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Multiple scruby questions

Discussion in 'New Starter' started by droy900, Nov 13, 2018.

  1. droy900

    droy900 Member

    Hey I'm back with more questions and this time I got to play someone who actually knows how to play the game on a basic level EYES
    some of my questions are character specific but I didn't want to make multiple threads for a short answer question so I'm sorry in advance for asking so many questions .

    1.Is there a frame disadvantage that once you get put in, doing a defensive move stops being an option because you'll get hit if you attempt it ?
    2.How many frames does it take to turn around when in backturned in VF5FS specifically ?
    3.Does Vanessa's [4][6][P][+][G] only Sabaki kicks ?
    4.Am I supposed to guess between the low and mid options after blocking one of Jean's charged moves or can I fuzzy it if he doesn't change his timing ?
    5.I saved the replays of some of my matches but I have no means of recording them other than my phone, would anyone be willing to give me some critique even though I'm pretty new and bad and don't know my character very well ?
     
    BlackGeneral and Tricky like this.
  2. Mister

    Mister Well-Known Member Content Manager Wolf Content Manager Sarah Content Manager Aoi

    1) Yes. You cannot crouch fuzzy when you have a disadvantage from -6 or worse. You can crouch fuzzy only when you are -1 to -5. If you try to crouch fuzzy at -6 the throws will still connect and mids may hit you (but i'm not 100% on this so don't quote me).
    2) If i remember correctly you take 3frame before you can block something SIDE TURNED. Also in the wiki there should be all the numbers you are looking for this particolar questions.
    3) I'm not a Vanessa player but 46p+g is a throw. So maybe you mean another command. But I have familiarity VS Vanessa and the 2 sabakis she uses the most is one that will sabaki kicks and knees and another one that will stops punches.
    4) Actually you can dodge in a specific direction if Jean uses the follow ups after blocking a charged attack. Just keep in mind you are -6 and fuzzy and cfuzzy isn't an option if he starts some mixups involving throws and guard break.
    5) A replay is still a replay. Also you can upload a replay to the VF built in replay system. Just hit save replay when you finish the match and you can rewatch your matches with notations whenever you want and upload any replay whenever you want. The only (and biggest) downside is that you can upload one match only. Uploading another one will erase the previous replay.
    That said you can upload a match and ask a friend to record the match once they download it online.
    Also xbone has a built in way to record gameplay footage so if you are a microsoft player keep that in mind.

    I hope that I cleared most of your doubts. If not keep asking and reading other people answers.
     
    droy900 likes this.
  3. Kruza

    Kruza Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Kruza
    I'll try to help answer your questions:

    #1 - I am not totally sure what you're asking here. Are you referring to certain disadvantage situations when evading is not a viable option?

    #2 - It takes 6 frames to turn around from back-turned position without attacking or dashing.

    #3 - You may mean to ask about Defensive Style [4][6][P][+][K] sabaki move instead. I'm not sure on which particular attacks this sabaki move works on, but I can test it out later.

    #4 - Jean's max charged [3][3][P][K] attack is unblockable. His other max charged moves leaves an opponent at -6 when blocked, so the answer to this question is "yes" as fuzzy guarding won't work in this situation.

    #5 - You should probably ask an experienced player to assist you here. Which characters do you have saved replays for?

    Kruza
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
    droy900 and jimi Claymore like this.
  4. Tricky

    Tricky "9000; Eileen Flow Dojoer" Content Manager Eileen

    #1) Short answer: YES

    Long answer: if I'm understanding you correctly I think you are asking if there are situations where you can't use evade (they call it defense move sometimes). if you try to evade and you fail (i.e. nothing was evaded) even if you dash cancel the failed evade movement, then if you try to evade again right away, you will not be able to evade a linear attack. I made a thread about it way back in the day and "tricky evade jail" but I think calling it "evade jail" is probably okay too. . . you know, if you don't' like cool names and all.

    #5) if you upload it, I could give you a general feedback video via twitch.
     
    droy900 likes this.
  5. Sebo

    Sebo Well-Known Member Content Manager Taka Content Manager Jeffry

    PSN:
    Sebopants
    3. Vanessa's DS 46P+K sabakis Mid kicks, side kicks, Knees, and high kicks. Maybe high knees (are they still in, I know they changed OS Vanessa's PK in a Jab-Kick, and I think I remember sabaki-ing that before... maybe)?
    4. You must mean PPP(charge)->PPK/KK. Both options can be evaded to Jean's back. However, once the Jean player knows you're doing that and they adapt, they'll use that frame advantage differently.
     
    droy900 likes this.
  6. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    If by "Defensive Move" you're referring to evading, then the answer is no, there is no frame disadvantage that prevents you from performing a DM (evade). An evade from disadvantage will always be successful provided:
    • the attack is not guaranteed,
    • the attack is not full-circular, or
    • the evade is in the correct direction against half-circular attacks.

