New player "essentials"-console, hardware, etc.?

Hi guys, ^_^

I'm relatively new to Virtua Fighter, though I am familiar with having played some of the games in the past - albeit somewhat superficially. I currently own only a Playstation 2 and Gamecube. My questions debate the purchase of an Xbox 360 or PS3, additional hardware and resources, or involve just some more general, fun stuff. Thanks for looking!

1. Console: PS3 or Xbox360? I am somewhat inclined to a backwards-compatible PS3 for its catalog of games aside from VF5, but it has come to my attention (courtesy of CobiyukiOS) that the 360 is the better candidate of the two for playing VF5. 360's VF5, apparently, has online play and a much improved offline AI for single-player. However, I'm not much for online playing, even if opting not to do so is essentially shooting myself in the foot if I hope to become a competent VF player! I'm just really torn between the systems, lol!

2. Joystick: Using the pad on a normal controller can inhibit performance when playing from what I've heard. By how much though? It's not that I wish to be merely a casual VF player, but such hardware seems a significant monetary burden in addition to the investment of a new console. Furthermore, I don't really intend to play other fighting games as extensively. Can I still be somewhat good using a controller? Either way, from the research I've done here, it appears the Virtua Fighter Hori Sticks are generally satisfactory. Here are three that have caught my eye:

a) Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution Stick- http://cgi.ebay.com/Hori-style-Virtua-Fi...%3A1%7C294%3A50

b) Virtua Fighter 4 "Normal" Stick- http://cgi.ebay.com/JP-Playstation-Virtu...p3286.m20.l1116

c) Virtua Fighter 5 Stick- http://cgi.ebay.com/Virtua-Fighter-5-Liv...p3286.m20.l1116

If the above links don't work, anyone can see the items I'm referring to by typing in "Virtua Fighter stick" in an Ebay search if they so desire. Oh, and are these sticks compatible with American PS2/PS3/Xbox systems?

3. Strategy guide(s?): From what I've read, the BradyGames VF5 strategy guide book is a must-have considering that the dojo feature in VF5 is notably lacking in comparison to the fuller tutorial system found in VF4:Evo. I've also contemplated the Prima VF4 strategy guide given its low price, but apparently it is of poor quality. Any elaboration on either of these books would be most welcome.

4. Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution: The extensive tutorial found here has often been cited as a key building block for defense and basic technique, a proverbial stepping stone toward success in VF5. I really won't pass this one up with its affordability, but is playing and "mastering" the rest of the VF4 game recommended before proceeding onto 5? If I wanted to save money, could I briefly skip buying Evo. and jump into 5's dojo and still do reasonably well? Or is it best to be talented first in VF4 before attempting to do anything else at all?

5. Other helpful resoures to build VF proficiency include: Internet discussion sites and guides, recorded fight videos, and human opponents. Anything else?

6. Misc: Is the Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution OST worth getting? What about any of the VF4 action figures/statues (I'm looking at the Akira ones, specifically)? ^_^; Lol, sorry guys, just had to ask! (But I am serious if anyone knows, haha.)

7. In summary, my quandary:The most affordable solution for me is to not buy any next-gen system and just get VF4 Evo. with a joystick for my PS2, but I'm afraid I'll get bored. The medium path is to buy a new console with VF5 and have fun using just the controller, but I'm afraid I'll be less skillful in the game. The most in-depth and rewarding choice would be to buy both VF games, the guide(s?), and the necessary console and joystick, but the expenses for everything are sure to be ridiculous. So how do I balance keeping up with Virtua Fighter--start bored with VF4 Evo. and work my way up; start enthused with VF5 and a controller with Evo. on the side being less skillful without a joystick, or go broke getting everything I can and then picking and choosing based on my purchases? LOL, as you can see (all two of you reading), I'm in quite a bind.

Finally, thank you very, VERY much to anyone patient enough to have sat through this and for anyone willing to attempt a helpful reply. You don't know how much not feeling lost anymore as to what to do would mean to me, and how much it will mean to me to start, at last, in the right direction. ^_^

My thanks again!

