 'bounce' stage for quite some time.
[snip silly trash talk]
: Anyways, you can followup the kickflip throw with d+K,K, u/f+K
: for an additional 52 points of damage, making the total a whopping 102
: points of damage for this throw. Keep in mind that the followups do not
: ALWAYS hit in every circumstance, but they do most of the time.
Argh ... no, I meant INTERESTING followups! Sweeps! Lunging sweeps!
Thrusting pokes and other such stuff. Something to make people go "hey,
neat" rather than "let me get up, you're such a cheap bastard." ;)
: This is essentially Lion's most damaging throw, because he
: cannot tack on ANY followups after the piggyfront now, unlike VF2.
neeto.
--
---- Tyler (Phenglei) at the University of Calgary.
("bah weep gra-na weep ninny-bon!")
From tansh@singnet.com.sg Mon Jan 13 14:26:57 PST 1997
Article: 142496 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: tansh@singnet.com.sg (Alan Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] Newbie Throwing Questions
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:24:36 GMT
Organization: Singapore Telecom Internet Service
Lines: 11
Message-ID: {5bdf61$1uj@lantana.singnet.com.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts900-4224.singnet.com.sg
Status: RO
rspykrmn@tcd.ie (Robert F. Spykerman) wrote:
>Well, I can confirm that Lion's u/f+p+g is definitely not a catch throw,
>the way Sarah's is. It should be reversible, but since I almost never
>use it, I've never seen it done.
it is reversible. Seen it before. forgot abt animation but sen it
before.
Alan Tan
From tansh@singnet.com.sg Mon Jan 13 14:27:24 PST 1997
Article: 142483 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: tansh@singnet.com.sg (Alan Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.sega,rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [Virtua Fighter 3] Akira
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 06:24:38 GMT
Organization: Singapore Telecom Internet Service
Lines: 19
Message-ID: {5bdf62$1uj@lantana.singnet.com.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts900-4224.singnet.com.sg
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Xref: agate rec.games.video.sega:218177 rec.games.video.arcade:142483
Status: RO
crs1219@inforamp.net (Donny CHAN) wrote:
>In article {32D5C2E2.41C6@dreamworks.com>,
> David Navarro {dnavar@dreamworks.com> wrote:
>]> ]Akira's yoho-yoho-yoho is also pretty sick... :)
>]>
>]> In Vipers-type Game Type, it floats real high.
>]
>]I'm pretty sure I'm playing in VF mode... Is it possible to nail three
>]in a row in VF3?
>Unlikely, but then I never tried three consecutive Youhous.
you'll never know. The mag I've seen states it is possible for connect
FOUR lion FC,f+P or four taka FC,d/f+P under certain specific
conditions, ie MC against Pai on her steep sloped stage.
Alan Tan
From hkong@intergate.bc.ca Tue Jan 14 04:17:22 PST 1997
Article: 142580 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: hkong@intergate.bc.ca (Moby)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: VF3--jeff's boxthrow, axekick.
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 10:40:02 GMT
Organization: Evil Ninja Moby HQ
Lines: 42
Message-ID: {5bfo4b$ilu$1@carrera.intergate.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9s14.intergate.bc.ca
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99b.112
Status: RO
On Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:28:00 -0500, GodEater {yu132653@yorku.ca> wrote:
>
>this is one of my staples after the boxthrow and so
>far i haven't had anyone escape it...not even the
>computer which will escape sidekicks and bigboots.
>the axekixk comes out in 21 frames whereas the
>sidekick lands in 16...what's going on? i only
>play about every third weekend (although it is
>picking up now) so there's not much time to
>experiment but if anyone could test this i would
>appreciate it :)
The problem with this is that, as shown by what happened
in Vancouver, the possibility of the Backbreaker after the box throw
being guaranteed is still not a settled issue.... at least on our versions
of VF3. That being the case, people here don't even CARE to try
alternative followups to the box throw. Their reasoning is, "Why should
I experiment with other followups when the backbreaker seems to be
guaranteed?"
Of course, I understand their reasoning, but it definitely makes
matches less interesting than they could be. That's why I'm =still=
fervently hoping that the backbreaker is NOT guaranteed; then Jeffry
players will use different (and hopefully, creative) followups everytime,
just like Lion players with the "under-the-legs" throw. Having =any=
big-damage, guaranteed followup after such a throw is a major mistake,
IMHO. Just like I think the DLC is a major mistake (being the no-brainer,
big-damage float combo of choice), but that's another topic for another
thread. :)
But GodEater, if I can figure out if the axekick is escapable (I
don't think it is, BTW), I'll let you know. :)
+--------------------------------+
| EnTRoPy in the U.K.... |
| Say You Want A ReVoLUtIoN | "Big Brother is watching you....
+--------------------------------+ Learn to become Invisible."
Moby * Henry Kong - KING MOB
hkong@intergate.bc.ca
From tansh@singnet.com.sg Tue Jan 14 04:23:06 PST 1997
Article: 142586 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: tansh@singnet.com.sg (Alan Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: VF3 skilled players/strategy
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 04:04:31 GMT
Organization: Singapore Telecom Internet Service
Lines: 55
Message-ID: {5bfrba$pms@lantana.singnet.com.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts900-1403.singnet.com.sg
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: RO
hkong@intergate.bc.ca (Moby) wrote:
my machine is VF3.0
> Okay, here's a little table on Lion's throws and possible followups:
>Kickflip throw (50 pts):
>- d+K,K, u/f+K is pretty much guaranteed, as mentioned earlier in this
>thread
u/f+K is pretty not much guaranteed. The d+K,K pushes opponent too far
back and a back roll can dodge the u/f+K.
>- Heavy pounce (d,u+P) is also very likely, but not as damaging as above
>f,f+P+G throw (45 pts):
>- u/f+K is very likely, but not guaranteed; victim must struggle to escape
confirmed 100%. never seen anyone escape it.
>- d/f+P is guaranteed only if victim lies face down; if they lie face up,
>they can kip-up to avoid ground punches (not sure how they fall)
>Side throw (40 pts):
>- d/f+P is guaranteed, because opponent falls face down
>P+G throw (50 pts):
>- d/f+P is guaranteed
not really. doesn't hit if opponent stay put.
>Back throw (50 pts):
>- u/f+K is very likely, although also escapable with hard struggling
confirmed 100%. never seen anyone got up.
>- Low pounce is possible, but less likely
>b,f+P+G throw (50 pts):
>- No followups possible
>Piggyfront throw (70 pts):
>- No followups possible
u/f+k is highly possible.
>d/f+P+G throw (no damage):
>- Possible followups beyond the scope of this post :)
>b+P+G (50 pts):
>- d/f+P is guaranteed
>u/f+P+G (45 pts):
>- No followups possible
>u/f+P+G Wall throw (50 pts):
>- d/f+P is guaranteed, low pounce might also be guaranteed
Alan Tan
From mcblab47@leonis.nus.sg Tue Jan 14 13:58:34 PST 1997
Article: 142613 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: mcblab47@leonis.nus.sg (Chia Jin Ngee)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: VF3 skilled players/strategy
Date: 13 Jan 1997 10:19:28 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore
Lines: 22
Message-ID: {5bd27g$cl2@nuscc.nus.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: mcblab47@leonis.nus.sg
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: RO
Distribution:
Tyler Lawson (tlawson@acs5.acs.ucalgary.ca) wrote:
: Obligatory VF3:
: Can Lion's kickflippy throw (D,f+P+G) be followed up with anything? It
: seems to leave the other guy in a 'bounce' stage for quite some time.
Follow up with d+K,K. Will hit the falling flopping feet of the victim.
If the victim is a very poor struggler, u/f+K pounce. Doing a d+K,K does
more damage than the flip throw and u/f+K pounce.
--
Jin Ngee, Chia
(Genie, the OligoMan)
mcblab47@leonis.nus.sg
Views and opinions expressed are solely mine and not of my employer's.
Any further grievances can be settled over a Virtua Fighter 3 match.
From hkong@intergate.bc.ca Tue Jan 14 14:48:02 PST 1997
Article: 142618 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: hkong@intergate.bc.ca (Moby)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: VF3 skilled players/strategy
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 21:54:07 GMT
Organization: Evil Ninja Moby HQ
Lines: 54
Message-ID: {5bgvk6$83a$2@carrera.intergate.bc.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pm9s26.intergate.bc.ca
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99b.112
Status: RO
On Wed, 15 Jan 1997 04:04:31 GMT, tansh@singnet.com.sg (Alan Tan) wrote:
>>Kickflip throw (50 pts):
>>- d+K,K, u/f+K is pretty much guaranteed, as mentioned earlier in this
>>thread
>u/f+K is pretty not much guaranteed. The d+K,K pushes opponent too far
>back and a back roll can dodge the u/f+K.
I've tried the back roll countless times, and I've never escaped it.
Come to think of it, I've never seen anybody escape this combo, if it was
executed properly. Perhaps another difference between versions? {shrug>
>>f,f+P+G throw (45 pts):
>>- u/f+K is very likely, but not guaranteed; victim must struggle to escape
>confirmed 100%. never seen anyone escape it.
Again, I've seen people escape this, including myself. I think
either a back roll (or maybe it was a side roll) escaped it... I'll
experiment with this again.
>>P+G throw (50 pts):
>>- d/f+P is guaranteed
>not really. doesn't hit if opponent stay put.
It's guaranteed here; all you have to do is back up a little bit
(as Lion), then ground swipe. The opponent cannot even kip up to
evade the ground punch, at least from what I've seen.
>>Piggyfront throw (70 pts):
>>- No followups possible
>u/f+k is highly possible.
Interesting!
