Swallowing a character

Usually what happens is I block a string, and i let go of the block when i know the string is over (since i only partially know Brad, this results in significant delay). Usually then the AI knows I'm turtling and goes for a throw. I throw out a jab, get thrown. So, i'm gonna go with the former, that i'm just really slow. I don't want to say I'm that slow, but my P animation ends up either barely showing or not showing at all, and i don't see anything resembling a counter/hold/catch-throw.

I was serious about trying to use this post as a record for others, too. While it's simple for me, that doesn't mean it shouldn't be said here, let alone the fact that it's safer to assume i don't know it and it's my choice (and also my problem) if i were to get offended by it. Have no fear.

I think i'll take you up on that.

That is pretty much where I started. I still don't have any feel for close game, though, so i felt alot safer further out where my options were even fewer (but so are my opponent's). I was able to ID the 4K thing (fortunately [or, perhaps, unfortunately] the computer is too stupid to deal with such a simple shenanigan [isn't the mid catch-throw universal? If so, i'm in for a world of hurt if they update the AI]). Right now i'm anticipating this universals info. I figure that once I can get that swallowed the rest will sort itself out very quickly (because theng i can more quickly learn what to expect from my opponent as well).

 

Hello, welcome to the game and its always great when a new player tries to learn the game by asking vets

There are two options why this would happen:
1.) You were simply too slow or:
2.) You didn't actually let go of guard before punching. In the latter case the game would read your input as throw escape and maintain guard, instead of doing a jab.

Its understandable to feel more comfortable further away, however if you are in truly long range, your options (as well as those of your opponents) are quite limited.
Close game is something very few people can say they have a 'feel of'. For me, the pressure of needing to throw out a move grows exponentially as I get closer the opponent. You want to do something, anything, when you're close to opponent, because you fear he is going to do it to you first. Its rare that I end up in what I call 'a staring contest' at close range, but if I do, those moments are incredibly intense. Because neither player can react to the fast moves at that range, you can only try to predict what the other person does. CPU of course has perfect reactions so its not quite the same as fighting a person.

 

I'm not sure about this 'universals' thing. There are not many that can be counted as universal attacks among the cast. One thing not mentioned is I guess sidekick that most characters have a variation of: a medium range mid attack that staggers on crouch guard, and causes special stagger if it hits backdash. Its not real universal since I think Lei-Fei doesn't have one. The input is usually , but for example Goh's and Taka's sidekick is actually their basic K.

The basic nitaku mixup when youre at advantage is between 6P and throw: ie. a fast mid and a throw (note: not all characters use 6P for this). The concept is that if you avoid the throw by crouching, the mid is going to hit you. If you block high to guard against the mid, the throw will connect. (Same two choice applies to evade/attack or attack/block) This is obviously not everything there is to close combat in VF, this is more like the first layer of the guessing game, the foundation. All 'advanced defense techniques' like Fuzzy guard are intended to defend against both options simultaneously, but they just create the next layer of the guessing game.

 

He does, .

 

PS3 controller, so, it's definitely got to be the first.

Pretty much. As i get more used to the cast, i'm gonna aim for the sweet spot: in kicking range, but not punching range.

Yeah, but odds are, it's the only consistent offline i'm ever going to get. Usually CPUs get some unfair frame advantages as well in games like these.

I always felt like there was much more, though. I'll have to keep looking. I think there might be something with 4P and 3P as well, but I haven't figured it out yet. It seems 50-50 on whether 3P it's a high crush, but it's usually a mid and slower than 6P. I think 4P can vary alot in animation and range, but i feel they might all speak to the same situation (at least in the minds of the developers), but i still haven't figured out what it is.

Ah, that makes sense. I can't remember for sure, but the answer to the fuzzy is usually a low throw, right?

 

hello.
If i remenber well low throw is an aswer to fuzzy, but not all character equip one.
Delay the throw is universal but perhaps (the most)risky.
Wolf have different throws with slower execution
Low hit. universal and risky
guard breaks for selected character
catch throws for selected character , another type of throws that cant be escape an can grab if the attack of the oponent is in untill the middle of the execution.
if you note the oponent use an advance fuzzy like Fuzzy Guard following by Crouching,then you need the next layer

 

True, Jeffry is the only character in the game without a generic FS sidekick, his causes the same KND on all hits where as his "sidekick" move causes backdash stagger and side crumble, but doesn't give +8 on a crouching opponent nor is it a kick in the first place, but a double limbed attack in regards to Aoi reversing it.

 

To me a character is a tool just like a knife or a computer. You need to, even if it takes baby steps, learn how it works inside and out so that you can clean it, tune it up (or sharpen it), and other forms of maintenance. To best use a tool, you need to know what all you can do with it, just not fluster yourself with too many ideas at once. Spoons, forks, and chopsticks are all good for eating food, just certain foods are easier to eat with one than another, but all can cut food, carry food, and stir food (universals). What makes one suck at one thing, but good at another thing are their unique features (non-universals). When one is trying to promote one over the other, one must not be arrogant with what they feel is a unique feature (such as the spoon thinking that it's the only option for eating rice). Sure, carrying food is the universal main purpose of the three, but it can be useful to understand that they all can also cut food for when the knife is not available (and we don't have tag in VF, so i can't just magically switch characters when i'm in a bad spot).