Take care,
Airaku

 

I suggest you try BOTH games and choose the one YOU prefer! If you don't happen to know somebody who owns both copies of the game, why don't you try visiting your local videogames store and present them with your quandary? They'll be more than happy to do a little demonstration if they have the games in store.

 

Re: New player "essentials"-console, hardware, etc.?

If you're just playing single-player, this is the thing to do. No way you're going to get bored with evo, it's a more complete package than any other fighting game. Discussion of VF4 is kinda dead at this point (but again, so is discussion of VF5), but there is loads of useful information in forum archives, the wiki, and http://virtuafighter.com/vf4/

 

Hey erdraug and KoD! Thank you both so much your replies! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

erdraug: I'm probably going to have to go with your second option, seeing as none of my friends play VF (or ANY video games, for that matter ), but I have to wonder if my nearby EBGames will be as useful as you suggest. I tried asking once before, and the guys working there were all like, "Er... do you mean STREET Fighter? Because we could really tell you more about that one." Maybe they were just having a bad day? I'll try asking again, I guess. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

KoD: Actually, I am indeed aware of Evo.'s rich gameplay, I guess I just wanted to be up-to-date with VF5 (even if it seems I'm already somewhat late, lol). Plus, VF5 has the tempting new characters, beautiful graphics, is supposedly more accessible than the VF4, and has the ability to choose fighting opponents your level in Quest Mode-- but if I go with VF5, I'll be playing the game with less competence without the Evo. tutorial or a joystick! This is giving me a headache! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

---
For anyone reading: Putting aside the issue of money, the main issue for me is trying to balance being a good VF player without being too behind the times. VF4:Evo and a joystick would encourage developing my skill, but without much in the way of someone to play with; VF5 minus a joystick has the increased likelihood of a peer player and above reasons I gave to KoD, but seems less useful for learning.

So, therefore, I ask:

1. Is VF4 Evo. w/ a joystick, with or without a peer player, more profitable in the long run? In other words, is it best if I get VF4 Evo. and a joystick first, because then I can always "graduate" to VF5 when I'm ready?

2. Is throwing myself "in the deep end of the pool", i.e. VF5, first, and then going back to VF4 Evo. for practice is not a good idea? Is it better to do VF4->VF5 then it is to do VF5->VF4?

3. Is VF5, on the whole, a less satisfying single-player experience, despite the sexy graphics? =( Despite sexy Eileen? And all the other babes? ;D Despite more quest items? Etc.

Thanks anyone for at least looking! I am always, always grateful for any words back! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Sorry for being such a n00b, ^_^
Airaku

 

If your goal is to improve quickly then I recommend playing Evo for a few months before considering moving on to VF5. I've been playing VF5 for a few months and have found it hard work to learn the fighting system without a Tutorial Mode, so last month I bought a copy of Evo and borrowed my brothers PS2 for a couple of weeks. I learned more in those two weeks than at any other time and have thought about buying a PS2 just so I can spend some more time with Evo's tutorials.

Even though I have read a lot of articles about the VF system here on VFDC and elsewhere, and could tell you a lot about how the engine works, what beats what, and when to use this or that move etc, actually applying that knowledge in real time is another matter entirely. The Evo Tutorial Mode allows you to be practising Multiple Throw Escapes or Fuzzy Guard etc. within 20 seconds of turning on the console, along with explanations of how to execute them and why you'd want to, that can be repeated until you have the muscle memory and reactions down to a tee. Achieving the same results in VF5 is a much slower and more confusing process, and you won't be told if you aren't doing it right. Even if you decide on VF5, pick up a copy of Evo from a used bin or eBay - it'll only set you back a few bucks and you'll def. thank me for it.