It's too bad that unlike VF2, there are apparently so many
different versions of VF3 around the world. It's really hard to
determine absolute truths in this game, which I think is rather
important. Ah well, to anybody who's brave enough to write a FAQ of
all combos (floating or otherwise), I sincerely hope there isn't too
much variation of possiblities between the versions; for your sake. :)
+--------------------------------+
| EnTRoPy in the U.K.... |
| Say You Want A ReVoLUtIoN | "Big Brother is watching you....
+--------------------------------+ Learn to become Invisible."
Moby * Henry Kong - KING MOB
hkong@intergate.bc.ca
From rspykrmn@tcd.ie Wed Jan 15 15:45:38 PST 1997
Article: 142675 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: rspykrmn@tcd.ie (Robert F. Spykerman)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] Lion stuff (was last minute advice/prayers)
Date: 14 Jan 1997 19:56:09 GMT
Organization: University of Dublin, Trinity College
Lines: 42
Message-ID: {5bgocp$m9p@web3.tcd.ie>
NNTP-Posting-Host: alf2.tcd.ie
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #8 (NOV)
Status: RO
In {Pine.SUN.3.91.970110235908.11433B-100000@marge.cs.mcgill.ca>
BigCat *meow* {usagi@cs.mcgill.ca> writes:
>> IMO, Lion's MC-low kick isn't that great (if someone can prove me wrong,
>> I'd be very grateful). It doesn't seem to stun long enough that a throw
>> is 100% guaranteed - this is quite evident, at least to me, when I've
>> played some new people who mash on the buttons.
>It's 100% guaranteed... i'm 90% sure of that :>
*scratch* *scratch* Hmmm... There's something DEFINITELY something wrong
with that sentence of yours, I think.... :)
But seriously... I must conduct further experiments the next time I
play. I'm pretty sure it's not guaranteed. But the machine here is a
version A - nah... I doubt they'd have done that... Alan, do you think
Lion's low-kick MC into throw is guaranteed since you play VF3.0 back in
Spore as well?
One other question. d/f+p as a MC - is there a difference in the sound?
I have not heard any clear differences... How can one tell if it MC's?
If there's a way?....
>> >BigCat
>> > - VF3 Lion Newbie
>>
>> Really? Heh!
>>
>> Robert
>> - REAL, bonafide VF3 Lion Newbie
>I'm only just gettin' there... you're probably just as good as i am. *shrug*
Ah, you're just being humble, you are! ;) I've fingers like bananas,
I'll have you know!!! Plus I've not been playing for nearly 2 weeks
now.. sigh... study... study... study... study....
Rob
--
"Life is..." . . . . . . dream light-years
. . . . . challenge miles
RF Spykerman . . walk... .. .
- rspykrmn@tcd.ie . . . . .. ...step by step
From tansh@singnet.com.sg Thu Jan 16 17:29:06 PST 1997
Article: 142761 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: tansh@singnet.com.sg (Alan Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] Lion stuff (was last minute advice/prayers)
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 04:42:40 GMT
Organization: Singapore Telecom Internet Service
Lines: 30
Message-ID: {5bl6an$l5v@lantana.singnet.com.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts900-3507.singnet.com.sg
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: RO
rspykrmn@tcd.ie (Robert F. Spykerman) wrote:
>>It's 100% guaranteed... i'm 90% sure of that :>
>*scratch* *scratch* Hmmm... There's something DEFINITELY something wrong
>with that sentence of yours, I think.... :)
>But seriously... I must conduct further experiments the next time I
>play. I'm pretty sure it's not guaranteed. But the machine here is a
>version A - nah... I doubt they'd have done that... Alan, do you think
>Lion's low-kick MC into throw is guaranteed since you play VF3.0 back in
>Spore as well?
it is definately not guaranteed. I'm 90% sure of that too.
>One other question. d/f+p as a MC - is there a difference in the sound?
>I have not heard any clear differences... How can one tell if it MC's?
>If there's a way?....
is the MC d/f+P throw guaranteed? I've tried actual controled
experiments like I block opponent elbow, ask him to P immediately, I
d/f+P then throw while he mashes P button. I could not get the throw
in. maybe my timing is wrong but the uncertainity of the move have
actually led me to abandon it. I rely heavily on elbows.
Alan Tan
From tansh@singnet.com.sg Fri Jan 17 14:34:51 PST 1997
Article: 142856 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: tansh@singnet.com.sg (Alan Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: VF3.somthing hits Singapore
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:47:49 GMT
Organization: Singapore Telecom Internet Service
Lines: 38
Message-ID: {5bnr08$73p@lantana.singnet.com.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts900-7222.singnet.com.sg
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: RO
I DON'T BELEIVE IT! THEY ARE USING VF3.SOMETHING FOR THE COMPETITION
ON SAT. boy am I pissed.
after like spending hours and hours learning Lion, now they brought in
this new version and all the old version are gone. Lion seems totally
changed.
I would appreciate some help on the properties of new Lion.
Firstly the thing that I like to know the most is abt d/b+K. In my old
version, I can get hit by a high punch from Jacky and immediately do
d/b+K and still dodge the elbow. Thus my main weapon for getting out
of rushes is d/b+K. This dodging ability seems to be REDUCED. I even
thought I was being high P outof d/b+K. Is it true?? How do Lion
usually play?? do you people use d/b+K as an attack stopper?? It soo
funny seeing Pai go flying away after a normal hit of d/b+K. now I
know hy you people cannot follow d/b+K with a u/f+K.
noticed the differance in throws followup. I know why the d+K,K,u/f+K
followup will work after the kickflip throw. It seems that d+K,K
pushes the opponent much less in the new version and thus the opponent
cannot roll back to avoid the pounce.
I would really like to know how lion should be played, if his d/b+K is
no longer soo powerful. My lion hinges on two moves, PPP,down+K,u/f+K
and the handstand kicks. now both are gone. sigh.
one thing very impt is what Lion should do if he does not have
initiative and opponent is rushing you. I used to do the d/b+K all the
time.
differance between versions.
Wolf's pickup throw is missed takes AGES to recover.
One very interesting to try for WOlf.
when you hit b,f+P+K:
do the spinning punch (semicircle back + P) then b,f+P.
I will not say what this is for but something advantages should
happen.
Alan Tan
wow is Lion Being improved.
Improvements from VF2.
Ability to float by DOWN, f+P. That followup with for+P,P,u/f+K pushes
the opponent a LOT (not to mention GOOD damage). Trust me. Lion has the best
pushing ability in VF3
now, IMO. This is because of this move for+P,P which comes out as fast as
and elbow and pushes you FAR even if you block. Its uncounterable
somemore. so if I manage to block your counter, a second for+P,P may RO
you. That move also gave Lion a very good option after a down P. In VF2,
Lion does not have a fast and foos move after a down P so people like
Akira can actually hit Lion with a dashing elbow even after taking a low
punch. But now people is scared to twitch after a down+P hit cuz the
for+P move float after a counter.
Fast punch. VERY IMPT. VERY very impt.
Good damage from PPP,u/f+K counter or as a followup from sidekick stagger.
U/F+K as a very GOOD pounce. In fact you can do it repeatedly as it is
kind of very diffucult to get up fast enuff. A bit cheap so I only use
once. but the whole point is you can do it almost everytime you knock the
opponent down. It is that fast. Whats more it squishes the opponent on
the floor so that you can actually RO by using this move.
Very GOOD throw in f,f+P+G. EASY to do, can be followup woth u/f+K which
gives you GOOD damage. As much as facegrab.
Still as fast as ever.
Many new variations, esp PP,down+P and backP,P,K (the kick can be
delayed)
Sidekick can float!!
Other characters become weaker as things like PK is not knock down but
Lion can PPP and still u/f+K after that. All from a P counter!!!
What more can you want.....
From mcblab47@leonis.nus.sg Sun Nov 3 21:56:30 1996
Date: 28 Oct 1996 09:40:47 GMT
From: Chia Jin Ngee {mcblab47@leonis.nus.sg>
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: VF3: Lion's d/f+P+G Flowchart & Aoi aout-select
Status: RO
Jirawat Uttayaya (jirawat@hep01.phys.ufl.edu) wrote:
: Here's some things to try after Lion's d/f+P+G haikasenten throw
: -the slide between the legs one. I don't think any of these are
: guaranteed combos, but are good tries against the unwary beginner.
: Thanks to Hiraaoka Kanji of the OKI Electric Industry CO. R&D
: division (kanji@okilabb.oki.co.jp)
: a) d/f+P+G --> 6+E --> f, f+K+K
: b) d/f+P+G --> 6+E --> f+K --> d/b+K
: c) d/f+P+G --> 6+E --> f+K -->P, P, d+P
: d) d/f+P+G --> 6+E --> f+K --> f+P, P
: e) d/f+P+G --> b, d/f+P --> D_, f+P --> b, d/f+P
: f) d/f+P+G --> b, d/f+P --> u+P, K --> d+K, K
: Flowchart e & f only works if b, d/f+P hits as a counter.
: Flow b, c, d are floats after the knee.
: After Lion's d/f+P+G:
: Opponent Lion (You)
: 1. Crouches f+E, f+K : Run and Knee
: 2. Runs Away f+E or f,f f+E, f+K
: 3. Turn-Around Hi Attack f+K or b, d/f+P for a high float
: 4. Turn-Around Low Attack A little trouble
: 5. Shun's back throw A bit more trouble
: 6. Escape E or d+E Impossible! (His joke, not mine)
: Someone suggested a hop attack for 4, a P, P, P combo for 5, and
: any one of Lion's sweep for 6.
I believe all these moves are great but quite useless. The best follow-up
I've seen is b+P,P,K. Two twisting low pecks and a spinning mid-kick. The
last kick does quite sizeable damage. E-ing won't do. The combo has Lion
twisting from side to side before the spinning kick. Any E-ing opponent
will be pecked and kicked to pieces. A low TT attack is the answer but if
he does other follow-ups, that's it. Unlike Akira's SE whereby running
away is the best gambled option (assuming no Tai-step moves), running
will be the worse thing to do. You have to TT low. If he just crouches
and waits, ugh! Get ready to be pecked and poked or happy danced to death.
