evading vs specific characters

Chibitox, don't you mean the opposite? Close range DS will actually connect

 

If you're not planning on evade canceling I'd say it's safer to not get caught by the 4K since that will sideturn and put you at -9. 833G will open you up to delayed mids since that G cancel is slower than 66G and from -3 and up you can't get under her high half circulars in time using 66G2.

4P+K is also a half circular that covers the back that can be canceled or go into the low hit followup. It's slow at 17frames though, but at -3 it's a threat and it hit confirms into combos. I'd much rather get hit with 4K+G which dosen't go into anything that scary.

 

Marly, don't you mean the opposite? "If you evade to her back and don't cancel your evade will KILL you."

 

I am sorry, but... WHAT IS THE CORRECT ANSWER THEN? DS stomach or back?
confused now as hell

 

Unicorn:

DS tracks to vane's stomach for a float.

DS tracks to vane's back. On CH, it combos to for 15 more dmg, -3f and a possible mid followup. It also combos to for 23 dmg and -2f.

Based on damage alone one would suggest evading to DS vane's back.

• However DS has rather poor range.
• However#2 DS also tracks to vane's stomach, and so does .
• However#3 DS is not frequently used from advantage and is very unsafe on block, so it's probably used sparingly.

So it really depends on whether will whiff or not.

This is why chibitox suggests to evade to DS vane's back up close & evade to DS vane's front at a distance.

 

In fact I shouldn't have mentionned range, because 6P and 3P+K are both meant to be used at close range. But I didn't say neither of those should be used at far range

What I meant was that 6P was a move that is a lot more versatile than 3P+K, cause it's Mid and fast.
If you escape to her back be ready to eat a lot of those. On counter it gives +5 so it's a nitaku situation.
3P+K imo is a lot more situational.
In a way It's like wolf 3k+g kick discussed above, at close small/medioum disadvantage it won't be used that much.

 

Chibitox -5 is still CD fuzzy guardable, not nitaku

I'd rather eat for 47 dmg tops (if i am calculating that right that is, 16*1.5 CH multiplier + 23 = 47 right?) than for 80-ish dmg float and oki.

All of this discussion is pointless anyway, DS also has to kill evades, two other fullcirculars, and a pressing urge to revert to OS for damage so, fuck it, evade wherever you like vs DS, it's only a matter of time before the vanessa player switches to OS so you'll have to evade to her back anyway.

 

According to VF5 vanilla glossary here on VFDC, this is "forced choice"

 

I was sure someone would make a comment about -5 not being a true nitaku, which I know, but after around 200+ match with Vanessa I have yet to see someone CD fuzzy that after a surprise counter hit on their evade.

Plus I'm pretty sure it's NOT possible to duck the throw AND GUARD THE CANNED MID with the same timing. The canned mid will cancel the 6P recovery giving you actually more than +5. In which case fuzzy is not possible, you'll be able to duck the throw but will take the mid. Not to mention the mid is delayable so good luck fuzzying that

Still its less damage than 3P+K (although 6PCH into back throw is around 95 ^^) but it's gonna be used a lot more imo.50/50 I guess.

 

Chibitox, thank you a lot for your answers! I did not play many (good) Vanessas yet, so this all is new for me and I am glad for all this informations.

Now just to confirm... The discussion was a little confusing to me, so I am not 100 % sure I get it right. Is this correct?

Thank you a lot

 

Well don't take my word on it, I was just explaining my point. But that's what I would suggest.
Escape to front until the Vanessa shows he is willing take the risk of using 3P+K.

 

Evade toward Brad's back.

Only 4P (high, 15f) and 1K+G (low, 21f) are pokes that cover his back. On CH they're both +4 for Brad, though 4P hitconfirms to 4PK easily and leads to a strong nitaku situation. Still better than getting hit by 6_K (high, 17f) and 1P (low, 22f) which both lead to juggles on CH.

 

Thank you a lot for your post, Panda!

 

No prob. It's a little more information than necessary but I figured you'd parse what you wanted from it.

 

That's actually completely true !
If you evade to his stomach you avoid + which is the most important tool to evade. You also avoid other tools (, +) but + is mostly it. It's an annoying low.

Be sure to evade 33G, because if you do evade to his stomach, you really need to avoid getting hit by (it's high, you will duck it at -4/-5 with evade 33G) and (you aslo duck it with evade 33G at -4/-5).
Apart if you're near a wall is not that big a of a deal but is for various reasons (I won't list them all, but not only does it have a built-in hitconfirm NC with , stance is a true mix up if you got hit by and follow up since most of stance follow up cannot be interrupted on hit).
Even on block/whiff and with enough conditioning of your opponent, the move is annoying because of follows up and stance possibility. And it's one of the few moves that allow Taka to fuzzy guard since it is -4 on block. One of his best move overall.

Be careful of . If you evade to Taka's stomach, you will evade but you can get caught by the follow up which covers his stomach (btw it can setup some damaging wall combos). Just block and you have perfect nitaku situation since Taka is at -8.

 

Kage has half circulars in both directions, the biggest damage ones should be evaded to his back ( /+/ ). However this leaves you open to and + which are both used often and are fast. It's probably better to use 866G/833G to his front as a more universal option. Against Jumonji evade to his front (not too important) and against Shippujin then evade to his back (very important).

 

PP6P covers back not stomach doesn't it ?