Group effort to learn each character?

If the purpose is to learn each character well enough to avoid shenanigans then I say this is laudable goal and quite achievable. I remember during VF4 time we had an "how to avoid BS"-thread for all characters. I think this is something similar.

Im game.

 

http://virtuafighter.com/vf4/

The link to it from there is dead unfortunately. Anyone got a working link?

 

I entered the address into the Internet Archive Wayback Machine. Below is an archived link out of four that I followed.

http://web.archive.org/web/2006062914280...8830/Main/78830

 

Yea thats it. We need something similar for console VF5. The idea is to list things that are guaranteed and what isnt and what you need to do to avoid the unguaranteed stuff.

 

The purpose is to get everyone involved looking through the eyes of someone who would use that character.

For me going over character's command lists isn't nearly enough for me to think as though I am playing as that character, therefore I am completely unaware of what the "best things" are for other characters in certain situations.

Think of it with Sarah in mind, as a Sarah user you know what she mainly looks for when she enters FL stance but most people who don't use Sarah may not see it.

 

Any news on this project?

 

I suppose I can start with Brad, since I know him best.


Throws

Setups are the name of the game here. His throw damage isn't spectacular, but the setups are damaging.

- Don't use a rising attack from where you are if you notice Brad using an OM afterwards. In addition, using an oki geri in-place might result in you eating his , one of the game's most damaging launchers.

- Using an oki geri can be crushed by Brad's . The position you're left in makes the attempt for the crush ideal.

- In my opinion, this is Brad's best throw. Try to exact recover in-place, and do not roll to the sides. You're probably going to want to consistently enter the throw escape command for this throw.

- A low damage but in my opinion underated throw. A light down attack is guaranteed. Watch for players who give that up for oki. They might try to OM or PT towards your head. I don't advise rising attacks after this throw.

- Brad's second best throw in my estimation. It deals the most direct damage and offers good oki. My recommendation is to try to exact recover to the sides to reduce the damage to 45. Staying on the ground is an option against Brad players who attempt to throw out an oki option without checking whether or not you've recovered. Your rising attack will likely hit in this case based upon the options I've noticed most (, a mid, or a throw). Against better Brad's, always try to recover. You probably will want to enter the throw escape for this throw consistently, although I believe that the direction takes priority. Against a wall, this throw is especially dangerous because a heavy down attack is guaranteed.

- This throw moves the opponent towards Brad's back but does no damage. It sets up wall combos and ring outs.

Right Side - A light down attack is guaranteed, but a heavy down attack is avoided by rolling to the sides quickly.

Punishment

This is where Brad excels. Don't be playing unsafe because he has a damaging option for every situation -11 upwards. This is common sense, but there are things to be aware of.

- Brad can cancel the .

Hitbox issues - If Jacky's or whiffs, his might whiff. If your opponent is accustomed to using this option, abuse it while you can. I think it might whiff against Eileen's too.

-> -> from the closed foot position (reversed for ) - Brad has the option to enter into his stances from here. If you notice a double slip, Slipping Left might be coming. Be ready.

Here is a good list of Brad's punishment options.

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/249258/2

Okizeme

Another area where Brad excels. As with all characters don't roll to the sides from FDFA. He has good tools to deal with that. Be sure to vary your rising attacks to avoid getting hit with his often.

If he comes at you with Long Ducking, ETEG or use a sabaki move that beats high punches and knees. He's rarely at an advantage using it for oki.

Ask tonyfamilia about Phasing Turn setups.

Walls

A common wall combo is -> . You can recover after the second move, but Brad's might autopilot in anticipation of getting a light down attack. If you recover, his sidekick will be thrown out instead. Be ready to take advantage.

Clinch

Holding escapes the elbow. Holding escapes the knees. For Position Change moves, enter the direction opposite to which he throws you except for back. In my opinion, this is his best option. Two movements and he gets for free. Beware of walls and edges of the rings.

If he uses or , you can recover. Do it in place. Don't get caught for big damage.

Stances

Easier than people think to deal with. Check out the list of moves that Slipping options can beat.

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/254514#Post254783

Don't freeze up against a Dempsey Roll, his infinite punching string from Slipping Left and Slipping Right. Evade and hit him. It's that easy.



Aoi and Pai can't throw him after they guard this move unless their backs are to the wall maybe. For Aoi this might be only from the closed foot position.

Anti-Throw Clash

Brad has no notable moves that beat throw clashes.


I'm going to update this if needed.

 

This is a key tool for Brad. While one of the games best elbow attacks, it's also one of the hardest to utilize. Hit checking for him is key, and players who autopilot from it are asking for big damage on them. Part of the issue is that it is harder to fuzzy guard off of this elbow than other characters' equivalents (e.g. Jacky's ). He needs to either enter a crouch dash late to avoid entering into a stance, or he needs to press first. More options to deal with means a slower reaction time for many players. A Brad player might choose to go into a stance every time or delay . The former is weak because an elbow can beat any option that Brad can opt for on guard. The latter is -18 on guard. Take note of Brad players who exhibit these habits.