The dash distance to get away is a little too short to get away from this
move.
The recent get-together has seen a Lion player (the one players avoided),
doing this. Frustratingly painful to see this happen.
It is like Lion has gained a SE equivalent better than Akira. Wu Meng has
mentioned in VF2 days that Kage is perverse. Lion may usurp Kage's honor
in this field :)
His low pecks has made his moves sorta like auto Tai-step moves. Hard to
hit, hard to throw, and hard to pursue.
--
Jin Ngee, Chia
(Genie, the OligoMan)
mcblab47@leonis.nus.sg
Views and opinions expressed are solely mine and not of my employer's.
Any further grievances can be settled over a Virtua Fighter 3 match.
From jirawat@hep01.phys.ufl.eduFri Oct 25 22:08:04 1996
Date: 21 Oct 1996 17:09:25 GMT
From: Jirawat Uttayaya {jirawat@hep01.phys.ufl.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: VF3: Lion's d/f+P+G Flowchart & Aoi aout-select
Status: RO
Here's some things to try after Lion's d/f+P+G haikasenten throw
-the slide between the legs one. I don't think any of these are
guaranteed combos, but are good tries against the unwary beginner.
Thanks to Hiraaoka Kanji of the OKI Electric Industry CO. R&D
division (kanji@okilabb.oki.co.jp)
a) d/f+P+G --> 6+E --> f, f+K+K
b) d/f+P+G --> 6+E --> f+K --> d/b+K
c) d/f+P+G --> 6+E --> f+K -->P, P, d+P
d) d/f+P+G --> 6+E --> f+K --> f+P, P
e) d/f+P+G --> b, d/f+P --> D_, f+P --> b, d/f+P
f) d/f+P+G --> b, d/f+P --> u+P, K --> d+K, K
Flowchart e & f only works if b, d/f+P hits as a counter.
Flow b, c, d are floats after the knee.
After Lion's d/f+P+G:
Opponent Lion (You)
1. Crouches f+E, f+K : Run and Knee
2. Runs Away f+E or f,f f+E, f+K
3. Turn-Around Hi Attack f+K or b, d/f+P for a high float
4. Turn-Around Low Attack A little trouble
5. Shun's back throw A bit more trouble
6. Escape E or d+E Impossible! (His joke, not mine)
Someone suggested a hop attack for 4, a P, P, P combo for 5, and
any one of Lion's sweep for 6.
Remember the old auto select from VF2, ie Sarah's f, f+P either came
out as a elbow or clothesline depending on the situation. Well it's
back in VF3. For Aoi, her P, P, f+P+G either comes out as a f+P
guard cancel or a throw.
At close range: f+P, P+G is useful
At mid range: P, P, f+P+G is good
] Lion is a big question mark for me. I don't play the bugger. Offhand,
] I say you should reverse f+P+G a lot since the natural throw that
] results from a forward dash will be the f,f+P+G throw. On the other
] hand, if the lion is good and can get off the catscratch combo a lot,
] you should watch out for frequent "frontal piggyback" throws which are
] done as a half circle back plus P+G. Since this throw is also harder
] to escape and it sometimes gets a pounce {right? or maybe not any
] more?> it will probably be used by good lion players frequently.
] Finally, I would expect lion's position switch throw. Knowing the
] trend sega has shown regarding shun and lion, I wouldn't be surprised
] if there's some killer stuff to be gotten after this throw. IIRC, the
] motion to escape it is d/f+P+G. b+P+G is a good throw, but don't
] worry about it since your f,b+P+G throw escape doubles as a b+P+G
] escape.
I was wondering about this... is it true that a f,b+P+G reversal attempt
also doubles as a simple b+P+G reversal? It may not...
Anyways, good Lion's will also be looking to connect the FC,f+P+G throw
because it has great damage potential with a d+K[K],u/f+K added to it.
Don't fret, however, becasuse f+P+G covers both this throw and his f,f+P+G
throw.
From tansh@singnet.com.sg Mon Jan 20 02:21:48 PST 1997
Article: 143061 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: tansh@singnet.com.sg (Alan Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: VF3: Best combos from which character?
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 04:47:48 GMT
Organization: Singapore Telecom Internet Service
Lines: 24
Message-ID: {5bnr06$73p@lantana.singnet.com.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts900-7222.singnet.com.sg
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: R
Chris {caliburn@cyberway.com.sg> wrote:
>After previewing the combos from most of the guys here,I began to
>wonder who has the best float combos around. Is it Lau, Jacky or Akira?
> In my opinion,I prefer Lau as his floating styles have various
>patterns. Gotta look at Creed's Lau combos in order to see Lau's
>destructive power.
mmm... but his combos are hard to begin, ie chances of a hit K+G is
not much.
Lion's bb+K,P+K,bb+K,P+K,high pounce works better, almost the same
damage, and require only high ground OR MC.
> Akira is good at floats, but he is severely limited to DLC only
>combos. Am I wrong?
> Lastly, Jacky is greatly elaborated with the 100% combo provided by
>the guys here. If you have followed the RGVA, some guys wrote about
>Jacky doing knee kick mc then followed up by the famous 5 hitter.
Is there a 100% combo?? Where got??
Alan Tan
From tansh@singnet.com.sg Mon Jan 20 05:10:39 PST 1997
Article: 142953 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: tansh@singnet.com.sg (Alan Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] last minute advice/prayers
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 06:05:28 GMT
Organization: Singapore Telecom Internet Service
Lines: 46
Message-ID: {5bt89m$1cd@lantana.singnet.com.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts900-1730.singnet.com.sg
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: R
yupasawa@aol.com (Yupasawa) wrote:
>You said it yourself then: Lion's PPP,d/f+P does 44 pts, and comes out in
>10 frames. The kickflip is not something Jacky has over Lion, IMO.
Why would Jacky uses the kickflip?? I'm still VERY PISSED off that
sega had toned down lion so ureasonably. One THERE IS NO READON to
remove lion PPP followup. Even the d+K,u/f+P does only 60+ damage. How
abt Jacky's PPelbowkick pounce?????? shit.
>Am I suppose to read your mind? You stated at the top, "What's Jacky got
>on Lion... what's Jacky got on Lion..." I agree with many of these points
>as Jacky's "strengths", but that's not what I'm arguing about here... I
>thought we were talking Jacky stuff vs. Lion stuff.
just one move PP elbow kick pounce.
>]Believe it or not, on the subject of rushing, i -prefer- the
>]non-knockdown PPP, from a purely competitive perspective. Nearly the
>]same damage (minus the ground punch), same speed, uncounterable. What i
>]like the most about it, actually, is that it keeps your opponent
>]standing, which ups the basic "damage speed" thing. What do i mean...
>]er... against an idle opponent, if Lion PPP, d/f+P's repeatedly, and
>]Jacky PPP's repeatedly, who will knock out first? (You can even assume
>]the opponent struggles to get up)
>Jacky, of course. This is another way you can justify life bars feeling
>longer for you...
>But Jacky's PPP isn't that great simply because the combo ends there...
>ah, but we could talk about his PPElbow, I guess...
sigh There is two Jackys in the tournament. One is not VERY GOOD but
another one is very strong. One thing. Do you people think it is fair
if I was knocked out in one of the prelims and I went to another one
to play and I managed to get into the final round?? The good Jacky did
that and I wonder if it's ethical.
>Not from me, but Lion can do a "sweep" from the word go, at any time he
>wants. Jacky cannot. That was my point.
sigh but now the sweep is UTTERLY useless. I get my d/b+K interrupted
by HIGH KICKS. argghhh!
Alan Tan
From ChrisTan@POBoxes.com Mon Jan 20 05:11:19 PST 1997
Article: 142962 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: Christopher Tan {ChrisTan@POBoxes.com>
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] last minute advice/prayers
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 09:17:52 -0500
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 55
Message-ID: {32E22D10.776E@POBoxes.com>
Reply-To: ChrisTan@POBoxes.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfr-6-85.resnet.upenn.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
CC: tansh@singnet.com.sg
Status: R
Alan Tan wrote:
> Why would Jacky uses the kickflip?? I'm still VERY PISSED off that
> sega had toned down lion so ureasonably. One THERE IS NO READON to
> remove lion PPP followup. Even the d+K,u/f+P does only 60+ damage. How
> abt Jacky's PPelbowkick pounce?????? shit.
Er... I seem to be missing something here. You mean the Singapore
machines
have been upgraded to version D since I left???
> sigh There is two Jackys in the tournament. One is not VERY GOOD but
> another one is very strong. One thing. Do you people think it is fair
> if I was knocked out in one of the prelims and I went to another one
> to play and I managed to get into the final round?? The good Jacky did
> that and I wonder if it's ethical.
I don't think it's unethical. I mean, people who get crappy results
in their 'A' levels can sit for the examinations again the next year
(or actually, half a year). Also, if you remember in VF2, when we
had that crappy tournament in Magic Land (yes, the Magic Land that
has been the recent acquisition of Funpolis, which is, IMHO, another
crappy arcade), I knocked Colin off in the final round of one of the
qualifiers, and he promptly signed up for the next week's qualifiers
(and made it in that round, I might add). I don't see anything wrong
with that. I would have done that myself.
> sigh but now the sweep is UTTERLY useless. I get my d/b+K interrupted
> by HIGH KICKS. argghhh!
So I presume version D *has* hit Singapore. Where? In the Funland
chain? And yes, the d/b+K has been seriously toned down. I hardly ever
use it (at least, nowhere near the number of times you used it in
the prelims!) in Philly now.
