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VF5:FS Defensive Technique Compendium

Discussion in 'Dojo' started by Strider786, Sep 5, 2014.

Page 2 of 4
  1. Strider786

    Strider786 Well-Known Member

    What exactly do you use OMs for? I know you can do one as your opponent tech rolls to maintain ring positioning to an extent. I also know if your opponent freezes up behind their guard you can OM and buffer an attack to hit them from the side. I know they can be used in combos. Are there anymore situations to use an OM?

    I've never heard of this one! What exactly does it do and how do you do it?
     
    Strider786, Sep 8, 2014
    #21
  2. Combolammas

    Combolammas Sheep

    Offensive evade cancel does not mean offensive move, as far as I know. It's the act of using a dash at advantage to lose that said advantage and then do an evade.
    I don't use this so I don't fully comprehend the uses of the technique but it does allow you to evade abare as you normally can't evade moves from advantage. If the evade fails because they are moving or holding G or something then you can cancel your own evade and attack again. There's a whole thread on this somewhere in the dojo general topics.

    Fuzzy OS is probably that thing I sometimes use. It was a lot better back in vanilla 5 with clash but it's still kinda useful.
    Basically you do a CD fuzzy, cancel it with G and then do an attack, launch preferable if your char has a good one for it (faster is easier).
    What it does is it fuzzies under the throw and like usual you guard the mid. If they do a throw instead you whiff punish it.
    It works because you are naturally pressing the G for the fuzzy and your launch does not come out if the opponent attacks. The catch is that this only works on if the opponent uses fast attacks. If they do a slow one then you are not in blockstun to prevent your own attack and you get CH'd.
     
    Combolammas, Sep 8, 2014
    #22
    Strider786 likes this.
  3. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    Exactly. It is all about using blockstun to prevent your attack to happen even if you press it. It is risky because of slower attacks (you waste cca 15-16 frames and THEN you attack) but it is good for anyone who have slow reactions yet plays versus opponent who follow the "rules".
    Yeah
    http://virtuafighter.com/threads/offensive-evade-cancels-and-you.17064/
    The point basically is you beat all "high level" answers your opponent may do; the downside is you lose to like every "lame" answer your opponent may come with.
    Still, if you are avare about this technique, you can see like every single top japanese player to use it at least here and there.
     
    Unicorn, Sep 8, 2014
    #23
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  4. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    As promised, here's a guide on Side Fuzzy Guarding (with Side Throw Escape) as described by the Arcadia article. I've added a bit extra by way of showing you what happens when you're side turned and you decide to either Guard, Evade, Crouch or Attack against the Opponent's Punch, Mid attack or Throw. As you'll see, none of the basic defensive techniques above will protect you against all three options.

    But that's where the Side Fuzzy Guard comes in!

     
    Myke, Sep 8, 2014
    #24
    Modelah, MakiLeSushi, VFnumbers and 11 others like this.
  5. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    Unicorn, Sep 8, 2014
    #25
    Strider786 likes this.
  6. Ytpme_Secaps

    Ytpme_Secaps Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Jami San
    Absolutley essenstial thread, many players I have come in contact with do not know much about theses major def. tech. This will help level up all those who wish to :)

    p.s. Uni , did my shoutbox post have anything to do with this thread creation?, Cuz I was just talking about how good it would be to compile the major D's in one location...Good Job !
     
    Ytpme_Secaps, Sep 8, 2014
    #26
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  7. Strider786

    Strider786 Well-Known Member

    Lol why are you asking uni for, I made the thread! I didn't see or know about your message on shoutbox. What actually made me want to compile the major D's in one place (LOL) was @MakiLeSushi 's status saying that he incorporated ECD into his play and that defense is as important as offense, which made me consider how little I know on the subject of defense in VF and that led to the birth of this thread. So.. thanks Maki! :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
    Strider786, Sep 8, 2014
    #27
    Ytpme_Secaps and MakiLeSushi like this.
  8. Ytpme_Secaps

    Ytpme_Secaps Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Jami San
    hehe, neat. Great Idea.
     
    Ytpme_Secaps, Sep 8, 2014
    #28
  9. Ytpme_Secaps

    Ytpme_Secaps Well-Known Member

    XBL:
    Jami San
    Question on Side Fuzzy (Gret Vid Myke )...

    Is there a reason to avoid using 33~g as a side fuzzy, in the vid , you do 2g~TE, (right?)

    anyway, what would be the advantage/disadvantage to using 33g instead?
     
    Ytpme_Secaps, Sep 8, 2014
    #29
    Strider786 likes this.
  10. Combolammas

    Combolammas Sheep

    33G as sidefuzzy gets tagged by mids. It does avoid the jab - probably for the same reason 2G avoids the jab - as crouching immediately transports you to crouch under high attacks.

    For anything else however the 3 frame penalty applies and your CD starts 3 frames late. The vid has the usual sidefuzzy situation of -9 ST. In this situation using 33G can be hit by mids up to 18f (-9 + -3 from ST penalty + -6 from minimum CD).

    Using 2G you don't put yourself at that risk. The only thing needed to crouch is under the UB then return to yutori.
     
    Combolammas, Sep 8, 2014
    #30
    Ytpme_Secaps and Strider786 like this.
  11. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
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    Myke623
    @Strider786 great work in pulling this guide together. It's a perfect example of someone showing initiative in collating information, even when they themselves aren't admittedly knowledgeable in the the subject matter.

    If you don't mind, I'd like to add this post into the wiki if you consider it more-or-less complete?
     
    Myke, Sep 8, 2014
    #31
    Strider786, Modelah and BLACKSTAR like this.
  12. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    In regular front-facing Fuzzy Guarding, the reason for crouching (or crouch dashing) is to duck under a throw, right?

    However, the side turn situation is different in the sense that you'll never duck the throw because you're at -9 for crying out loud! :D So in this situation, the purpose of crouching has nothing to do with the throw attempt, and is there purely to duck the high attack that would be otherwise guaranteed if you simply held [G] or tried to Evade.

    Now since a regular hold-down [2_] is sufficient to duck a 12f standing punch when you're between -9 and -11 (because at -12 and beyond, the attack is truly guaranteed) then there's no reason to crouch faster.
     
    Myke, Sep 8, 2014
    #32
    Strider786 likes this.
  13. Darksoul173

    Darksoul173 Well-Known Member

    PSN:
    Darksoul173
    About side fuzzy i'd recommend doing 2~7\2~9G(+P)
    First cause i find it easier (but that's might be just me) and 2nd cause you're turning 1 frame faster

    Also don't forget that at -9 ST 2P becomes unblockable
     
    Darksoul173, Sep 8, 2014
    #33
    MarlyJay likes this.
  14. Strider786

    Strider786 Well-Known Member

    @Myke Sure you can put this up on the wiki! It will be the best place for it.

    I assume a copy will be put on the wiki, will I still be able to edit the information of that copy from time to time with new stuff I find and make changes and/or additions?
     
    Strider786, Sep 9, 2014
    #34
  15. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    @Strider786, absolutely, and I'll give you permission to maintain the copy on the wiki as well.
     
    Myke, Sep 9, 2014
    #35
    Strider786 likes this.
  16. Strider786

    Strider786 Well-Known Member

    BTW @Myke was that a strider cosplay in the video? If it was i will follow you forever :D
     
    Strider786, Sep 9, 2014
    #36
  17. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    Not intentionally! But I love Strider! ;)
     
    Myke, Sep 9, 2014
    #37
    Strider786 likes this.
  18. Myke

    Myke Administrator Staff Member Content Manager Kage

    PSN:
    Myke623
    XBL:
    Myke623
    While reviewing the original post in preparation for creating the relevant wiki page(s), I started out by listing all the techniques covered so far, and noticed that some of these are already covered in the wiki (general wiki ref: Throw Escape Techniques), while a couple aren't actual "defensive" techniques:

    • Guard Throw Escape
    • Evade Throw Escape
      • I wouldn't bother listing at all!
    • Evade Throw Escape Guard
    • Reversal Throw Escape
    • Fuzzy Guard
    • Crouch Dash Fuzzy Guard
    • Side Fuzzy Guard Throw Escape
    • Evade Crouch Dash Cancel
    • Evade Dash Cancel
    • Evade Throw Escape Dash Cancel
    • Evade Throw Escape Crouch Dash Cancel
    • Stagger Escape
    • Struggling after Knock Down
    • Reverse Nitaku
    • Kick Guard Cancel
    • Crouch Dash Fuzzy Guard Whiff Throw Punish
    • Offensive Evade Cancel
      • Not really a "defensive technique", but more of a second-level offensive technique.
    • Offensive Move
      • Not a "defensive technique"

    So, I'm trying to figure out how to best present all of this in the wiki.

    One idea might be to only document the basic GTE and ETEG techniques under the "Throw Escape Techniques", and cover the others under a new section titled Defensive Techniques?

    And for the techniques already documented in the wiki, perhaps they can be reviewed and updated with any supplementary info gained from this thread?

    I'd be keen to hear anyone's thoughts on this. Otherwise, I'll just do what I feel like :)
     
    Myke, Sep 10, 2014
    #38
    Riskbreak, Strider786 and MakiLeSushi like this.
  19. Modelah

    Modelah Well-Known Member VFDC Translator Content Manager Taka

    PSN:
    Modelah
    Awesome thread @Strider786, and props to @Myke and all who contributed. There's still heaps I don't know enough about the game it seems!

    BTW, does Taka's weight/general slowness factor make any difference here? I think I read somewhere that his crouch is 1 frame slower than everyone else but I'm not sure how correct that is.
     
    Modelah, Sep 10, 2014
    #39
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  20. Unicorn

    Unicorn Well-Known Masher Content Manager Wolf

    PSN:
    unicorn_cz
    XBL:
    unicorn cz
    You can not fuzzy at -3 but only at -2 with taka. You can not crouchdash fuzzy at -5, but at -4 only with Taka.
    Basically means that except after blocking enemy P / eating their PK you can not fuzzy in any general situation :D
     
    Unicorn, Sep 10, 2014
    #40
    Strider786 likes this.
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