I can't really think of anything outside of 15/16f counter hit launcher, 17/18f normal hit launcher and 17/18f counterhit launcher, low kicks, sweeps, etc. Things like this tend to have similar frames and properties. The problem is that not all characters have each of these.[/quote]
Knowing what all characters share also allows us to already know the bread and butter that we can expect our opponents to have, which not only lets us pick up their unique features better, but gives us a reliable expectation of what we can pick off of everyone. For example, i know that jab is high, i know the elbow is going to come at the same times, i know that low is going to come when they don't like the pressure. I know that if they attack from afar, it's most likely a 4K, jumping attack, or something else i can sidestep. Exceptions to expectations brought on by understandings of universals are also, obviously, going to be character specific, making it easier to know when to expect X, Y, and Z simply by looking at the matchup.

You're reading me like a book. The distance also gives me more time for reactions, too, which is really big for where i'm at right now. The more i can slow down the match, the more i can manage it while trying to pick up new things.

 

I figured the universals were where this would be done. When making a character, you want to make sure the "basic necessities" are in before you give them special things to leave more room for creativity.

This was actually one of the posts i mentioned in the original post. I bookmarked it so that I wouldn't loose it again.

Indeed. I still feel about this section what i felt about it when i first read it: でっかいなぁ where the closest translation is "huge." My immediate response to it is to break it down to simply assuming the smallest advantage, then moving on from there. From the information above, i know that "two-choice offense" translates to mid and a good throw, but i'm not sure what the counter two-choice offense would be. Finding a launcher that I like should be easy enough, though.

 

@Kohlrak
Just to add, if both moves are the same damage then the one with more execution frames wins.

 

Weird, i never got notified of this post.

Makes sense. So like a ball based sport, someone has the ball and the other's trying to get it back.

Also makes sense.

I figured the side would give me more than that.

If your character's 3P is 15 frames, with -2 on hit and -4 on block (with a launcher followup), but and his 4P is 14 frames but neutral on hit and 5 on block. Would it be smarter then to move to the 3P instead of the 4P?

CD fuzzy?

So if i think they might evade, would it be smart to throw a jab then a throw just to be safe?

And in this situation, if i hit throw and, say, jab or evade, would this then do the jab and also escape if they attempt the throw and then be called "buffering a throw escape?"

I don't mind reading. Also, what exactly is this "hit check" thing i keep hearing on here?

 

Yeah, but if any other characters have similar combinations, i wanted to know if the same logic could apply. But basically, other than that 1 frame, it's just as viable as the elbow.

Could you elaborate on this? I'm not sure why the extra movement would be helpful, unless it's to create space to force them to use a slower move?

I'm specifically worried about this "guaranteed throw" thing. Or is it guaranteed in the true sense that i'm going to go for a ride?

I feel like i have less than a frame to respond to a hit check, or is there a trick to this?

 

It's been awhile since I've thought about how the mechanics work, so I could be wrong about this. Whether you crouch with or , you take the same amount of frames to crouch if the opponent is attacking. That is, you will crouch instantly. So if I'm standing and I want to guard a low attack, I can crouch and guard the attack just before it hits me. If your opponent isn't attacking, then the execution speed for crouching differs upon the method used.

I don't believe that throws fall into the category of an attack. This means that if an opponent uses a throw, your crouch won't be instant. The time it will take to reach the crouching state will depend upon the method you use to crouch. You'll want to use to crouch when at -4 to -5 because it's faster. Using to fuzzy guard at -1 to -3 is appropriate because you don't have to enter the crouching state as quickly as possible in order to crouch under the throw.

A guaranteed throw means that your throw is guaranteed to catch an opponent no matter what he does. This doesn't mean that it can't be escaped, though. Some players might say that a throw is guaranteed in a nitaku situation, since an opponent can't crouch under it. This isn't technically correct, though, since the opponent can still beat a throw with reverse nitaku, which means attacking at -6 (-5 for Taka) to -9. Speaking of nitaku, note that using neither nor will enable you to crouch under throws at this disadvantage, since neither input method will get you into the crouching state quickly enough. You'll still instantly crouch if an opponent uses an attack, though.

The only trick to being able to hit check is to practice. Using Dojo Mode is a good way to practice. Don't just practice defending on guard and attacking on hit, though. Also practice what you would likely do after you you've successfully defended or attacked after you've hit. It helps condition your muscle memory. You can also practice against the CPU to get used to hit checking during a match and not just during a drill. Try not to specifically think about hit checking in a match. This can lead to you purposefully using moves just to practice your reactions, and you won't think about what else you need to consider in a match. To be good at hit checking, it has to be natural. You have to be able to do it when it happens, without thinking about it.

 

Odd, but it makes sense.

Sneaky.

Is that your only option and thus your opponent knows what you're going to do?

That kind of mental exercise takes a while, so i'll put it on the todo list.

That's faster than the average human's reaction time. Slowest is half a second. So this is still pretty tight.

 

It's not your "only" option, but it is the most efficient. There are ways for them to counter it, but there are also ways to counter those countermeasures.

This thread covers that stuff really well: http://virtuafighter.com/threads/vf5-fs-defensive-technique-compendium.19696/

I won't go into what is or isn't reactable, but 15 frame is just the minimum--there's usually a wider window than that, and sometimes the window changes on CH, like Jeffry's 4KP (really hard to hitcheck on NH, very easy on CH).