Oh yes... from your standpoint (being a Lion user), the new version
sucks... but think of people who use Kage (like me! :-) )... at least
Kage isn't as disadvantaged in version D as he is in version A. Not
that he has been improved in any way... but with the reduction in
Lion's, Jeff's and Akira's powers (d/b+K->u/f+K, SE->d+P+K->backbreaker,
RBC->SDE->DLC respectively) in version D, at least Kage doesn't suck
that hard. (Nonetheless, I'm playing a lot less Kage now, and much
more Akira and Lau.)
-- Chris
_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ (r)
_/ _/ _/
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/
_/ _/ _/
_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/
-- Christopher Tan --
Fire and Ice : http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~chris65
3-D Arcade Zone : http://www.singnet.com.sg/~ctan40
From meshe@clinic.net Mon Jan 20 21:18:10 PST 1997
Article: 143159 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: meshe@clinic.net (CreeD)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] last minute advice/prayers
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 19:30:44 GMT
Organization: The Destek Group, Inc.
Lines: 38
Message-ID: {5bojsk$5bb$1@news.destek.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: port104.clinic.net
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: R
>]: > ]> And what's jacky got on lion? Fine, canned combos that aren't
>]: > ]> even as good as a smart G-cancelling lion :)
>]:
>]: *blink* i missed this the first time. What can Lion g-cancel? ... or
>]: did er... whoever it was just mean rolling combos?
>]
>]I don't think Yupa means "real animated" G-cancels as Aoi.
>Blame Creed! I didn't say that :)
G-cancelling frequently to roll combos/offensive patterns. Not "I'm
going to stick out my leg, and then, just as suddenly, it's GONE!"
>] But a style of
>]singular attacks that COULD be followed thru as a combo. like his b+PP,
>]d/f+PP, d+KK. Only that only just execute the first move of hte combo
>]and
>]depending on the situation follow through or act accordingly. Jo plays
>]a
>]very effective Lion, with lots of singular attacks back by throws once
>]you get weary of which level to block his rush.
>Creed, is that what you meant?
Yeeup.
/------------------/
| sig in a box. |
/------------------/
Standard blathering.
"Standard" -Quote
Standard@email.address
Creed@UCLA.edu.
From yupasawa@aol.com Tue Jan 21 22:25:16 PST 1997
Article: 143297 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: yupasawa@aol.com (Yupasawa)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] Questions on Sarah's Move List
Date: 17 Jan 1997 05:42:08 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: {19970117054200.AAA27958@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Status: R
sellberger@delphi.com wrote:
]
] On AM2's "official" VF3 move list, they list u+KP as a move for Sarah.
] When
] I do this, nothing happens when I tap P. Anyone able to tell me what is
] supposed to happen? And any suggestions for making it happen?
Use u+K,u+P. It's the full spin dive-moonsault combo that Sarah does in
the attract mode. You need to hit up twice, once with each button tap to
get it out, at least that's how I do it. I wrote about this combo a lot in
Oct-Nov when I first started playing VF3... dig up those old posts from
www.dejanews.com if you're interested.
] Also, they list f+P,DF+P as a move, but I seem to be able to get the
] same thing just by doing f+P, df+P (i.e., I don't need to hold the
] down/forward tap). Am I correct?
Yep. These corrections were made on Firestarter's movelist (see my sig)
Simon, if you want a mind boggler, try to get out Lion's d,u+K,K,K+G combo
that AM2 lists... no one I know has any clue what that is or how to
actually do it... {shrug> Firestarter and I are ignoring its existence
for the time being... :)
Regards,
Yupa
-------------------------------------------
> Translated VF3 movelist (AM2 & Gamest): {
> http://www.ecf.toronto.edu/~chubb/ {
> * * * * * * * * {
> \ Recently updated (1-12-97) to / {
> > include the counter attack { {
> / tables from the VF3 Gamest Mook \ {
-------------------------------------------
From wild@i-manila.com.ph Wed Jan 22 03:28:49 PST 1997
Article: 143341 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: wild@i-manila.com.ph
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: VF3: Getting up and avioding pounce
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:50:36 GMT
Organization: Infocom Technologies Phil.
Lines: 10
Message-ID: {5c4l3e$mvc$2@bohol.infocom.sequel.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip144.i-manila.com.ph
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: R
Whats the best way or quickest way to get up? More importantly whats
the best way to avoid pounces especially against Sarah(u+K) and
Lion(uf+K)?
I saw some post saying tapping down, P and G would help or b,f,b,f+G
but none of them seems able to avoid Sarah and Lions pounce.
thanks for the help.
hurbert
From wild@i-manila.com.ph Thu Jan 23 06:00:30 PST 1997
Article: 143410 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: wild@i-manila.com.ph
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: VF3: Q on vs Lion
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:50:32 GMT
Organization: Infocom Technologies Phil.
Lines: 18
Message-ID: {5c4l3a$mvc$1@bohol.infocom.sequel.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip144.i-manila.com.ph
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: R
I once saw a post asking about Lion's db+K. I tested it and its quite
effective against high rushing attacks and slow mid close attacks. I
guess the major changes i think is on Lion's pounces opponent seems
able to escape more often but I still hate his uf+K.
BTW can anyone give me some tips against Lion. Theres one player here
whose style is dashing back... wait... then attack with df+K+G or
f,f+K+G. I got a hard time guessing the level of attack. Whats more he
always keep on pressuring me whenever I'm down. He'll move out of
range from rising attacks or move in when i roll away. Then when I get
up I should be ready to guess which attack(df+K+G or f,f+K+G) would he
executed. Is there a way I can see or hear what kind of attack would
come out?
hurbert
From wild@i-manila.com.ph Thu Jan 23 17:51:34 PST 1997
Article: 143410 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: wild@i-manila.com.ph
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: VF3: Q on vs Lion
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 06:50:32 GMT
Organization: Infocom Technologies Phil.
Lines: 18
Message-ID: {5c4l3a$mvc$1@bohol.infocom.sequel.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip144.i-manila.com.ph
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: R
I once saw a post asking about Lion's db+K. I tested it and its quite
effective against high rushing attacks and slow mid close attacks. I
guess the major changes i think is on Lion's pounces opponent seems
able to escape more often but I still hate his uf+K.
BTW can anyone give me some tips against Lion. Theres one player here
whose style is dashing back... wait... then attack with df+K+G or
f,f+K+G. I got a hard time guessing the level of attack. Whats more he
always keep on pressuring me whenever I'm down. He'll move out of
range from rising attacks or move in when i roll away. Then when I get
up I should be ready to guess which attack(df+K+G or f,f+K+G) would he
executed. Is there a way I can see or hear what kind of attack would
come out?
hurbert
From archang@sfu.ca Sun Jan 26 21:59:49 PST 1997
Article: 143788 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: archang@sfu.ca (Andrew Ryan Chang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: Interesting Okizeme (WAS Re: VF3: Getting up and avioding pounce)
Date: 26 Jan 1997 23:18:50 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University
Lines: 27
Message-ID: <5cgooq$i8s@morgoth.sfu.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fraser.sfu.ca
X-pgp-0x2DFF6F21: DB 5E D1 86 62 B8 58 88 54 54 49 9F 8A BD 29 91
X-pgp-key: Key on request.
Status: R
>Lion's u,f+K is not a pounce. It is simply used as such. The starfleet
>isn't a pounce either, but it can be used on rolling opponents. Have you
>tried it at all?
Technically speaking, Lion's u/f+K (which is what your preceding
paragraphs were discussing) is a pounce. It's listed as such in the AM2
movelists- it does 20 pts and hits at G level.
Lion has other mid and low attacks that can pass through the
polygons of a downed char, but *will not* hit the opponent, since they do
not hit G level. BTW, does Lion's d+K+G sweep pass through a downed
opponent or does it do the stop as if it was blocked?
So as far as I know, Lion has 4 attacks that hit downed opponents:
d/f+P swipe: 12 pts, u/f+K flopover: 20 pts, u+P pounce : 30 pts, d,U+P
heavy pounce: 40 pts. It makes for a finely grained "pouncing" ability.
On the other hand, rolling opponents are *probably* considered
"crouching" -- as you note, attacks such as the Starfleet hit it. Sarah's
Dragon Cannon also hits rollers.
--
Check Spin Sun Cup Zero
Fish Adverb One Tray Ball
Advertisement Blast Chip Light Zone
Hightop Three Verb Ice Reflection
From tansh@singnet.com.sg Sat Jan 25 04:22:47 PST 1997
Article: 143228 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: tansh@singnet.com.sg (Alan Tan)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] last minute advice/prayers
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 05:59:57 GMT
Organization: Singapore Telecom Internet Service
Lines: 44
Message-ID: <5c2gn4$lk1@lantana.singnet.com.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ts900-4727.singnet.com.sg
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: RO
Christopher Tan <ChrisTan@POBoxes.com> wrote:
>Er... I seem to be missing something here. You mean the Singapore
>machines
>have been upgraded to version D since I left???
yup every funland converte their VF3 into version D.
>> sigh There is two Jackys in the tournament. One is not VERY GOOD but
>> another one is very strong. One thing. Do you people think it is fair
>> if I was knocked out in one of the prelims and I went to another one
>> to play and I managed to get into the final round?? The good Jacky did
>> that and I wonder if it's ethical.
>I don't think it's unethical. I mean, people who get crappy results
>in their 'A' levels can sit for the examinations again the next year
>(or actually, half a year). Also, if you remember in VF2, when we
>had that crappy tournament in Magic Land (yes, the Magic Land that
>has been the recent acquisition of Funpolis, which is, IMHO, another
>crappy arcade), I knocked Colin off in the final round of one of the
>qualifiers, and he promptly signed up for the next week's qualifiers
>(and made it in that round, I might add). I don't see anything wrong
>with that. I would have done that myself.
okay, I'm not against him signing up elsewhere. BUT he used Lion in
the first prelim and SWITCHED to Jacky after the version D came out.
