Dojo Question?

Whats the difference between the Blue colored counter hit and the Yellow counter hit?

 

Recovery counter hit = blue (uh oh, someone learning frames now?)
Counter hit = yellow
Super(?) Counter Hit = red (you usually see this on Jean)

 

Like it's the only flashing thing of VF, still very soft flashes doe.

 

First thing first, @masterpo are you referring to the graphic in the dojo or do you mean the flash of light?
If you mean the first, Sebo already answered, if you refer to the light that means that you're probably hitting from the side, although it's really hard to see the color properly.
Fun fact, i didn't remember that the guard openers generates an orange flash D:

 

I was referring to the graphics in the dojo not the flashes of the character. But thanx for the info


@sebo no m8, no frames for me. But I do want to know what things mean in the dojo. Yes, I do want to know when I'm doing a counter hit, or when my character is turned, but frame info is a bridge to far.

30 fps, 60 fps animation counting to me is like talking about how many centimeters the labia is. Yes centimeter length and width of the labia do have an impact, and that knowledge can be used to help you perform more effectively, but it just takes the fun out of it for me.

Its enough for me to know that there are three types of counter hits, and under which conditions they occur. Its enough for me know if I'm at advantage or disadvantage. I don't need to know how much of an advantage or disadvantage I'm at.

There are graphics in the dojo that don't seem to be explained anywhere. Are the counter hit colors actually explained in the game? There are arrow graphics that appear in the dojo under certain conditions, are the arrows explained anywhere in the game? I'm kind-a guessing they have to do with side turned, back turned, or something like that

On the subject of Frames. Here is analogy just for fun. It holds up more or less.

In a real martial arts match lets take a tae kwon do, or karate match for example.

There are moves and strikes that put you in an advantageous position, or that could leave you at a disadvantage, depending on the circumstances. Human beings have physical limitations on the speed of their actions or reactions depending on height, weight, muscle mass, conditioning, etc. There are actually physics formulas, and calculus equations that could help you calculate how many seconds a round house kick to the head might take and how much damage it would do to an opponent's organs,tissue, and bone, and how long it would take the opponent to recover or if the opponent could recover at all. I could show you how to do these kinds of calculations and how you could get better at doing the calculations. I could also show you how they could be practically applied to a tae kwon do , or karate match. But as you know karate and tae kwondo matches successfully take place all the time even though neither opponent uses calculus to measure seconds per response, seconds per recovery, pounds per pressure of organ damage, or bone fracture. Frame counting is in my personal estimation just way too much information. Calculus could be used during martial arts matches and I'm sure there is some school out there teaching the "science of attack and defense" using derivatives, integration, min, max function optimization, the limit of delta as X approaches Y , blah, blah, blah. Yes of course calculus if properly applied would definitely help you win more matches but., there are other indicators, other ways to approach a match.

Think about how many VF, Tekken, SC, SF, MK, etc matches were played and enjoyed before frame counting became a thing The vast majority of players of FGs have no idea what frames are, and most of those that do, still don't really or thoroughly understand whats going on and they still manage to enjoy the game and find ways to win matches reliably.

I do know that some my Lei Fei's moves do more damage than others, and that some moves have the potential to leave me more vulnerable than others, in the same way that I intuitively know that I've learned that irl a jab does less damage than a muay thai knee to the face. But I couldn't tell you how many damage points any of Lei Fei's moves are. But I have won many thousands of matches in offline versus and online versus. Most real martial artists count not tell you precisely how much physical damage a jab has on a person, or how much damage a muay thai knee to the face has, but they manage to win their matches reliably anyway.

Applying Frame counting to VF or any other fighting game for that matter is tantamount to using calculus and physics equations during a real life martial arts match. Yes in both cases if you actually could correctly count frames, or do the calc it could help you win a match., but calculus or its video game counter part (frame counting) is totally unnecessary

But that being said knowledge is power. The more knowledge you have to defeat your opponent the better off you are. If you've mastered frame counting along with mastering your character's move list and your opponent's character move lists, that dramatically increases the likelihood that you will win.

But why stop at frame counting, there are also equations to account for lag, and other types of network traffic. There is the digital I/O communication between your stick and the CPU in your game console. There are friction, elasticity, wear and tear calculations that can be applied to the mechanical parts inside of your stick that can be applied to the match. There is the eye hand coordination, the fatness of thumbs and palms, the length of
phalanges win handling the controller or stick that all impact performance. With enough research you can get equations, functions, formulas for all of this, and all of it can be used to help you win more matches. Why stop at frame counting

Fuck lets just pull out the stops and do full blown real analysis, analytic geometry, predictive analytics, cognitive modeling, and Myer Briggs personality assessment analysis and add it to our knowledge of frames and guarantee a satisfactory win rate against any opponent at any time

 

In the time it took to write that we could have set up a room and played a set of decent length.

 

Exactly, but I'm actually on the road right now. Had to be in Lansing Michigan this afternoon, and then Columbus Ohio by late tonight. I take my notebook computer with me everywhere (I mean everywhere).

Cheers!

 

What the amount of damage the attack that gives you this type of CH?
I remember it was of a certain amount.

 

So guard breakers are the attacks that make the orange flash I see sometime?

 

A Blue Flash can also be a Side Ch as well.

 

The only time I actually look at frames are when I determining whats punishable, and how negative/plus I am. All those confusing algebraic formulas for shit like evade advantage people like Std Tm be coming up with is stupid. So I feel you on this.

