VF3 [ print friendly ] [ command view ] Timing wise, if you can block the move, you can reverse it. I can think of no
case where a move must be blocked, if it can be reversed.
Technically the timing for reversals is simple -- the reversal must be inputted
during the execution time of your opponent's move. But in practice, because you
can buffer in a reversal like any other move, there are two distinct timing
requirements for reversals, depending on whether or not you are in
rigor/recovery/block stun/etc., of some sort.
To bottom line it, timing reversals when you are not in recovery, when your
character is capable of attacking is quite difficult, and in general, random
reversals like that are pretty ineffective. Timing reversals while your
character is in recovery of some sort, is really easy, and is where reversals
are really supposed to be done. This is probably why most beginners think
reversals are so damn hard, while most experienced players have no problem at
all reversing.
Let me give you an example, the first from my many matches against Rich's Kage.
Akira versus Kage --
Kage elbow (f+p), Akira blocks
Akira counterattacks with punch (p), Kage reverses (b+pk)
This is a classic flowchart option used by Rich's Kage. In this circumstance,
Rich actually has a 19 frame window during which to input his reversal. The
first 9 frames comes from the obvious 9 frame execution time of Akira's punch.
But the additional 10 frames comes from the 10 frame window (footnote 1) during
which Kage can input the reversal while his elbow is recovering.
So let's look at the three factors which make it so easy to successfully
reverse in this situation:
1) Kage knows Akira's going to Punch. This is simple Yomi, and you'd be
surprised at how many intermediate players automatically react to a blocked
elbow by punching.
2) Kage knows WHEN Akira's going to Punch. Experienced players know how to
buffer in moves, and chances are that Akira's punch is going to come out
cleanly after Akira's block stun time has elapsed.
3) Because Kage is in recovery from his elbow, he has a 19 frame (1/3rd of
second) window during which to input the reversal. 1/3 of a second might not
sound that big to some of you, but this window is HUGE, especially as you, Kage
are in control of the timing because you just initiated this entire sequence by
elbowing.
Now contrast this to another instance... Lion versus Kage...
Beginning of the Round
Lion -- e, u+pk
Kage -- (pause) b+pk
Unless the Kage is quite accustomed to reversing in this situation, he will not
likely be able to reverse the u+pk. Most of the time, I think, the reversal
will come out too early, and Kage will be smacked as he begins his reversal
wiff animation.
Kage knows that Lion likes to begin the round with escape and u+pk. So
anticipating it, Kage attempts to pause a moment at the beginning of the round,
and reverse Lion's quick hoppity uppercut like move. But the timing in this
circumstance is much more difficult than in the previous example. Kage only has
a 12 frame window, the execution time of the u+pk, during which to reverse the
move. Because Kage is not in recovery of some sort, if he executes the reversal
even one frame before Lion does his u+pk, Kage will go through the wiff'd
reversal animation and the reversal will not work. The extra 10 frames afforded
by buffering a reversal into a block stun/move recovery time/etc., are not
applicable in this case simply because Kage is not in rigor of any sort and is
free to execute any move at that exact time. So again, let's look at the 3
factors.
1) Kage knows Lion's going to escape, u+pk. This is a quick and easy opening
for Lion, and I've been known to abuse it.
2) Kage only has a fair idea of when Lion's going to u+pk. That is because of
two reasons. 1) You cannot buffer in moves before the round starts, (footnote
2) so Lion cannot easily input the dodge cleanly at the beginning of the round.
Likely, it will come 3-5 frames after the beginning of the round. Also 2) most
players do not have an intuitive feel of exactly when a move can interrupt a
dodge. Sure because the move can be buffered in we can learn to guage exactly
how long it takes a move to come out of a dodge, but this isn't as easy for em
as expecting when my opponent's move will come out after block stun.
3) Kage only has a 12 frame window during which to input the reversal. If he
inputs it one frame too early, wiff animation will come out.
Now this is a situation where Kage at least has a fair idea of when the move
will come out (#2). And it is quite difficult for him to successfully reverse.
So do you see why if you randomly try to reverse a move in a situation where
you don't even have #2 (such as my opponent loves to SDE, so I'll try to d/b+pk
randomly hoping it works) you're prolly going to eat a lot of moves? Sure
you'll reverse a few, but I doubt this strategy will really help you.
And because most beginners will try reversing randomly and end up with a low
percentage of successful reversals, they are lead to believe reversals are
hard, or not worth it. But I think it's clear that where you have all 3
advantages, yomi of move, clean knowledge of timing, and a buffer window, you
can easily reverse.
-Jason
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Footnote 1: Don't ask me to prove or say exactly where this 10 frame window
number comes from. It may not actually be 10 frames, it's not like Sega tells
us these things. It seems right for now.
Footnote 2: If there is a buffer window before the round starts, it seems to be
very small. I actually would doubt that this exists at all, except that I have
executed a SDE with Akira at the beginning of the round, with the debug input
data on, and the data on the screen only showed two forward inputs. This would
imply that the first foward input was somehow buffered in before the round
starts. But somehow I doubt it. If there is a buffer window, I think its likely
only 1 frame. It is definately not 10 frames.
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