Isn't it REALLY UNFAIR for me who won my prelim fair and square and to
be STUCK with such a shitty character. Anyway, the rules of Max battle
explicitely state that NO character changes are allowed.
>Oh yes... from your standpoint (being a Lion user), the new version
>sucks... but think of people who use Kage (like me! :-) )... at least
>Kage isn't as disadvantaged in version D as he is in version A. Not
>that he has been improved in any way... but with the reduction in
>Lion's, Jeff's and Akira's powers (d/b+K->u/f+K, SE->d+P+K->backbreaker,
>RBC->SDE->DLC respectively) in version D, at least Kage doesn't suck
>that hard. (Nonetheless, I'm playing a lot less Kage now, and much
>more Akira and Lau.)
I guess Akira, Lau and JACKY esp is the way to go.
Alan Tan
From yupasawa@aol.com Sat Jan 25 04:22:30 PST 1997
Article: 143297 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: yupasawa@aol.com (Yupasawa)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] Questions on Sarah's Move List
Date: 17 Jan 1997 05:42:08 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <19970117054200.AAA27958@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Status: RO
sellberger@delphi.com wrote:
]
] On AM2's "official" VF3 move list, they list u+KP as a move for Sarah.
] When
] I do this, nothing happens when I tap P. Anyone able to tell me what is
] supposed to happen? And any suggestions for making it happen?
Use u+K,u+P. It's the full spin dive-moonsault combo that Sarah does in
the attract mode. You need to hit up twice, once with each button tap to
get it out, at least that's how I do it. I wrote about this combo a lot in
Oct-Nov when I first started playing VF3... dig up those old posts from
www.dejanews.com if you're interested.
] Also, they list f+P,DF+P as a move, but I seem to be able to get the
] same thing just by doing f+P, df+P (i.e., I don't need to hold the
] down/forward tap). Am I correct?
Yep. These corrections were made on Firestarter's movelist (see my sig)
Simon, if you want a mind boggler, try to get out Lion's d,u+K,K,K+G combo
that AM2 lists... no one I know has any clue what that is or how to
actually do it... <shrug> Firestarter and I are ignoring its existence
for the time being... :)
Regards,
Yupa
-------------------------------------------
> Translated VF3 movelist (AM2 & Gamest): <
> http://www.ecf.toronto.edu/~chubb/ <
> * * * * * * * * <
> \ Recently updated (1-12-97) to / <
> > include the counter attack < <
> / tables from the VF3 Gamest Mook \ <
-------------------------------------------
From yupasawa@aol.com Sat Jan 25 04:22:11 PST 1997
Article: 143374 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: yupasawa@aol.com (Yupasawa)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] Questions on Sarah's Move List
Date: 22 Jan 1997 19:29:30 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Lines: 83
Message-ID: <19970122192900.OAA15987@ladder01.news.aol.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com
X-Admin: news@aol.com
Status: RO
sellberger@delphi.com wrote:
]
]Yupasawa <yupasawa@aol.com> writes:
]
]>> Use u+K,u+P.
]Thanks Yupa. I guess it's just too difficult to publish an error-free
]VF3 move list?
I would have emailed them an error report, but I don't know much
Japanese...
]>] Also, they list f+P,DF+P as a move, but I seem to be able to get the
]>] same thing just by doing f+P, df+P (i.e., I don't need to hold the
]>] down/forward tap). Am I correct?
]>
]>Yep. These corrections were made on Firestarter's movelist (see my sig)
]
]Another confirmed mistake on the list. Too bad.
There are a few. I noticed a couple of timing stats that got transposed in
the hopping/jumping attacks... I fear that there are still typos that no
one has noticed yet in Firestarter's movelist too...
]>Simon, if you want a mind boggler, try to get out Lion's d,u+K,K,K+G
]combo
]>that AM2 lists... no one I know has any clue what that is or how to
]>actually do it... <shrug> Firestarter and I are ignoring its
]>existence for the time being... :)
]
]In VF2, Lion use to be able to do two jump kicks in one move -- a
]takeout
]kick followed by a kick while descending. (I.e., U+K [or U/F+K], K
][while
]descending]). If he is still able to do so in VF3, then (given the
]misprints
]we've already discussed) perhaps the "up" arrow in the diagram on the
]AM2
]move list is supposed to be black (instead of white, as printed), thus
]signifying you should hold the "up" portion. This would give Lion a
]combo
]that starts with a jump kick instead of a hop kick. The correct input
]would then be d, U+K, K (while descending), K+G. Has anyone tried this?
No, that's not it. It's the hopping sweep, followed by the low
kick-crescent combo, as I suspected... Tyler Lawson recently posted a
description of the combo and how to get it out.
]I would try it, but I can't seem to do jump kicks consistently yet in
]VF3.
]When I input d, U+K, I get a d+K move. I suppose I have some sort of
]weird
]timing problem. [Anybody else experiencing this?]
It's like high pounces... you have to hit K slightly after hitting up to
get a takeoff kick.
]Another possibility is that the second arrow isn't supposed to be there,
]and the correct combo is d+KK,K+G. Again, has any Lion player tried
]this?
]If neither of these work, then I sure hope someone is able to decrypt
]the combo and post in RGVA.
]Is it addressed in Gamest?
The correct motion, according to Tyler, is d,u,K(des),K,K+G, with a
considerable hesitation before hitting the K,K+G part of the combo. The
K,K+G part is simply the d+K,K+G combo without the need of tapping down
with the first kick. It's very similar to Sarah's other rising knee combo
D,f+K,K(after landing) which gives a f+K type second knee without the need
of tapping forward.
Later,
Yupa
-------------------------------------------
> Translated VF3 movelist (AM2 & Gamest): <
> http://www.ecf.toronto.edu/~chubb/ <
> * * * * * * * * <
> \ Recently updated (1-12-97) to / <
> > include the counter attack < <
> / tables from the VF3 Gamest Mook \ <
-------------------------------------------
From ChrisTan@POBoxes.com Sat Jan 25 04:22:10 PST 1997
Article: 143380 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: Christopher Tan <ChrisTan@POBoxes.com>
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] Newbie Throwing Questions
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:44:22 -0500
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 23
Message-ID: <32E67C26.338B@POBoxes.com>
Reply-To: ChrisTan@POBoxes.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfr-6-85.resnet.upenn.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
Status: RO
Yupasawa wrote:
> I haven't seen this last one yet... :( but my favorite is Akira's
> close-in-ram (b,f+P+G). Akira ends up being surprised exchanged by his
> opponent, and gets sent an even greater distance than Jeff's box throw...
> Something for Akira players to think about if they are planning on using
> the ram to throw an opponent out of the ring... :)
Alan and I were wondering... if you break Akira's close in ram or
Lion's b+P+G, a SE-type of break occurs. Can the "breaker" then run
up to back throw the "breakee"?
-- Chris
_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/ (r)
_/ _/ _/
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/
_/ _/ _/
_/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/
-- Christopher Tan --
Fire and Ice : http://www.seas.upenn.edu/~chris65
3-D Arcade Zone : http://www.singnet.com.sg/~ctan40
From caliburn@cyberway.com.sg Sat Jan 25 04:21:13 PST 1997
Article: 143551 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: Chris <caliburn@cyberway.com.sg>
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] last minute advice/prayers
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 02:25:39 +0800
Organization: Castle Darwin
Lines: 28
Message-ID: <32E26723.3E16@cyberway.com.sg>
Reply-To: caliburn@cyberway.com.sg
NNTP-Posting-Host: d7088.ppp7.cyberway.com.sg
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; I)
Status: RO
Alan Tan wrote:
> Why would Jacky uses the kickflip?? I'm still VERY PISSED off that
> sega had toned down lion so ureasonably. One THERE IS NO READON to
> remove lion PPP followup. Even the d+K,u/f+P does only 60+ damage. How
> abt Jacky's PPelbowkick pounce?????? shit.
Jacky's PPelbowkick pounce is not effective.The reason behind its full
hit is that those Jacky's got a major counter. From experience,
PPelbowkick pounce works only on counter hits. Don't worry about it.
Regarding your Lion PPP followup, it is actually Sega's decision to
remove the followup. Nothing we can do. In fact, I hate it.
> sigh There is two Jackys in the tournament. One is not VERY GOOD but
> another one is very strong. One thing. Do you people think it is fair
> if I was knocked out in one of the prelims and I went to another one
> to play and I managed to get into the final round?? The good Jacky did
> that and I wonder if it's ethical.
The two Jacky's ain't in the tour. If they are in, you are in trouble. I
think small trouble since they are not in. The good Jacky is playing for
fun. In terms of ethics, I think he is not in the wrong. Aren't we all
playing it for fun? Cool game.
> sigh but now the sweep is UTTERLY useless. I get my d/b+K interrupted
> by HIGH KICKS. argghhh!
>
It is natural. 3.4 versions are like this. Ought to look to Sega for a
proper explaination. Sega? Be cool and play along.
-Hanse Christian
] As for Wolf and Jeff, they usually don't throw knees just
]like that. The best time for them to throw knee is after they have
]gained initiative by blocking and they force the guessing game of BIG
]throws or MC knee. That is NOT lion's style of play, at least not
]mine. If lion waits and play defensive, he'll probable lose out as he
]has both weaker throws and weaker kneed.
But Lion has this option now in VF3, if you want to explore it. That's
what I was trying to point out...
]>Setting up Lion's knee should work the same as any of the others -- set
]>a trap with a quick recovering attack, then go for the interrupt and
]float
]>combo... of course you're taking some risk, but you're looking to
]>start a big combo when you throw it out.