 

Hi Falco! Wow, thanks a ton for putting things into such a perspective for me! The depth you went to explain things has given me a much deeper appreciation for VF4 Evo. now. I previously was unaware of how exactly robust and useful the tutorial system in Evo. was (though I had some idea), but your anecdote, coupled with KoD's statement of the entire game being a worthy, thorough gaming experience, has really helped me make my decision-- I've chosen to get Evo. and train hard with my fighter first, and then logically advance to VF5 when I feel I am ready. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

With the matter of which game to start with resolved, I still have another burning issue that I leave open to anybody to answer: joysticks. Because I'm going to be playing on a PS2, I have only to pick between two on eBay that have caught my eye. As mentioned in my original post, the joystick I intend to buy would be used primarily, maybe even exclusively, for the Virtua Fighter series. I tried searching the boards here to see which was better of the two, but couldn't find anything to really say which one. My brief questions then are as follows:

1. Which of these two joysticks are better (regardless of price) in terms of performance, feel, durability, user-friendliness, etc.? Or are they essentially the same? Reasons for answers are always appreciated. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Stick 1- http://cgi.ebay.com/Hori-style-Virtua-Fi...bayphotohosting

Stick 2- http://cgi.ebay.com/JP-Playstation-Virtu...bayphotohosting

EDIT: I've heard that the original VF4 Hori stick has been generally manufactured better and that the Evo. stick runs down sooner. Any thoughts on this? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

2. Are PS2 joysticks cross-compatible with the PS3 system?


That will be it as far as my questions about joysticks go! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Any help is welcomed and valued! I might have a few questions afterward and loose ends that I may want to wrap up, but most of my inquiries have been satisfied already. To those willing to offer whatever knowledge they can, you rock! ^_^

 

I have no first-hand experience on the evo-stick but I would guess both sticks are on very similar level (which isnt very high) in "performance, feel, durability, user-friendliness".

However, while I appreciate the dedication to VF, I would humbly suggest that you get a stick with 6 buttons so you can play other fighting games easier should you want to. Would make it easier to resell too.

 

Both those sticks are not good. the first one is a rip-off, the second one is the first VF4 stick, not as good as the VF4E one.

but anyway, those sticks are the same essentially as the EX2 for the 360.

My advice is: get a cheap 360 and VF5, you will not regret it. And get a copy of VF4E, even if you dont have a PS2 stick, because the basic theory carries on to VF5. you need to understand the system, then VF5 training is good enough to practice everything.

can you afford a 360? they are really cheap. I live in UK, I can get you a cheap copy of VF5!

 

Re: New player "essentials"-console, hardware, etc.?

I do not own the Hori VF4 stick but I've heard from quite a few people that they preferred the VF4 stick over the VF4E stick.

I do own the Hori VF4E and I would say it is a better quality stick than the EX2.

 

Re: New player "essentials"-console, hardware, etc.?

I have two ASCII FT2 fighting sticks for the PS2. The have eight buttons. They are used. They are stiffer than Hori sticks. They are not easy to mod.

I am considering putting them on Ebay. Let me know if you want to purchase one or both of them. I would sell them to you for $40 each plus shipping.

 

Re: New player "essentials"-console, hardware, etc.?

Thank you all for your comments! I would like to address what each of you said because you were all so helpful. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Manjimaru: There might be a slight difference between both sticks, maybe, but you have a point about seeking out a joystick with more buttons for other games. Even without the experience of using the VF4/VF4E stick, could you explain what makes you think they wouldn't have a high level of quality? Does it have something to do with the brand, maybe?

MAtteoJHDY: Well man, I genuinely appreciate your kind offer but I don't think it should be necessary. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I am leaning to go the cheap route and just get Evo. and a stick anyway. Because my budget would confine me to only one next-gen console to play for a while (from which to base a future, long-term game collection), I think it best to wait and see whether or not I want a 360 or PS3. (Yeah, I've JUST realized this, lol.) Maybe if I wait long enough VF5R will come out on either console by then too. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Thanks especially for the comparisons of the joysticks, by the way-- I'm curious, how did you come by this information? Personal experience?

Shag: Hmm, so VF4>VF4E>EX2. I'll conclude, however, that these sticks aren't worth purchasing when the general suggestion of them hasn't been very favorable.

