What if Bamco made the next VF?

Discussion in 'News' started by Myke, Dec 4, 2018.

By Myke on Dec 4, 2018 at 3:10 AM
  1. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    During the Tekken World Tournament 2018 finals stream, Tekken director and producer Katushiro Harada made an interesting comment to the effect that, even if SEGA gave them the VF license and dev team, the hardcore VF community would still reject the game just by seeing the Bandai Namco on the startup screen. So, do you agree?


    Thanks to twitter user @Flying_Wonkey for the screen grab and translation:

    And a reference to the twitch stream:

    If Harada's comments about directing a new VF title sound familiar, and being aware of the likely reactions from the fanbase, that's because they should! Some months ago Harada was interviewed by HipHopGamer and was asked about integrating VF into Tekken, and he indicated that he'd much prefer the chance to direct a new Virtua Fighter game, rather than introduce characters from one franchise into the other, because the fans from either community probably wouldn't be on board with the other's game system.

    So, where do you stand on this issue? If the VF license and development team were to come across to Bamco and put in the charge of Harada, would you outright reject it, or give it an honest chance? I suppose it comes down to your willingness to trust the direction of someone like Harada given his history with Tekken. Yes, Tekken is widely popular around the world but, aesthetically, fundamentally and philosophically, the two franchises are worlds apart.

    Don't ask for him for shit... because you just might get it?! ;)
    Femto, adamYUKI, Jason Elbow and 2 others like this.


Discussion in 'News' started by Myke, Dec 4, 2018.

    1. Technocrow
      Harada certainly respects the VF franchise. If given the chance to make one himself I don't think he'd make any Tekken-like design choices while developing it. Tekken is Tekken, VF is VF. People flock to one game or another out of what they expect out of a series. That being said, he obviously knows that a VF game needs to play like VF for fans to be pleased.
      Combolammas likes this.
    2. JCnextinc
      Tekken took the bounce mechanics. They've always been late and copy SEGA's vf every time.(or tried..). ^^.
      FS combos are the most clever deep combos in all fighting games.
      The only combos that you have to watch out interrupt and adapt regarding situations space effects etc..
      PurpGuy and Talchild like this.
    3. Tricky
      I'd be fine with this.
      GustavoHeisenberg likes this.
    4. GustavoHeisenberg
      As long as he understands that Virtua Fighter doesn't do footsies and that it's a read-heavy game with counters at every opportunity, I'd be happy with it. Above all sexier characters would be the perk he brings.

      I wouldn't wait for the dogshyte story mode to laugh about.

      Although part of me will remain sad because the areas I believe the next Virtua Fighter could innovate on - visually looking more like an action film in motion (ie without juggles but instead natural looking superior animation + combos).
    5. Myke
      Probably because a VF fans aren't as informed on the Tekken series as, say, Tekken fans are, but wasn't Tekken the first fighting game to implement an attack system based on left and right limbs? Unblockables? 10-hit strings (FWIW)? :)
      PurpGuy and BLACKSTAR like this.
      Ya got me there
    7. EmpNovA
      VF5FS is more like Tekken than it is VF3 or VF4. Extreme emphasis on juggle combos for damage instead of rewarding throws, striking attacks, defensive techniques, hit throws, delayed santaku, and so on. VF4 had so many ways to score huge damage. Whereas VF5FS seems too oriented and focused around juggle combos and occasional guard breaks. This is very similar to Tekken where juggle combos and juggle set up moves can dominate over throws or striking attacks and pokes. This is fine if you like long combos. But if you like the established VF gameplay style of VF3-VF4 then VF5FS is most likely alienating.

      VF5FS has combos that are very long and have high number of hits compared to previous games. A six or seven hit combo was very rare in VF4 as a staple combo, but now they are only staple, which is very Tekken like. Long combos were in the older VF games where you could juggle with endless jabs into an ending move. But they feel out of place after playing VF4FT where 3-4 hit combos were almost all you would see. And those 3-4 hit combos were very quick. And just like Tekken the long combos are very easy to land aside from a handful of super difficult variations. Max damage combos are not challenging execution wise or not rewarding to attempt compared to a basic combo that does similar damage. In VF4 often the max damage combos were beyond difficult to set up and execute. And they were still short at only a few hits. And beyond that the animations were also shorter. In VF5FS you have more hits in the combos combined with slower animations. Amplifying the speed difference in gameplay to the point where it seems lots of VF4 era players are not thrilled with VF5FS.

      Then you have the simplification of the throw system and the overall slower speed of the game including significantly larger input windows compared to VF3 and VF4, and the game feels sluggish and unresponsive compared to VF4. When I play VF4FT and then play VF5FS I simply cannot enjoy playing VF5FS at all because of how underwater everything feels. It is too jarring to play VF5FS when you have played so much VF4EVO/FT. Reducing matchup and game knowledge to homogenize the entire cast into three throw directions. Did anyone in the VF community really want these changes?

      In VF4 a lot of characters could be played like a grappler even though they were not pure grapplers. Kage had TFT (b) and Fugasumi (d) for large damage but also three other directions (f, df, n) and the frankensteiner (uf, inescapable) and the stance throw. So many options that opened his game up for creative players. Akira was very much the same way. Where if you could land single palm into double palm after his down throw you could have a dangerous move in your arsenal that was not open to players with weaker execution. Or land some of his elbow and double palm setups after his other throws that left opponents standing. Lots of top Kage and Akira players in VF4 played them like they were grapplers and heavily went for throws. Whilst others went in the more conservative direction and looked for striking attacks with Kage or SDE/palm setups with Akira. There was room for so many styles of play for each character in VF4FT.

      I just feel like all of this creativity is lost in VF5FS.

      Ever seen Harada play Tekken? Probably everyone in this thread could beat him just using VF knowledge alone. He's a promoter. Not a game designer and likely not even a player of Tekken even casually. Same with Ono who was a sound recorder who wound up being the head face of the SF franchise and yet cannot even play SFII the most basic of SF games. Harada is just a PR employee and not someone who can actually play Tekken if you have ever seen him struggle to even move around the stage.

      Could VF vs Tekken be fine? Sure. But letting the Tekken team make VF6 would be a joke. I would rather see the VF2 or VF4 teams brought back or Yu Suzuki brought back. Tekken has never really innovated anything and mostly just lifts their mechanics from other franchises. Now they literally lift characters from other franchises and are turning into some sort of Smash game with guest characters.

      Personally I would just want VF Collection. Give me VF3 HD and VF4FT HD and then go from there.
      PurpGuy and BLACKSTAR like this.
    8. Myke
      Be that as it may, I think the underlying question is that whatever direction taken or innovations produced by the Tekken series over its evolution, are these sufficient enough to excite you? To give you confidence that Harada would do a faithful job? The response from yourself, @ShinyBrentford (and others) is a clear "no!"

      If this hypothetical did not include the original dev team, then I wouldn't hesitate in joining the chorus of no's. This is just my personal opinion, but nothing in the Tekken series has ever excited, appealed to, nor impressed, me. But(!) since this hypothetical does include the original dev team and if we're to assume Harada would respect the original vision, direction and philosophy of VF, then I'd be willing to give it a shot and not, as he claims, reject it at the start-up screen.
      Tricky, PurpGuy, BLACKSTAR and 4 others like this.
    9. MadeManG74
      Final Showdown is like the limit of what I can accept in combo length. I wouldn't mind it cut down a little bit, but I am thankful it's considerably less than what I see in Tekken combos, and the setups for Tekken combos etc.
      Tricky and PurpGuy like this.
    10. ShinyBrentford
      I can't wait for the Akira's redesign. Tribal tats, trenchcoat, chain belt, and devil eyes. He's going to be edgy as fuck.
      PurpGuy, ToyDingo and MadeManG74 like this.
    11. ShinyBrentford
      The tekken community reads this forum. Just look at the when's VF6 thread.
    12. Jason Elbow
      Jason Elbow
      Its a precarious situation. On one hand we have Tekken a 3d game that still uses scrolling backgrounds like it still 1996. Then we have VF. A partical technological marvel when ever it releases but hasnt had a update in over 6 years. I dont like Harada getting his greasy paws on VF and making it the basard son of Tekken. There are a LOT of shit I hate about Tekken.
      JCnextinc, beanboy and PurpGuy like this.
    13. Adamay
      I have a huge respect for the work of Harada he may be "only a PR man" but what he managed to do for the Tekken brand is amazing. Everybody knows what Tekken is. The support and constant communication with the community are the key of their success.

      This is why VF needs someone like him or Ono or Sakurai. People who can bring hype beyond the borders of the FGC and be in constant touch with them. You can call them clowns. That what they do is cringe-worthy or a circus for the fans and media but this is fundamental to make VF a global force in the world of gaming today that is so connected to the internet. And to be honest me personally love the hype fests it's like being a kid all over again.

      I understand the fears and skepticisms from the hardcore fans that have been playing VF for years. Be him or whoever I just want to see a VF that the world deserves that is true to it's roots. I hope they understand this.
      PurpGuy likes this.
    14. ToyDingo
      Why would we make that assumption?

      Harada is a hype man that wants to sell games. It's easy to sell a game that is visually appealing like Tekken. But something like VF is going to be difficult if you don't add some flare to it.

      How easily would Harada make the decision to add in comeback mechanics, outlandish character designs, or top heavy females. If it makes the crowd hype, he'll atleast consider it. Which, on it's face isn't a bad thing, but how much of the VF system would we have to sacrifice for that?

      Tekken is a fun game, albeit with a few annoyances. So, hypothetically speaking, whatever game Harada makes with the VF license would atleast be entertaining. But would it be VF? I doubt it.
      PurpGuy likes this.
    15. Technocrow
      Thoughts on this seem to be pretty divided. It would be cool to see a poll on the subject given the hypothetical.
      PurpGuy likes this.
    16. Myke
      Because I felt it was implied by Harada's original comment. That is, everything would be identical except the company logo. But if it makes you feel any better, I could rephrase that as "If **I** was to assume Harada would respect the original vision..." because that's the primary condition on which I wouldn't flat-out say no to the idea.
      GustavoHeisenberg and PurpGuy like this.
    17. Tricky
      Well, I'll just say Namco did a good job helping Nintendo with the last two version of Super Smash bros and they haven't lose their identity. I dare say they've been the best versions ever made. So I see no reason why his crew couldn't pull off a similar feat with SEGA/AM2.
    18. Sebo
      Considering that FS is probably my least favorite VF since vanilla 5, could it really get worse? Why not? It's not like SEGA is gonna make it.

      Get outside more.
    19. GustavoHeisenberg
      Lol sorry you must live in fuglyville, or have no taste, or are probably unattractive enough to lower your standard to those levels.

      And also VF5FS is my favourite, much better and less clunkier than vanilla 5. The games that came before it are just untouchable for me, maybe you old folks love your nostalgia.
      JCnextinc likes this.
    20. GustavoHeisenberg
      You know the smart money says Harada-san would make the game sell like hot cakes, regardless of whatever the game is.

      The hardcore VF fans are are tiny tiny minority of all VF fans, and that's excluding VF players in general. So when the hype-machine says Harada-san is out to pimp-out failing rival franchise to make it great like it never was - the Tekken fans (both crossover VF and pure Tekken fans) are simply enough for him to rack in the profits.
      PurpGuy likes this.

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