]Another thing, if lion gets interrupted in Knee, sometimes he floats
]even by a high punch. Thirdly, people are well aware of Lion's more
]speedy attacks and they'll KNOW what can interrupt Lion and thus they
]use much faster attacks than when they fight Wolf. One more thing, if
]I want to look for interrupt, b,b+K is the move to use for Lion not
]knee as it has better execution, better recovery, better damage.
<shrug> I guess you're right.
>Anyways, good Lion's will also be looking to connect the FC,f+P+G throw
>because it has great damage potential with a d+K[K],u/f+K added to it.
>Don't fret, however, becasuse f+P+G covers both this throw and his f,f+P+G
>throw.
yep, apparently f+P+G is #1, b+P+G number 2, and then neutral I guess
number three. <thwack>.
> It amazed me, and seems a bit
>unbalanced, but what are you gonna do? I guess, we'll just have to kip all
>the time against Jeff. The starfleet is an *undulation*. It can hit more
>than one attack level, which makes it so effective against a rolling
>opponent.
I dunno what you're meaning to term undulation, but yes, it can hit
people who are standing or low/in a crouch. It's a from standing mid
attack. It's strange though because other mid attacks, no matter how
low they hit, do not seem to consistently take out rolling opponents,
such as jacky's kickflip, or lau's violent slashing tiger strike.
> It's also the reason why moves like Lion's u/f+K are so annoying
>on lying opponents. The reason it doesn't hit too well against side
>rollers, though, is that there is too much time between execution and
>arrival... The target has moved. Jeff's starfleet is FAST. The target has
>not moved enough since the execution, allowing a hit on an otherwise
>'invulnerable' opponent.
It's my understanding that lion's pounce hits people unless they are
standing and defending or unless it has missed entirely.. basically
what you said. It will hit people who roll to the side if it
physically makes contact with them. The starfleet though is not a
pounce and can't be used as one so I don't see how it can be used on
the normally invincible side roll animation, unless sega programmed a
specific one-move exception to the rule. Again though, I guess it's
possible although somewhat odd, I'll have to try this oki the next
time I play jeff.
>As for why the starfleet hits and a similarly quick sidekick does not... I
>just don't know. I have got to practice it more and see what the deal is.
>I am assuming that the 'undulation' factor makes the difference for now.
Well, by undulation you mean it starts from a high position and ends
in a low one? Because a lot of moves like jacky's axe kick do that. I
think that the axe kick or sarah's u/f+K should have the same results
if sega wanted consistency. Otherwise, again, it looks like one of
those weird intentional exceptions..
>> The second I was going to say a high rising kick should hit it but I
>> guess not? That's weird. Maybe there's a small built in duck to the
>> starfleet or something... like, in VF2, you can get lau's cartwheel
>> <u/f+K> to completely go through high rising attacks at point blank
>> range...
>Well, there is a reason for all that. The polygons simply do *not*
>collide. It appears that in VF3, Sega has taken out even more exceptions
>to the rule collision=hit. With the added 'undulation' feature that Sega
>(Yu Suzuki, specifically) bragged about in various game mags comes a sort
>of 'greying out' of attack level certainty.
I have to find this article/articles to figure out what you're meaning
by undulation, I guess it doesn't just mean an attack that moves
violently and hits mid...
(on rolling opps)
> Lion can.. uhm. u+K,K?
D,f+P, sidekick stagger, d/b+K,K, f+P,P combo, etc.
(on catch throws)
]> Oops, I forgot about u/f+P+G throws... I don't know which ones are
]> reversible or not... Lion's is the only one that is not listed as a
]catch
]> throw, so his is probably the only u/f that's reversible <not sure>
]Kage,
]> Wolf, Sarah all have u/f+P+G catch throws -- I doubt that any of those
]> 3 can be reversed with a corresponding u/f+P+G.
]
]Catch throws are unreversable during execution. Wolf's "Catch" is, but
]not the same way. What you're really reversing is the follow-ups.
Yeah, I agree, but you can stop Sarah and Wolf's catch throw by throwing
them during their dodge/dash in animation with any of your own P+G throws.
I guess this is more like _interrupting_ the catch throw, however, sort
of like throwing Akira out of a bodycheck or DLC combo... <shrug>
From meshe@clinic.net Mon Jan 27 18:55:55 PST 1997
Article: 143856 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: meshe@clinic.net (CreeD)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] last minute advice/prayers
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 1997 04:17:05 GMT
Organization: The Destek Group, Inc.
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <5bk9vf$84k$1@news.destek.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.183.147.140
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: R
>ya it is kind of funny huh. The real safe way is to roll back now.
>Roll forward is suicide. Roll side is kind of dangerous as you may are
>vulnerable to attacks if you don't attack.
I prolly already mentioned this but did you know that backrolls are
the exact same and as vulnerable as forward rolls? I've seen kage
f,f+PKG people out of a back roll, so if you anticipate backrolls, you
might even be able to do something like the kickflip JUST as the roll
begins, before they are too far away to strike. This could be tricky
to time but worth trying. Of course for stuff like f,f+PKG you don't
need the timing part. So lion can probably connect d/f+K+G.
>>Low throwable, but I'm afraid it's one of those moves were you block low
>>and try to counter mid (standing) you've lost your time rising from a
>>crouch to take advantage of the recovering time. Just like Lau's f,d+K.
>actually Lau's f,d+K is NOT throwable on many occasions. It is one of
>those invincible moves. sheesh how can people complain abt Lion's
>d/b+K...
I am fair. I complain about both all the time :)
/------------------/
| sig in a box. |
/------------------/
Standard blathering.
"Standard" -Quote
Standard@email.address
Creed@UCLA.edu.
From eng60206@leonis.nus.sg Tue Jan 28 01:30:12 PST 1997
Article: 143943 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: eng60206@leonis.nus.sg (Tan Kee Hian)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: VF3: Change to Lion from Jacky
Date: 28 Jan 1997 05:34:42 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <5ck35i$13q@nuscc.nus.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: eng60206@leonis.nus.sg
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: R
wild@i-manila.com.ph wrote:
: My standard tactic is doing (d+KK, df+P) and mixing up with (d+K, f+K,
: d+KK, uf+K) another nice tactic is (PPd+P, df+P) and mixing up with
: (PP, f+K, d+KK, uf+K) and another not-so-nice tactic is (b+PPK, df+P)
: and mixing up with (b+PP, d+K+G, df+P) or (b+PP, f+P+G). As you can
: see I try to mixup std combos to another combo to prevent him from
: guessing my attack level. I know this tactic is not fool proof so
: before he learns to use this tactic against me I should know how to
: counter it. Please help?
actually your tactic is just based on guessing after the down+K. However
if you meet someone who is good, you'll lose if both of you are equally
capable in predicting as the risk reward for lion d,+K,K is not good
enuff. Let's say Jacky block your d+k,K he can elbow stagger you after
which he can PPelbowkick or throw. The point is that although Jacky is
quite predictable as in his main moves are the elbow kick but he has very
good damage potential which is what that matters.
: Lion's FlipkickThrow+juggle combos is devastating (thanks for the
: info) but its kinda hard to do against ppl since most of them attacks
: mid. I tried doing d+K, F+P+G but it didn't work. As anyone tried
: d+P+K, F+P+G? or b,df+P, F+P+G? does any of them works? I tried to do
: it but I always forgot.
: Some people posted that Jacky was more powerful than Lion but I found
: it hard to believe. Lion has so many fast low knockdown attacks unlike
: Jacky. And against Jacky ppl all you have to do is initially try to
: defend standing since Jacky has fast mid-attacks but whenever jacky is
: executing a combo try crouching guarding in the middle (you can almost
: block or duck any attack) of the combo then retaliate.
the point is that Jacky has a damaging easy thow which punishes you when
you block high.
alan Tan
From eng60206@leonis.nus.sg Tue Jan 28 01:32:55 PST 1997
Article: 143945 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: eng60206@leonis.nus.sg (Tan Kee Hian)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: VF3: I'm quitting
Date: 28 Jan 1997 05:53:54 GMT
Organization: National University of Singapore
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <5ck49i$13q@nuscc.nus.sg>
NNTP-Posting-Host: eng60206@leonis.nus.sg
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Status: R
I think this shall be my last post for quite some time and I'll keep it
brief.
Max battle in singapore,
I got knocked out in the first round. shit. The game was set to best of
9. I won the first 4 rounds quite smoothly then.... sigh... I just lost
concentration. its really irritating how much you an play before hand and
then totally froze up. In the end I lost 4-5.
Zengzi lost in the final to this other guy who I think is around my
standard. soo well, IMHO, the best man may not necessarily win.
Lion stuff I knew but did not say.
If you break Lion f,f+P+G throw you can FRONT throw him back 100%.
After blocking Sarah's elbow knee, you can PPP 100% IF she is in close
stance with you at the end of the move, ie if Sarah elboe knee from open
stance your PPP is definate.
After blocking Jacky's elbow kick, best counter I think is K,K,u/f+K
which is confirmed.
If you break Lion's b+P+G throw, try to attack immediately cuz lion stuns
for a VERY VERY long time.
After Jacky get hit by a low punch from Lion, he can elbow immediately
and still win almost ANYTHING lion will do, ie if Lion do down+P,for+P,
Jacky can interrupt the for+P even if he is hit by the down+P. Sarah can
also elbow but stance limited. Thus it is a very good idea to elbow
immediately everytime you are hit by a low+P form Lion. Stupid right??
Lion is sooooo weak. I thought Lion's low attacks are supposedly to be
good but he cannot do much after a hit low punch.
Uses for Lion's U+K. Lion's U+K is a very good move as firstly even if
blocked the possibility of the second K may deter opponent to counter.
Secondly, hit does good damage as a high pounce is close to guaranteed.
sigh.... I can't seem to find any use for Lion's high pounce. Quite stupid
to see you high pounce miss the moment the opponent roll. Jacky's and
Sarah's home a little but Lion's doesn't at all. Thirdly it is veyr
strong in okizeme.