Plague: I like the sound of your offer! I would be interested in one of the sticks but am still a little nervous about its condition. (Sorry, nothing against you; long story short, I've had bad experiences in the past with buying used things from others.) Also, do the additional buttons significantly complicate playability with games like Virtua Fighter? Are ASCII FT2 fighting sticks superior to the Hori sticks I have considered and listed here? I trust whatever you have to say, but I'm curious if anyone has anything to add about the quality ASCII FT2 sticks as well.


Update from original post: So I've decided to wait on getting VF5 for either 360 or PS3, and will start my Virtua Fighter experience with Evolution and a stick. Additional VF merchandise will be saved for future consideration, and my only questions left pertain to joysticks. Open questions: 1. Are ASCII FT2 fighting sticks any good and superior to the Hori VF4/VF4E ones? 2. If not, which joysticks are better? 3. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Virtua-Fighter-4-E...318117002r37942 = yay or nay? This one looks different, but something tells me it's the same kind of less impressive stick as the others.

Let's see if I have anything left to ask after this, haha. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Once more, your tips are welcomed! And anyone can send me a PM about this or just for conversation's sake too! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

Re: New player "essentials"-console, hardware, etc.?

Hi

Yes, personal experience, I have tried those sticks and they all are more or less the same as the EX2. Hori parts, quite easy to mod the buttons, quite hard to completely mod the lever.

the stick on that link is the one I have, it's a decent stick, solid entry-level stick.

I suggest you start using some easier char, don't rush in with Akira straight away. This game is a marathon, not a sprint lol.

 

I don't like them as much Hori VF4:Evo sticks. I bought two Evo sticks after trying them in 2003. My ASCII sticks have not been used since then. They WERE used often to play VF4 on PS2.

 

Hey Matteo! Thank you for another really helpful comment! When you said you "tried those sticks and they all are more or less the same as the EX2", did you mean you played with the ASCII FT2 as well? If so, how are they? I ask because I'd like what you describe as a "solid entry-level stick". I'm not really that concerned about making any modifications; all I'm looking for is a durable joystick that may have a slight edge over others because of design or whatever. So in others words, I want basic... but GOOD basic, you know? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif (Not Pelican, in other words, lol!)

About Akira... haha. Maybe things have changed in 5, but when I used to play the games I always used him and wasn't too bad either. Maybe he got harder to use (from what I've generally heard mastering him can be difficult), but I guess because of nostalgia I want to try him out again. He's like... an old friend I miss like crazy and that I hope hasn't become a jerk. If that analogy makes sense.

And lol, I know about VF not being a sprint. I love that marathon analogy, it's so fitting. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif As a student who is out of state with my games back home, I guess I've gone into withdrawal and might come off as a little overenthusiastic, lol. I'm not trying to get good in Virtua Fighter as quickly as possible or anything; quite the opposite really, I want to savor the slow but steady learning process by getting my ass kicked. LOL. I think a lot of fun in Virtua Fighter comes from when you're confronted by what you haven't learned yet and that whenever you think you've hit rock-bottom there's always a new nuance to discover. And that when you learn anything, even the little things, you can't help but smile you figured it out. Just my lame thoughts. I'm weird, huh? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

You should PM me sometime! I don't have any of the VF stuff yet, but I always like someone to talk to on the subject. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

EDIT- Plague: I'll have to think about it. I'm still interested in hearing any other feedback from others on the functionality and effectiveness of the ASCII FT2 sticks if it's at all possible to share. Would you say it's still good enough as an entry-level stick? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Whoever would like to chime in on this joystick debacle is more than welcome! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif My choices are now either:

1. VF4 (Original) Hori Stick

http://cgi.ebay.com/JP-Playstation-Virtu...p3286.m20.l1116

2. VF4E Hori Stick

One version - http://cgi.ebay.com/Rare-Import-Virtua-F...%3A1%7C294%3A50

Another, two different colors (same version?) - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Virtua-Fighter-4-E...318117002r37942

http://cgi.ebay.com/Virtua-Fighter-4-sig...p3286.m20.l1116

What's the difference between the versions of the first one and the latter two? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif

3. ASCII FT2 Stick (I have no idea what these look like, lol.)

4. Something else (that hopefully isn't too expensive, lol).

 

And heres a very accurate description of what ASCII sticks are like by my friend /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

"ASCII sticks will be used by cockroaches to play VF after nuclear holocaust" - Shinta

ie. They are one of the most durable sticks known to man, but you may not like playing with them much cause they are so stiff.
You propably end up looking like a professional armwrestler /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
(My first stick playing VF on PS2 was an ASCII acquired from friend who had acquired it from another person who had acquired it from somewhere else.. )

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Even without the experience of using the VF4/VF4E stick, could you explain what makes you think they wouldn't have a high level of quality? Does it have something to do with the brand, maybe?
</div></div>
Airaku: I have experience from one of the sticks, and having seen dozens and dozens of Hori products I know that they are more than likely clones underneath the surface. The only Hori-product decisively different from the rest is the Real Arcade Pro-stick. Those two sticks are what I would say "medium" quality. And thats when they are new. This is fine for an entry-level player. Both of those sticks are still propably better than the Ascii's that Plague is talking about ^^ Maybe I shouldnt have said this.

 

Haha, that's a great quote Manjimaru! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Damn it. Damn it ALL. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif I can't afford (literally) to get both a Hori an ASCII. I do like the sound of the latter's toughness, but... um... what do Hori sticks do better again? They move/feel better? ACII is, going by what's been said here, apparently durable but cumbersome... and Hori sounds like it can wear down but its looser (?). Why isn't there just a straight answer like: "BETWEEN THE STICKS MENTIONED HERE, THIS ONE IS THE BEST"? Oy. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Maybe I should flip a coin, hahaha! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

EDIT - LOL Manjimaru, I appreciate what you said, even if Plague might not. I was somewhat prepared to go for a Hori anyway... but... I just needed convincing. Saying that wouldn't be fair to Plague for a prospective sale, but it wouldn't be fair to me if people told me they favored the ASCII to make business, either. We should put the games first over money; at least, that's how I hope to be. But are you sure there's no difference between the three types of Evolution Hori sticks I have posted up? There's been suggestion that, even if Horis are generally similar model to model, that the VF4 stick is slightly superior to the VF4E ones.

Anyone: Of all the sticks I have up, is the original Virtua Fighter 4 stick the best one, you think? (With apologies to Plague.)

Sorry for how complicated this is getting, guys. I know nothing's more annoying than a n00b who won't shut up about his lame questions. I'll wrap up my stupid post eventually, I promise. >_<

 

Airaku,

Don't worry, you are not weird. I have about 10 sticks around the house, so you are perfectly normal lol.

OK,so that we dont get confused: a stick is just a box with buttons and a lever. You just use it to make moves happens.

The difference between a good stick and a bad one or a new one and a old one is: on the good stick you press something, and it happens, on the bad one, nothing happens.

even the best quality sticks will eventually need new parts, because the more you use it the less responsive it gets.

I think the switch on sanwa buttons have an average life of 100K clicks. so 100k punches or kicks, or failed spod attempts lol.

the only difference really between an average stick and a professional one is how easily you can replace the old parts.

anway, just get the VF4EVO stick, blue or red is the same, I like red better. you will know when the stick is old when you want to do a move but it will take 10 attempts to get it out!

PS: If you want my stick, and can come to Cardiff, I am happy to sell it to you.

 

No worries. Like I said. ASCII is too stiff for my tastes. I replaced them with Hori VF4:Evo sticks. Nice to know that ASCII is considered extremely durable, though.

Here's a picture of an ASCII stick.

The Hori VF4 sticks had thicker stick shafts than the VF4:Evo sticks. Some of them also wore out prematurely. There are details of that problem on this board and it will be hard to search. The date range of 4 years is not enough. The key word to search is sandpaper (I'm not joking - people were either using sandpaper to fix the VF4 stick or they said the stick motions started to sound like sandpaper after a while).