    When Back Turned (BT) it will take 6 frames before you can guard. Think of this as a defensive penalty. However, you will bypass this penalty if you simply crouch or attack from BT. To illustrate by example:

    Kage's [6][P][+][G] throw flips over the opponent and exposes their back (i.e. the opponent is now BT). After this throw, Kage has 12 frames advantage which effectively means the opponent cannot turn around and guard, nor evade, for 18 (12 + 6) frames. So anything that executes in 18 frames or faster should effectively be guaranteed, right? Not quite! The caveat to this is that the attack is only guaranteed if it cannot be crouched under. So consider these two attacks for Kage:

    [1][P][+][K] Somenwari:
    • hit level: high
    • execution: 15f

    [3][K] Nakageri:
    • hit level: mid
    • execution: 16f
    So even though the [1][P][+][K] is faster than [3][K], the fact that it's a high attack and not truly guaranteed (remember, the "real" advantage is only 12f after this throw) means that it can be simply crouched under. However, the [3][K] cannot be crouched (it's mid!) so the only way to deal with it is to guard, and since guarding from BT incurs the 6f penalty, the opponent will not be able to guard in time.

    As others have noted, you have the incorrect command notation so it's difficult to tell if you're referring to [4][6][K] or [4][6][P][+][K] since these are both Sabakis with a [4][6] input. But, if you consult Vanessa's Move Analysis wiki page, you'll find:

    [4][6][K] Parrying High Kick works against:
    • HP (high punch)
    • HE (high elbow)
    • MP (mid punch)
    • EL (elbow, aka mid elbow)

    [4][6][P][+][K] Leopard Strike works again:
    • HK (high kick)
    • MK (mid kick)
    • SK (side kick)
    • KN (knee)

    If you're referring the moves he has available after a maximum charge (e.g. [P][P][P] (maximum charge)), then consulting Jean's command list reveals the following two immediate options:

    [P] Kyoshin Gyakuken:
    • hit level: mid
    • execution: 16f
    • evade direction: any

    [K] Kyoshin Gedanshu:
    • hit level: low
    • execution: 19f
    • evade direction: back

    So, as @Sebo points out, if you evade in the direction of Jean's back, you'll successfully evade both options. However, if you wanted to attempt to guard both options - which is what you originally asked - then given that the low kick is slower you could attempt a delayed crouch. But this can be undone very easily if your opponent varies their timing.

    BTW, this is something you can easily setup in training mode with the CPU performing these two followups in a record/playback to get a feel for both evading and attempting to delay crouch guard against Jean's max charge strings.

    For the purposes of critiquing, phone quality should be fine. I would suggest you try to mount your phone on a stable surface just to avoid unwanted shakiness which can result in unpleasant viewing. Also, if you're playing with a specific character then I'd suggest you post your video(s) in that character's sub-forum.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  7. droy900

    droy900 Member

    Yooooo Thanks a bunch dudes that helped a lot, it means a lot to me to know that the community is always around to help newcomers like me.
    For the Sabaki move question yes I meant defensive stance [4][6][P][+][K] I must have brain farted because I was labbing the game for hours :p and I'll upload one of my matches as soon as I can .
     
    jimi Claymore and Kruza like this.
  8. droy900

    droy900 Member

    Oh and yes I meant evading when I said defensive move. because in Tekken once you're at -5~-6 side stepping stops being an option because you can get tagged by almost anything so I was wondering if there's something similar in VF.
    Sorry for not being clear about some of my question and some of the errors I made .
     
    jimi Claymore and Tricky like this.
  9. Kruza

    Kruza Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Kruza
    Well, regardless of frame disadvantage number, it is not possible to evade a full-circular attack at all. And against a half-circular move you can still get hit when you try to evade toward the wrong side (the arching path of attack).

    Kruza
     
  10. Tricky

    Tricky "9000; Eileen Flow Dojoer" Content Manager Eileen

    Well that explains why sidestepping feels so damn inconsistent.
     
  11. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    So just to emphasise, no, nothing like that exists in VF!

    No worries, man! It's all part of the learning experience.
     
    droy900 likes this.
  12. erdraug

    erdraug Well-Known Member Content Mgr Vanessa

    XBL:
    erdraug
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
    Myke likes this.
  13. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    @erdraug all good, man! And thanks once again for your Vanessa content contributions, which are obviously still paying dividends to this day.

    I've amended my post accordingly.
     
  14. Tricky

    Tricky "9000; Eileen Flow Dojoer" Content Manager Eileen

    This is why I still for the life of me don't know all the sabaki's of some characters on some moves. It's the one hole we still have across our wiki. . . EIleen's 4P+K+G sabaki dosen't have in it's notes that it catches High P/K and Low P's and gives a variable amount of frame advantage based on the attack sabaki'd.
     

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