If opponent is good try u+K to force a guessing game and win by luck.
When opponent get up time your u+K to meet him. First if he get up with
low sweep, which MANY people will if they see lion stick up close as lion
even when block a low sweep has no decent counter, you win if you do u+K
(high pounce). If he get up high sweep, you get hit you fall, and
DEPENDING on character, they maybe able to pounce. Aoi is the most
dangerous as she can high pounce. the rest vary from low pounce (shun
sarah) to virtually nothing (lion, akira). If get up blocking, you may be
able to hit as there are frames of vulnerability but it is very hard. SO
by sticking in close, and don't do u+K, opponent after getting hit once
will try a HIGH SWEEP or just stand up and block. Either way, you can
throw. the former being easier but the latter allows to throw most of the
time since opponent is trying to block. So the point is to stick close
and pressure and vary u+K with blocking. I think you should hit one u+K,
then block of most of the rest. Either way, this guessing game is
extremely advantages to Lion.
Alan tan
From wild@i-manila.com.ph Tue Jan 28 19:32:26 PST 1997
Article: 144019 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: wild@i-manila.com.ph
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: VF3: Change to Lion from Jacky
Date: Sun, 26 Jan 1997 05:26:19 GMT
Organization: Infocom Technologies Phil.
Lines: 51
Message-ID: <5cf1ni$eh2$2@bohol.infocom.sequel.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: ip75.i-manila.com.ph
X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.0.82
Status: R
Fought against a Lion player for 3 days and got my ass kicked. Never
won a game using Jacky or Kage. Out from frustration I remembered a
saying "if you can't beat him, join him" so I picked Lion on the
fourth day and I won against him several times (I didn't give him
mercy round since he doesn't give me either and once saw him give a
mercy round by doing a TA attack and running himself to a RO,
overconfident SOB).
My standard tactic is doing (d+KK, df+P) and mixing up with (d+K, f+K,
d+KK, uf+K) another nice tactic is (PPd+P, df+P) and mixing up with
(PP, f+K, d+KK, uf+K) and another not-so-nice tactic is (b+PPK, df+P)
and mixing up with (b+PP, d+K+G, df+P) or (b+PP, f+P+G). As you can
see I try to mixup std combos to another combo to prevent him from
guessing my attack level. I know this tactic is not fool proof so
before he learns to use this tactic against me I should know how to
counter it. Please help?
I'm new at playing Lion but he is seems to be more flexible than
Jacky. One Jacky player also got frustrated he shouted "$h!t! at me
after beating him 8 times, i'm sure he lost only due to wrong guesses
and overuse of ub+K; b+K+G and P+K.
There was some incident/bugs where a df+P+K or d+K+G totally missed
Sarah when she was doing some move (the attack passed thru her leg)
can't remember it but does anyone know what was it? Another annoying
incident is Lion's knee sometimes misses against a crouching Lion,
maybe bec. of the terrain? Another thing is an uf+K totally misses a
stay-still grounded opponent whats the knockdown attack i executed? i
forgot. I'm totally new to Lion's pounces but can someone list the
proper pounce followups from a specific knockdown attack?
Lion's FlipkickThrow+juggle combos is devastating (thanks for the
info) but its kinda hard to do against ppl since most of them attacks
mid. I tried doing d+K, F+P+G but it didn't work. As anyone tried
d+P+K, F+P+G? or b,df+P, F+P+G? does any of them works? I tried to do
it but I always forgot.
Some people posted that Jacky was more powerful than Lion but I found
it hard to believe. Lion has so many fast low knockdown attacks unlike
Jacky. And against Jacky ppl all you have to do is initially try to
defend standing since Jacky has fast mid-attacks but whenever jacky is
executing a combo try crouching guarding in the middle (you can almost
block or duck any attack) of the combo then retaliate.
sorry for babbling also please be nice i'm new at playing lion so
maybe all i said above might be wrong.
thanks,
hurbert
From archang@sfu.ca Wed Jan 29 16:55:00 PST 1997
Article: 144104 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: archang@sfu.ca (Andrew Ryan Chang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] Takeoffkick fun with Shun.
Date: 28 Jan 1997 21:44:14 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University
Lines: 16
Message-ID: <5clrve$eas@morgoth.sfu.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fraser.sfu.ca
X-pgp-0x2DFF6F21: DB 5E D1 86 62 B8 58 88 54 54 49 9F 8A BD 29 91
X-pgp-key: Key on request.
Status: R
Yupasawa <yupasawa@aol.com> wrote:
>After re-reviewing the move tables, I've come to the conclusion that I'm
>wrong above, sorry about that. The mid-air kicks <d,U,K(asc)> are actually
>the kicks that recover in 28 frames (25 for Aoi/Pai), not the landing
>kicks <d,U,K(des)> like I had originally thought. Everyone's landing kick
>takes only 11 frames to recover. BTW, everyone's mid-air kicks and landing
>kicks are 30 pt attacks.
So what about Lion's midair kick that recovers in 60 frames? Is
that a low jumping kick? A kick at the apex of the jump? I'm really
confused, without the ability to read Japanese...
--
"_Thomas Alva Flathead_ [...] is probably best-known as the inventor of
the battery-powered brass lantern."
-Encyclopedia Frobozzica.
From ChrisTan@POBoxes.com Wed Feb 5 01:14:56 PST 1997
Article: 144706 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: Christopher Tan <ChrisTan@POBoxes.com>
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] Questions on Akira - More Questions
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 00:31:15 -0500
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <32F6C9A3.2FA5@POBoxes.com>
Reply-To: ChrisTan@POBoxes.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfr-6-85.resnet.upenn.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
Status: R
CreeD wrote:
>
> >> (3) Is Single Jump Kick a guaranteed hit after Break Guard
> >> (f+P+G)? What about a Dragonlance after Break Guard?
>
> >First of all, the break guard only work if the opponent is blocking.
> >It becomes a normal move if you hit the opponent when he's not blocking,
> >or recovering from a move. If the break guard manages to, er, break
> >the opponent's guard, then the SJK *is* guaranteed only in close
> >stance, not open. (I kicked air numerous times before finally figuring
> >that out!)
>
> I know you play a lot of 3.0 ... do you know if this works in all
> versions this way?
Actually, I only played version 3.0 for three weeks in Singapore.
The majority of the time, I'm playing ver.C in Philly. And anyway,
Akira's break guards have not been modified between versions, AFAIK.
So yes, I do believe what I wrote above works on all versions,
unless I'm missing something.
> >That reminds me, the other day, I was playing Pai, and did a low throw
> >over my friend. Now, supposedly the only truly guaranteed follow-up
> >is a D+KK. But... my friend managed to block the second K! Duh?
>
> of course. the second kick is high, he should be able to duck too.
> Actually, blocking it sounds a little unlikely, but in any case, that
> never was guaranteed... sidekick is the only guaranteed move as far as
> I know.
No. I meant, hold Down, and press K,K. The second sweep is blockable!
Duh.
> >Oh yeah... I was also wondering. If you crouch after Shun does an SE,
> >followed by a b,df+P, you won't float, right? I forgot to test this
> >out. Something about lowering the center of gravity, I think...
>
> maybe, but in any case shun should be doing the yoho which is
> guaranteed...
The yoho? Shun? Er, which move are you referring to?
BTW, for Lion, is anything guaranteed after the d/f+P+G SE?
Methinks the d/f+PP followed by u/f+K *might* be guaranteed,
but I could well be wrong.
-- Chris
From archang@sfu.ca Wed Feb 5 19:05:07 PST 1997
Article: 144818 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: archang@sfu.ca (Andrew Ryan Chang)
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] Shun's SE followups.
Date: 4 Feb 1997 21:46:45 GMT
Organization: Simon Fraser University
Lines: 41
Message-ID: <5d8ao5$oth@morgoth.sfu.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: fraser.sfu.ca
X-pgp-0x2DFF6F21: DB 5E D1 86 62 B8 58 88 54 54 49 9F 8A BD 29 91
X-pgp-key: Key on request.
Status: R
Christopher Tan <ChrisTan@POBoxes.com> wrote:
>CreeD wrote:
>> >Oh yeah... I was also wondering. If you crouch after Shun does an SE,
>> >followed by a b,df+P, you won't float, right? I forgot to test this
>> >out. Something about lowering the center of gravity, I think...
>>
>> maybe, but in any case shun should be doing the yoho which is
>> guaranteed...
>
>The yoho? Shun? Er, which move are you referring to?
I think Creed means the chou-wan-ryou-ken (the name given on the
VF Jijii page). It's just d,d/f,f+P (the first d tap is optional, and
occasionally has odd results, such as forcing a crouch due to
autoducking.)
The recovery time on Shun's yoho / chou-wan is ridiculously low --
19 frames, and it does 30 pts of damage. However, it goes nearly straight
up, so its horizontal reach is very small.
>BTW, for Lion, is anything guaranteed after the d/f+P+G SE?
>Methinks the d/f+PP followed by u/f+K *might* be guaranteed,
>but I could well be wrong.
d/f+PP as in uppercut-downswipe, not the D/F+PP double creeping
pecks, right?
Hmm. Just looking at the AM2 movelist, I'm guessing that if d/f+P
comes out in 12 frames, then other attacks in that area are also at that
level of guaranteed-ness.
Specifically, the elbow, and the f+P,P elbow-poke are a frame
faster on the initial hit's execution, the KK combo is just a frame slower
to start, and the u+P+K has the same exec time. If the elbow isn't
possible because Lion recovers low (I think he recovers high from the SE),
then Lion can do the crouching low punch, and that oughtta be pretty
safe... being 6 frames faster than the low punch from standing.
--
"I've won at every level except college and the pros."