The elbow can stagger crouching opponents. Be ready to break a stagger or eat -> Slipping Left for big damage.

Reverse Nitaku

This is a weak point for Brad. He doesn't have many moves that avoid while attacking. Stances and tend to be unreliable. won't throw clash and goes under highs, but is slow and -6 on hit.

This weakness is somewhat offset by his excellent attack class moves. These are used to beat other characters' reverse nitaku options at an advantage. His sidekick leads to the clinch on CH, he has a safe (mostly) knee launcher on CH, and he has good elbows. These can beat the opponents' sabaki and inashi options. Take note of them.

Keep Away

is his best keep away tool. It has long range and is safe on guard. The problem is when he is CH, leading to a backstagger. might be used for keep away at a certain distance, and leads to a combo on CH.

 

Good info Libertine!!! This is great that this was posted up here, since I've decided to relearn BR. I never truly took the time out to learn him, especially after picking up JE as a main. I'm trying to figure out some different ways to get a + and a CH kick or knee to the clinch. I have 3 questions though:

1. Off of +, I'm able to get a waving body to a smashing hook on the majority of the characters. Aside from that combo, and doing , are there better options from connecting with +?

2. What are common "frame traps" used to setup for the CH to the clinch?

3. Off of the clinch, in most matches I play I'm able to get 2 s, a position change, and then a 3rd . I know I can just go do the 3rd kick instead of doing it after a position change, I merely do it to shave time off the clock while having more health. Upon catching an opponent in a clinch, what's normally the best option(s) from that particular situation?

When I say clinch I mean neck catch (referring to the actual move name). I grew up using clinch instead of neck catch, so for those that might not know what I'm talking about I hope that clears a few things up.

 

Cheers Lib, but man this is just too much information for me to be reading right now. If I'm honest the whole point of this little project is so that I don't need to read pages and pages of P/K/G to get my head around a character, I don't work that way.

I asked you all to put your names down if you want to be in it. None of you did so far. Besides my replacement stick is here now and I even set up a 1month trial account: BrokenHazzerone. As soon as you all say you want to do it, it happens.

 

In your topic post you mentioned shenanigans, but for example Libertine didnt really list any.. Therefore while the info is nice, it doesnt particularly help one to play against Brad?

 

It's much easier to concentrate on one thing at a time, even though he's wrote a fair bit there's nothing stopping you going through it one step at a time.

 

A few hours ago I wanted to write something but decided to see how the thread would evolve.
Since nobody wrote anything new in a fair while, I'll rewrite my post.

Hazzerone seems to want something that only lists shenanigans and goes completely straight to the point.
Personally though I liked Libertine's post and would like to have even more information than that. (Shenanigans and not-shenanigans.)

I think that what could be interesting would be to pick a character, start a thread in that character's dojo, make it a sticky, and either list condensed information, or list information and then discuss the character. We'd analyze a character for one week.

After the week, we'd leave the thread open but would start one for another character. (It could be two or three weeks too, one week seems a bit short to me.)


The bad thing about that would be that it's kinda the point of dojos in general: learning about a character.
The good things would be that it's condensed, all in a thread, and includes shenanigans or general things to look out for and avoid, making those pieces of information easy to find.
And of course it would attract everyone's eyes, especially if people are not afraid of participating.

Does it sound good? If it does, starting such a thread in Brad's forum including Libertine's posts should be a nice start to see if it goes well.

 

I was thinking of maybe putting my posts in a Beginner Brad thread and start a Ask a Question, Get an Answer thread too. The first lists his basics while the second is a thread where random questions can be asked. This means repeat questions are allowed for people who don't feel like digging around for information. Maybe a thread like that would be good for every character's board. People can ask whatever they want without worrying about whether or not it is relevant to an existing thread or creating a new thread for their insular problems. It would be only one disorganized thread.

 

Im still confused whether its supposed to be "learn character" like in topic, or "learn to play against a character"

 

The intent seems to be to avoid shenanigans, so it's about learning how to defend against them.

I think that more info is welcome though. Learning what the opponent is looking for, even if it's not shenanigans, deserves to be included in your anti-character strategy.

 

Bingo. I don't just want a wall of text explaining what character's can do. You all seemed to point out the fact I mentioned "shenanigans" just because I mentioned them doesn't mean the whole intent of this is to avoid them, it's simply to understand each character individually and what they "look for". I am literally asking you all to use the same character for a while, play online and in a party chat with others using a mic (preferably but not necessary), if you don't play online by all means play offline and then you can share what you've learnt here.

For me trying to read up on frame data for a character I don't use and reading walls of text like what Libertine posted up is like trying to eat a whole text book in one mouthful.

 

You know what will be funny? If someone interested in the game starts playing online and everyone is using Lau or some shit.

 

Fixed.