 

Everybody gets into the game as deep as they want. Some people enjoy frame counting. It gives them more confidence in their strategies to win a match. Or it helps them understand why a certain attack didn't work, or how their opponent was able to pull a certain sequence of attacks off. I understand why some players get deep into frame counting. It helps their game. But I know some very strong players that don't use frame counting and they get good results.

There are many ways to win at VF. I've also seen some frame counters get their arse kicked over and over. So just because you are a frame master it doesn't mean your'e guaranteed to win the match.

If you play the game long enough, and face enough match ups , you eventually learn what beats what, and what can and can't be punished etc.

If you face the same player enough times you eventually figure their game out and find a way to eventually beat them even if you don't know any frames for any moves.

Some players are masters at hiding setups with mind games and by the time you realize whats going on frame counting won't help

For some dudes frame counting is a tool that they believe helps them get the job done. I just personally feel frame counting is not for me.

However, I do want to get strong with all my fundamentals and stances:

Inashi
Sabaki
Counter Hits
Nikatu
ETEG
Yomi
All Throw escapes against all fighters
Fuzzy Guard
Buffering
Open Stance
Closed Stance

My fighter has Dokuritsu Shiki, Hai Shiki, Bokutai, Suirankan Shiki, Koko Shiki, Ura Nehan Shiki, Ura Koko Shiki stances.

I'm much more concerned about learning all the possibilities from these stances, combined with the above fundamentals.

I'll leave the frames to the frame counters

 

Truly, @masterpo there is no substitute for playing. You're going to learn 1000x more and more quickly by not being afraid to get that ass beat by good players...

 

But you don't play online. If at all (of which I doubt). So this message is redundant. There's a thin line between a enthusiast and a connoisseur. And you look enthusiastic with every post you do. You worst then those VR discord lames with the talkin but no action.

 

You see this because its a bug. And it only happens if you make Jean the dummy in training mode.

 

Son.,, I routinely get my ass beat by good players, and by some of the top players in the world, and also by total scrubs. I have no fear of losing. My dead duck broken wing Kung Fu is famous for the number of matches its lost against virtually everyone. No one has brought losing to an art form like I have. No one.

So what's your point

 

I don't own an Xbox.

It's not a bug, I mis-remembered what it is called. It is just seen more in dojo versus Jean because of the charge of his attack.

Read the thread title.

 

HI
this is not a bug is because Jean's k is chargeable and in VF some chargeable moves can be super countered. like you know the move uses by cpu to counter hit is a simple k

 

I call bullshit on this. Po, you haven't been online on PSN since the game freaking released in 2012. You play offline and get your asskicked by the cpu. I've been on PSn constantly since FS release and the only time I've seen you online I kicked your ass and you logged off to save your meaningless worthless online rank. Name one "Top Player" you''ve played online in the past two weeks. You're delusional and full of shit.

Why even make a post in dojo if you're going to be ignorant and refuse to learn frames. Then you compound the idiocy by saving you want to master fuzzy guard , ETEG and buffering "instead" those things and frame data aren't mutually exclusive. If you don't know frame data you would fail and all those fundamentals intermittently and not understand why. Epic fail.

 

So you kicked my ass and I logged off to save my "meaningless worthless" rank What rank is that And you say I haven't been online in the past 8 years in order to protect that meaningless worthless rank So are you saying that I play the CPU to keep my "meaningless worthless online rank" that I haven't seen in 8 years since I never go online anymore hmm....


@ICHIBANin10000 did you know that in the Shaolin temple there are three kinds of men: students, disciples and masters. Development of the mind can only be achieved when the body has been disciplined. Now from the crane we learn grace and self control. I am told that the snake teaches us suppleness and rhythmic endurance. The praying mantis teaches us speed and patience. And from the tiger we learn tenacity and power. And lastly from the dragon, we learn to ride the wind. @ICHIBANin10000 if we have the wisdom to learn all may teach us their virtues. I am lowly Po full of bullshit and afraid to lose my "meaningless worthless online " rank. @ICHIBANin10000 my old friend between the fragile beauty of the praying mantis and the fire and passion of the dragon, there is no discord. Between the soft silence of the snake and the eagle's claws there is only harmony. As no two elements of nature are in conflict so when we perceive the ways of nature, we remove conflict within ourselves and discover a harmony of body and mind in accord with the flow of the universe.

I am lowly Po full of bullshit and he who hides behind the CPU. But this I have learned my friend ICHIBANin10000 if you truly perceive the way of nature , no force of man can harm you. Do not meet a wave head on: avoid it. You do not have to stop force, its easier to redirect it. ICHIBANin10000 perhaps you should learn more ways to preserve rather than destroy. Avoid rather than check. Check rather than hurt. Hurt rather than maim. Maim rather than kill. For all life is precious nor can any be replaced. Not even the life of lowly Po full of bullshit who in order to protect his meaningless online worthless rank hasn't played online on PSN in 8 years.

@ICHIBANin10000 oh master of frames and caller out on bullshit. Did you know that where there is no contention there is neither defeat nor victory. The supple willow does not content against the storm, yet it survives. Weakness prevails over strength. Gentleness conquers. Become the calm and the restful breeze that tames the violent sea. To know nature is to put oneself in perfect harmony with the universe. As heaven and earth are one, so must we seek a discipline of mind and body within ourselves.

Oh @ICHIBANin10000 I lowly Po full of bullshit yield humbly