-Shaquille O'Neal, 1996.
From cang@acs.ryerson.ca Thu Feb 6 01:13:50 PST 1997
Article: 144842 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: Carlo Ang <cang@acs.ryerson.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] Lau's uncounterable SgPm rush? (was: Re: Taka's canned throws!!)
Date: Wed, 05 Feb 1997 10:11:47 -0500
Organization: The Invisibles HQ
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <32F8A333.3F02@acs.ryerson.ca>
NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.117.13.236
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-2022-jp
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)
Status: R
$B?(JKris $B?(Jwrote:
>
> No. This is *definitely* wrong. You have to go through absolutely NO
> animation from a crouch to do a standing throw. It's even possible to
> execute crouch dashes while executing a throw (crouch dash Crucifix
> Piledriver comes to mind). In fact, in VF3, I think you can even do
> regular P+G throws while the stick is still down with *all* the fighters
> now. In the Lau example, you could simply duck right after you see the
> elbow and execute the throw of your choice (after letting the stick go
> neutral), or simply press P+G while Lau recovers from his missed palm.
> This is one of the only sure-fire ways I can get out of the ever-so-common
> and effective
>
AH, but you STILL must let the stick go to neutral, meaning breaking
the crouch. Can you duck Lau's SgPm, KEEP on holding D (NO NEUTRAL or
UP whatsoever), and just hit PG for a throw?? ie: d (for a duck) -> D+PG
throw?? The difference with FC throws like Taka, Aoi, and Lion, is
that the stick has no need to go through neutral. The fighters do not
go through stand animation on the grab, they only stand AFTER the grab
whether successful or not. But upon doing PG for the FC throw, the
fighters go from crouch to grab animation, unless there's a miss in
which
stand and grab is the animation.
I've done Wolf's Brainbuster buffered into crouch dash (in VF2). This
is not a true FC throw, since the stick MUST ALWAYS come from neutral
in ALL of the df,df+PK. I've tried doing crouch dash to Brainbuster
w/o ANY hint of neutral, no successful throw.
--
~~IDEASinMOTIONremainINmotion~~LISTENbetweenTHElines~~
Check my site for my fave Toronto band, Lilith
http://www.acs.ryerson.ca/~cang
From ChrisTan@POBoxes.com Thu Feb 6 16:08:06 PST 1997
Article: 144918 of rec.games.video.arcade
From: Christopher Tan <ChrisTan@POBoxes.com>
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: Re: [VF3] Shun's SE followups.
Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 22:02:55 -0500
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 47
Message-ID: <32F7F85F.215B@POBoxes.com>
Reply-To: ChrisTan@POBoxes.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: sfr-6-85.resnet.upenn.edu
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
Status: R
Andrew Ryan Chang wrote:
> >> >Oh yeah... I was also wondering. If you crouch after Shun does an SE,
> >> >followed by a b,df+P, you won't float, right? I forgot to test this
> >> >out. Something about lowering the center of gravity, I think...
> >>
> >> maybe, but in any case shun should be doing the yoho which is
> >> guaranteed...
> >
> >The yoho? Shun? Er, which move are you referring to?
>
> I think Creed means the chou-wan-ryou-ken (the name given on the
> VF Jijii page). It's just d,d/f,f+P (the first d tap is optional, and
> occasionally has odd results, such as forcing a crouch due to
> autoducking.)
Yeah... chouwan I know... yoho? duh! Well, I guess the (somewhat)
lack of standardized English names for VF3 moves is to blame! ;-)
> >BTW, for Lion, is anything guaranteed after the d/f+P+G SE?
> >Methinks the d/f+PP followed by u/f+K *might* be guaranteed,
> >but I could well be wrong.
>
> d/f+PP as in uppercut-downswipe, not the D/F+PP double creeping
> pecks, right?
Yep.
> Hmm. Just looking at the AM2 movelist, I'm guessing that if d/f+P
> comes out in 12 frames, then other attacks in that area are also at that
> level of guaranteed-ness.
> Specifically, the elbow, and the f+P,P elbow-poke are a frame
> faster on the initial hit's execution, the KK combo is just a frame slower
> to start, and the u+P+K has the same exec time. If the elbow isn't
> possible because Lion recovers low (I think he recovers high from the SE),
> then Lion can do the crouching low punch, and that oughtta be pretty
> safe... being 6 frames faster than the low punch from standing.
Lion recovers high. The f+P (or f+PP) are escapable, IIRC. The
KK which hits HH should also be escapable. But the u+P+K... yeah,
I forgot to mention that one the last time. That *should* be
inescapable. There's a high chance of tagging on a u/f+K after
that. Urgh. But that's still 40 points damage total. d/f+PP is better
(assuming the u/f+K is guaranteed after).
-- Chris
Wall throw can only be done against a high wall. Wall throw requires your
back or the opponent's back very close to the wall.
Here are the moves I know.
Lion :
u/f+p+g (opponent back against the wall) damage change from 45 pts to 50
pts animation : jump on opponent and pull him down to the floor.
b,f+P+G (back against the wall) damage stays the same, same animation for
Lion, but the opponent gets his face slammed into the wall.
It's my understanding that lion's pounce hits people unless they are
standing and defending or unless it has missed entirely.. basically
what you said. It will hit people who roll to the side if it
physically makes contact with them.
From jirawat@hep01.phys.ufl.eduFri Oct 25 22:08:04 1996
Date: 21 Oct 1996 17:09:25 GMT
From: Jirawat Uttayaya <jirawat@hep01.phys.ufl.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: VF3: Lion's d/f+P+G Flowchart & Aoi aout-select
Here's some things to try after Lion's d/f+P+G haikasenten throw
-the slide between the legs one. I don't think any of these are
guaranteed combos, but are good tries against the unwary beginner.
Thanks to Hiraaoka Kanji of the OKI Electric Industry CO. R&D
division (kanji@okilabb.oki.co.jp)
a) d/f+P+G --> f+E --> f, f+K+K
b) d/f+P+G --> f+E --> f+K --> d/b+K
c) d/f+P+G --> f+E --> f+K -->P, P, d+P
d) d/f+P+G --> f+E --> f+K --> f+P, P
e) d/f+P+G --> b, d/f+P --> D_, f+P --> b, d/f+P
f) d/f+P+G --> b, d/f+P --> u+P, K --> d+K, K
Flowchart e & f only works if b, d/f+P hits as a counter.
Flow b, c, d are floats after the knee.
After Lion's d/f+P+G:
Opponent Lion (You)
1. Crouches f+E, f+K : Run and Knee
2. Runs Away f+E or f,f f+E, f+K
3. Turn-Around Hi Attack f+K or b, d/f+P for a high float
4. Turn-Around Low Attack A little trouble
5. Shun's back throw A bit more trouble
6. Escape E or d+E Impossible! (His joke, not mine)
Someone suggested a hop attack for 4, a P, P, P combo for 5, and
any one of Lion's sweep for 6.
I believe all these moves are great but quite useless. The best follow-up
I've seen is b+P,P,K. Two twisting low pecks and a spinning mid-kick. The
last kick does quite sizeable damage. E-ing won't do. The combo has Lion
twisting from side to side before the spinning kick. Any E-ing opponent
will be pecked and kicked to pieces. A low TT attack is the answer but if
he does other follow-ups, that's it. Unlike Akira's SE whereby running
away is the best gambled option (assuming no Tai-step moves), running
will be the worse thing to do. You have to TT low. If he just crouches
and waits, ugh! Get ready to be pecked and poked or happy danced to death.
The dash distance to get away is a little too short to get away from this
move.
The recent get-together has seen a Lion player (the one players avoided),
doing this. Frustratingly painful to see this happen.
It is like Lion has gained a SE equivalent better than Akira. Wu Meng has
mentioned in VF2 days that Kage is perverse. Lion may usurp Kage's honor
in this field :)
His low pecks has made his moves sorta like auto Tai-step moves. Hard to
hit, hard to throw, and hard to pursue.
From tansh@merlion.singnet.com.sgFri Oct 25 22:00:50 1996
Date: 4 Oct 1996 15:38:36 GMT
From: Alan Tan Kee Hian <tansh@merlion.singnet.com.sg>
Newsgroups: rec.games.video.arcade
Subject: VF3: Lion
wow is Lion Being improved.
Improvements from VF2.
Ability to float by DOWN, f+P. That followup with for+P,P,u/f+K pushes
the opponent a LOT (not to mention GOOD damage). Trust me. Lion has the best
pushing ability in VF3 now, IMO. This is because of this move for+P,P which
comes out as fast as and elbow and pushes you FAR even if you block. Its
uncounterable somemore. so if I manage to block your counter, a second
for+P,P may RO you. That move also gave Lion a very good option after a down
P. In VF2, Lion does not have a fast and foos move after a down P so people
like Akira can actually hit Lion with a dashing elbow even after taking a low
punch. But now people is scared to twitch after a down+P hit cuz the for+P
move float after a counter.
Fast punch. VERY IMPT. VERY very impt.
Good damage from PPP,u/f+K counter or as a followup from sidekick stagger.
U/F+K as a very GOOD pounce. In fact you can do it repeatedly as it is
kind of very diffucult to get up fast enuff. A bit cheap so I only use
once. but the whole point is you can do it almost everytime you knock the
opponent down. It is that fast. Whats more it squishes the opponent on
the floor so that you can actually RO by using this move.
Very GOOD throw in f,f+P+G. EASY to do, can be followup woth u/f+K which
gives you GOOD damage. As much as facegrab.
Still as fast as ever.
Many new variations, esp PP,down+P and backP,P,K (the kick can be
delayed)
Sidekick can float!!
Other characters become weaker as things like PK is not knock down but
Lion can PPP and still u/f+K after that. All from a P counter!!!
What more can you want.....
Alan Tan
|