There are VF4 sticks still in use today, though. They've been gutted and modded to work with PS3/360. They may still have the original joystick, though. I'm not sure.

 

Re: New player "essentials"-console, hardware, etc.?

There was also the first Real Arcade Pro stick for PS2. The stick and buttons were green over a silver plate with a black base. I think that's the color scheme. If you can find one you might find the cost prohibitive but these are probably better than any of the others mentioned so far for the PS2 because the buttons all have quick disconnects, making swapping busted buttons out a cinch.

 

Nice points everybody! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif I still haven't reached my decision yet. >_< lol, I feel like I'm overthinking something that should be pretty basic.

I guess I'll start with sanjuroAKIRA: Hi man. Thanks for your input. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif I found an image of the Real Arcade Pro stick you are talking about here at http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-13-49-en-70-5w3.html. Wow. That thing is gorgeous. So this stick is pretty much superior to the others in every way? Not that I doubt you, but remember I'm just starting out and not that hardcore. I do want a quality stick though. I am trying to juggle my own newness to using joysticks with something I can break into well that will be continually rewarding to use as I gradually improve. I don't want a generic stick that becomes more limiting as I progress. I want quality training wheels that I can still enjoy on their own before I get to the big bikes... if that makes sense, lol. Your thoughts? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif Oh, and is the only real significant improvement of the Real Arcade Pro over both of the VF Horis that the buttons have quick disconnects like Matteo said-- "the only difference [being] how easily you can replace the old parts"?

Plague: Thank you for your understanding. /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Taking advantage of a n00b to make business must be awfully tempting for some people, and I am grateful for your fair treatment in describing the ASCIIs to me. They don't sound bad by any means, they're just not what I'm looking for (see above). I'm going to look for something else, but I still sincerely appreciate your offer. Best of luck on selling those, when and if you do. Maybe you'll want to keep them around to survive any future holocausts, lol. You're right that I can't seem to find any mention of sandpapering the VF4 sticks here on VFDC, but I have found that, according to what Shag heard, the VF4 sticks are supposedly better than the Evo. ones (see below link). Of course, you raise the point of the VF4 sticks being subject to premature wear and having a cumbersome shaft, which would make it sound like the Evo. sticks are better. Which is it, I wonder?! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif I may be splitting hairs, but I'm burning to know whether the VF4 or the Evo. Hori is superior.

Put hierarchally, would it be like this?: Real Arcade Pro Stick > VF4E Stick > VF4 Stick, or are the VF4E and VF4 swapped?

Matteo you crazy guy!: /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif You have ten sticks lying around at home? Whoa! Am I in the presence of a joystick expert? I had no idea! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Thank you for taking the time to explain the basic principles of joystick design and responsiveness for me. It's a shame that all joysticks will need to have some of their parts replaced over time, but I guess it's a fact of life, haha. A lot of what I asked sanjuroAKIRA and Plague above I would also like to ask you. To summarize, is the Pro Arcade stick's superiority only in its butons' ease of replaceability? Is the VF4 Evo. stick better than the VF4 one? (Despite Shag's post that said "quite a few people... preferred the VF4 stick over the VF4E"?) For a n00b, which of the three - Pro Arcade, VF4, or VF4E - will hold up best while starting out? Lol, sorry to be so meticulous.

Everyone: Sorry if my posts here are annoying. I'm trying my hardest to take in all this oncoming information and understand it. I need to balance, for one, the conflicting statements on whether VF4 or VF4E sticks are better (Plague says that VF4E sticks are better, Shag has said others prefer the VF4 sticks here - http://virtuafighter.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/71654/fpart/31). I also am trying to learn in-depth about other brands like ASCII and Pro Arcade that I have never heard of before. All I want is an entry-level stick with an edge to have fun. Maybe it can be simplified with the statement that if you're starting out with a stick, the VF4E is good enough, and the best you can get is the Pro Arcade? /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif Ah well, I'll figure this out soon enough!

Thanks for reading, whoever does! LOL! /forums/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif